SIB?

Do you or anyone you know use this on SIB's?

This information I found on-line.

A 10% solution of Murphy's Oil Soap (one part soap for every nine parts water) can be used as an organic alternative to Cygon.

Thanks

What problem are you having with the sibs?

I've heard of soap as an alternative for some chemicals, but normally sibs have no insect problems. Normally no foliage problems either. If there is a problem it's normally thrips, but I've never had those. Thrips cause a rust color to develop on leaves. They can also get borers, but it's very unusual.

If you have a problem with thrips and wish to be biologically safe, I would use neem oil, or insecticidal soap.

pollyk,
Last season my SIB's looked great then the buds didn't open or they looked awful when they did. Thought maybe it was Iris Bud Fly.

Thanks

You're welcome. Problems with sibs are few, luckily, but they can have problems, for sure.

Iris Bud Fly? Possible. If it was Iris Bud Fly you would have most probably noticed a gradual (over the years) problem, not a huge problem all at once. The Iris Bud Fly larva looks like a small maggot, and is about 1/4 inch long, so they are quite noticeable. The Bud Fly leaves eggs on the irises, (and does like siberians), and then from the eggs you get the worm. The worm eats the reproductive parts of the iris, and the blooms rot, and look shredded.

Did you see any worms on the irises (did you look?)? If so, that could be your problem. If not, and the problem happened to the irises all at once, I would more think it was weather related. (I assume from your post you don't use Round Up around them.)

Late freezes or severe drought could cause the problem you're describing. If so, the problem probably won't occur again this year, and you won't have to do anything.

If it does sound like the Iris Bud Fly, I would use insecticidal soap, and as the Bud Fly is active in the iris buds, as soon as you see any damage to the buds, look for the worms, and destroy any buds with the worms in it.

If it is Bud Fly they crawl down into the spathes after the buds open and pupate later in the summer, overwinters as a pupa, then hatches in the spring as a fly and it starts all over again.

Good morning polly,
Wow, so much to think about! I didn't notice any worms last season, but I didn't know what to look for. Maybe I just over looked them?? No I don't use Round up in the garden. Sometimes to clear ground of invasive weed or poison ivy. My grandchildren are in and out my gardens. I don't want to have to worry about what they touch. This is a photo one SIB, maybe you can see the holes. I'll see what else I have for pic's. I didn't take many because they looked awful.
Thanks for your help.

to me that looks like a temp change while the flower was opening...Polly, Pirl. Boojum am I correct?

As this is what I get with no bugs or things I can use in the garden

D

I don't think that looks like Bud Fly damage. I would guess weather related, along with Dee. But more pictures would help.

Insecticidal soap is pretty benign, if you want to spray preventively.

Okay this is what I have.

Another.

There is a fly on this one.

This is what some of them looked like. Just got brown and didn't open at all.

This message was edited Apr 23, 2009 6:02 PM

I really think weather damage, but I can't be sure. Consider the insecticidal soap, and see if you see any worm this year on the buds. The ones that opened actually look pretty normal. And the buds that dried up are usually from a late freeze or a drought.

okay, insecticidal soap. Any special kind? Should I start as soon as they come up or wait?

Acid rain makes holes & then there is orthacheda which is a fly. Have to destroy the blossoms with those worms, I mean really destroy. Marty & Jan have put yellow sticky labels out & catch them. they remove them when the butterflies get active.

Oh my!! This is sounding worst by the moment! Maybe SIB's aren't so nice after all??

Don't give up--siberians enhance the garden

It's not very common in sibs, and that is the Bud Fly you're speaking of (ortahcheta). I have never had it, and I grow 100s of sibs. I would use Safer, or some equivalent, they do kill maggots. And use it when the new leaves are up about 4-6 inches.

I think they are beautiful! After seeing Dunlop, Cole, & White's gardens I was hooked! It's like looking at beautiful paintings.

I have to still say it is weather caused...
But if you feel better then safer soap I use because of shipping overseas.

D

I think weather too, Dee, but I'm a little confused by the holes in the flowers. That does indicate some bug damage.

Thanks for all the help!

Bonnie,

The May 2008 Maine Iris Society Newsletter has an article on what to do for the iris bud fly problem that is in Maine. It is by Jeff Dunlop.

I have not been affected until last summer and believe me nothing is really left of the bloom except the falls. The grub eats the reproductive parts first because siberian anthers and styles are it's preferred food source.

Grub is 1/8" to 1/4" long is white with black on one end. When it first enters the bud there will be a small pin hole about 1/32" in diameter through thr spathe of the terminal bud.

Usually the tiny entry hole goes undetected as the larva feeds inside the developing bud. It will feed right up until day of bloom using the falls as cover before the bud opens.

The source of Jeff's article is Dr. Currier McEwens' book 'The Siberian Iris', at the time of bloom or about the time of bloom the maggot makes it's way down into the spathes where it pupates and remains over winter. This is why you cut and get rid of the spathes in Sept or Oct. Now if you do not cut the old stuff off and dispose of it not to spread the bug accidentally, it emerges the following spring and the adult fly begins the cycle all over again in july in our area. Often but not always the grub can be seen eating when the flower opens. Destroy if you find it.

In Massachusetts this pest was first spotted in the 1970's but it is now here in Maine, arrived in 1995. Destroyed Jeff Dunlop's gardens for two years before he decided to use an insecticide for he is a serious breeder of siberians.

He says most would prefer to use organic methods to deal with the budfly but they are not very effective if you mean to breed siberians. Contact insecticides only kill things until it rains and only on the outside of the iris plants.

To really kill the budfly you need a systematic insecticide. It works because the sytematics are absorbed by the plant tissues over time after treatment and it protects the plant about eight weeks after application, rain or no rain the grub inside dies when it trie to eat the plant. Some are very dangerous and must be used very carefully like what Jeff Dunlop and Dean Cole used called Cygon 2E( dimethoate).

Merit is a tad safer is in granular form and can be sprinkled on the plants needing it very early in the season if you intend to kill the grub in the same bloom season. The granules and pellets are safer, more user friendly than spray form and water is needed to activate them.

I am being forced to use this form this year and have already applied some before this last rain storm. Both my Siberians and Japanese irises got wrecked last year and I need to take photos for the HIPS ID Photo Gallery. I got mine at a local greenhouse called Skillins in Brunswick, Maine.

We will see what happens.

Hope this helps basically quoted from the Newsletter I mentioned earlier and my experience is added.

Julianna

Julianna thank you. It doesn't sound like soap & water are going to do much if it is the Bud Fly. So if you spray this year, will your SIB's be back to normal or will it take years?

I still don't think it looks like the extensive damage the Bud Fly causes. It's my understanding the bloom opens and then is decimated. As Mainer said, leaving only the falls. The standards are shredded, and what buds don't open are rotted, not just dried up.

Obviously it's a serious problem, but yours still looks like weather damage to me.

If you are willing to use chemicals protectively, I would use a systemic.

Thanks I hope you are correct!

I think using a systemic will clear up my problem for it only started last year. I thought the sprays in my area too dangerous for I live in a windy area. Sprinkling a systemic lessens the danger of other plants I do not want to have it getting it. I would never eat chives for instance if they are growing where I used a insecticide. The veggies need to be in a seperate area from my siberians and ensatas.

We will see this year if it helped. I might have some photos of the damage and if I do I will post it.

Julianna

Good Luck Julianna.

Since Mainer has the damage from Bud Fly, what is your opinion on what Hooked has, does it look like Bud Fly damage to you? I would like to see any photos you have, so I will know in the future. As I sell the sibs it would be great info for me. Thanks.

Goes here too

D

acid rain makes tiny pin holes, is that what she has?

She does have the holes, Lucy, so that could be what it is, but she also has some discoloration on the blooms. I'm just not really sure. I thought weather related, as did Dee, and you're thinking acid rain, which it could very well be. But apparently she's in an area that does have the Iris Bud Fly problem, and I would hate to tell her it's just weather related if she should be using a systemic insecticide for the Bud Fly.

Does anyone know if the Imidacloprid works for the Iris Bud Fly? I would think so, and that's pretty benign as far as chemicals go. Bayer Grub Control. The same that's used for the iris borer.

There could be both the insect problem & the acid rain--sort of a double dip situation. I forget what Marty & Jan do for orthocheata--probably a e-mail would be a good idea.

Found some pics with the budfly damage and will post them tomorrow. Need to sort out the one that actually had the budfly worm from the rest. I did not take many pics for I was avoiding it for picture taking. I did use Raid and sprayed after every rain storm when I first found out there were bugs in my irises but that was in 2007 and I did not get the May 2008 Maine Iris Society article until it was too late to do anything except cut the debris in the fall. Did not devestate all my siberians but was attacking only Ruffled Velvet, Percheron, Sparkling Rose and Orville Fay. Most looked fine but one bloom or two would be damaged. I hope to stop this before it starts this year.

Julianna

Okay this is a really small worm poking out of the spathe. Look to the left lower part of the pic to see it and it is white with black on the end.

This is Ruffled Velvet it is attacking.

Julianna

This is Orville Faye missing it's parts.

Oops Shaker's Prayer got hit too.

Now because I used Raid it did not devestate my whole clump but this is what my damage looked like in that clump of Shaker's Prayer. Hard to find the damaged one but if I let it go the whole clump would be devestated with more than just one or two bud worms.

This is Silver Edge minus it's parts.

Just so you do not think the clump was devestated here is the clump of Silver Edge a year later but still with the bud worm problem for only a few were eaten.

Raid is just not effective to getting the budworm when it is inside the flower, only outside and that is hard to see them. I am using the systematic to catch them when they try to eat this time.

I prefer organic ways most of the time but this is a big problem with all the rain we get here.

I can not do Raid or any other spray if it rains all week long or more during their budding up time.

That's all the pics for the damage. I was surprised to find one with the actual worm in the spathe, the first photo. The damage varies from small pin holes to the whole parts being eaten except for the falls.

Julianna

I've had flowers like that before. I just take them off and hand squeeze from the bottom of the flower to crush the buggers. I also look down into the rest of the stalk.