Thought it would be interesting to a lot of people reading these iris threads to break the complete
plant down into individual parts and have one of the serious amateur/professional growers take a
part and give a description of form and function. There are lots of questions asked, some of which
become lost in picture presentations etc.
I chose SPATHE since there were some questions and explanations on other threads. Just happens
some of my oldies are about to bloom. They have a different spathe than the newer irises.
To me, in simple terms, the spathe is the covering of the bloom before it expands into the beginning
of a blossom.
Spathe of an old noid I have planted in a temp bed.
This message was edited Apr 29, 2009 7:54 PM
Iris class
Thanks Rose, I think people will learn a lot from you.
http://leticia.smugmug.com/1222403_uHtX8#57316497_jMUXY
REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM
The link above was posted by a DG member, zacattack, on other threads for hybridizing irises.
All the average gardener needs to know about the subject. Probably one of the better sources
without getting into complicated technical issues.
Click onto the link and select 'Iris hybridizing'.
This message was edited Apr 30, 2009 6:34 AM
Do you know about when the Spathe changed from white to green? I was just curious when that was bred in to the iris.
Sorry don't know that. BEV
As I understand, historics are merely irises more than 30 years old. I became interested
in circa 1930 and older irises due to their differences in appearance from the more modern
cultivars. As far as changes in spathes, I have no idea of a time frame. I suspect it is
more from differences in original species and not from cultivars.
I began this thread hoping some of the truly expert members would pass along their
particular knowledge in an organized fashion rather than random Q&A's on the regular
threads.
Please do not get off the discussion. The reference to random q&a's was they become
lost in exhibiting pictures and discussing vendors. Asking a question prompts an answer
and we all learn. The thread is just to keep them all together. The reference to "experts"
was to mean there are some very knowledgeable members on the forum.
If you are interested in the older irises, I may have some you would like when I dig mine
in late June/early July.
I'll Take the Haft
You will hear or read a lot of people calling an iris Hafty
this refers to the lines on the fall below and next to the beard or the haft area.
Many are trying to eliminate these lines
These lines are like the landing zone for bees, the more distint the lines the more they are attractive to bees.
They are on all iris though some you can not see becasue of shape of falls, Style arm placement etc.
Sorry Rose that I took things the wrong way. I don't know why in the world that I did. I am not like that. Right now I am going ninety mile an hour and can't stop. So much to do and keep up with. I am very interested in the parts of the Iris and naming all mine. We may make a trade. Just dmail me. Thanks all for any info. I will stay. HUGS BEV
avmoran, You are very knowledgable. Thanks BEV
avmoran, Do you mind if I print off your graph for my own use? BEV
Nope
Thank you so much. BEV
i look for hafty iris that is one of my favorite parts .i hope it dosnt get bred out
This message was edited Apr 30, 2009 8:39 PM
There will always be flowers with haft markings--some can be pleasing & others ugly. The multitude of iris colors is one of the attractions.
For those who cannot bear to tear a new blossom apart, a couple of pics of the only two
oldies blooming for me at this time. The veining on the falls is one of the items I look for
in the heirloom irises I am trying to collect. The narrow hafts appear to be one of the
signatures of a lot of the pre-1940 irises.
Thank you. That is something for me to look for. I have some people arround this area that are going to give me some oldies. BEV
Keep the info coming guys. I find this stuff so interesting.
Need more participants with knowledge of individual parts of the iris.
CLASSIFICATION: Bearded irises are classified according to the height of the bloom stalk.
Miniature dwarf bearded
Standard dwarf bearded
Intermediate bearded
Miniature tall bearded
Border bearded
Tall bearded
I did not enter the different size ranges because there are some slight differences in exact
measurements. There are a couple of internet sites with the information.
www.irisgarden.org
www.kcis.org (click 'all about iris' then 'bearded classification') has info on beardless also
I should have added "also by size of bloom or blossom" to classification.
While we have all of the above classes, our largest number is in standard dwarfs. They are starting to bloom & I trot out with my garden log in the morning & throughout the day, especially on sunny days to see when they bloom & location in the garden.
Thank you Oldgardenrose for starting this topic. Tough to have a discussion, or understand what you are reading without the right language. I found much confusing at first, but the more you see/read, the more sense it makes. 'Haft' has always been an interesting discussion in the historic garden - I'll take that one on....
HAFT
In the 1925 Cornell Extension Bulletin #112 is a diagram of the Structure of the Iris Flower of which I am posting a portion of. The front-most fall was removed to see this part better.
As the botanical word it is, the haft it is the thin portion that attaches the blade of the fall to the perianth tube. The claw is the corresponding thin portion attaching the blade of the standard to the perianth tube. You would only be able to see them from the side, or from above with the standards held open. To really look it is easier to remove the petal.
Keep in mind that named cultivars at the turn of the 19th-20th century were only several generations away from species; that there was as much, if not more interest and familiarity in non-bearded such as Siberian; and that the language was botanical rather than that of garden lay-persons. So when reading early descriptions, at the least pre-1930's, most likely the true parts were being discussed. References to ‘haft markings’ meant marks on the thin haft (and/or possibly claw), as more readily seen on the historic Siberians. Quite early on, any use of the word claw phased out, and you might see a reference noting 'red-brown marks on haft of fall, as well as of standard'.
Intermittently in the catalogs of the 1940's-50's, blooms would be described with shoulder marks or haft marks extending down a third or half of the fall, or simply called marks - generally extolling how few there were when well into the 1950's. In this period, we see pictures with the haft arrow pointing to the shoulder of the top of the falls in a number of catalogs. Essentially we gardeners (or a few iris growers?) had in fact reassigned the haft to that area which we at one time referred to as the shoulder. No wonder the question of 'where is the haft' causes a bit of confusion!
I think this was reinforced with the maniacal intent to do away with any 'haft marks' as they were thought to distract. Granted, I guess if 80% of the iris you see have haft marks extending onto the shoulder and many are blended colors or plicata, the new and different look would be solid self-colored irises. Funny that a trend is starting to return to shoulder marks - oh sorry... haft marks.
While the haft is the haft elsewhere, we iris folk point to the top-most portion of the fall and have emphatically called it the haft for at least 60 years! This is an area where common-garden-language-error trumps botanical-correctness. I doubt it will self correct. But really, would it be so hard to think 'shoulder marks' - it would make life easier in the long run. As language is always evolving - we'll see. The important thing is that we all use the same definition.
So while I know where the haft IS, I also know how the word is applied in earlier segments of iris history as compared to later/current eras.
hespiris
Just another reason I love DG! All of the great information that is shared. You are all a gift to us that are just learning.
Thank you all so much!
Hespiris--excellent presentation. It helps to have some background info. I checked
Schreiner's CE catalog insert for how to grow iris and in the terms section it listed:
Haft: Top part of falls to either side of beards.
Shoulder: Same as haft.
Need someone to explain the rhizome and roots.
The rhizome is what stores the food for the iris to grow and form roots. It will resemble to some a potatoe tuber with roots already growing on one side. Now the big thing is to remember that iris like to have a part of the rhizome exposed to the sun and one of the best visual on this is to think of a swan gliding on the lake, the fan is the neck, the rhizome it is the body and the roots are the feet...
Roots, all of them die every year, they are basically an anchor for most of the year, then just before or right after bloom they will grow again and search for food and feed the rhizome.
I know many of you think you need nice long fresh roots but back in the 40's I am told my the old time growers and hybridizers that they used to cut off all the roots totally or give them a shave and then ship. Less weight and they all die any way. I personally like some to serve as an anchor but if I get ones with none that is OK too, just plant and they will grow.
Hope this helps
D
oldgardenrose: exquisite pictures. That gold veining is gorgeous. I am ready to maybe dismantle some blossoms to see what wonders are inside.
Thanks
Bump!!!
Surely there is more to learn.
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