Hello, I'm looking for suggestions for very hardy Pruning Group 1 clematis that will survive (and bloom) in Louisiana. I'm also looking for a good suggestion of a nursery from which to mail order. I ordered twice from a well-known grower, but the first group of clematis arrived in dormancy and never showed any growth. Unfortunately, EVERYTHING else in my garden has begun growing vigorously at this point, but these four are still completely lifeless even after a winter of pampering. After examining further, it's apparent the root systems have withered away on all of them. The second group I ordered never arrived... so I have spots reserved in my garden for clematis to intertwine in my climbing roses, but no clematis! I've scoured our local nurseries, but they seem to only have the more flashy Pruning Group 3 cultivars. I did pick up a few of those for pots and small trellises, and my five variegated Clematis crassifolia are growing strong among the jasmine... but I would really like to fulfill my dreams of having some lovely clematis mingling with the roses.
Suggestions, please? Thanks for your help! Ev =)
Suggestions for very hardy Pruning Group 1
Ev...Brushwood..aka Gardenvines..has some wonderful pruning group 1's
http://www.gardenvines.com/shop/small-flowered-clematis-4/?zenid=f31548fafc34d816cc63d4112cfe2a03
any of the Montana's will fit the bill..just remember they can easily grow from 20+feet to 40ft.. the Alpinas and Macropetala will not grow in our zones..they need the resting cold spell/winter that our Northern compadres have and will not survive our warm climate
I have both Montana "Spooneri" & "Mayleen"
Hope this helps...Jeanne
Thanks for the suggestions, Jeanne. I checked the link and they are sold out of Mayleen and apparently do not carry Spooneri. Do you have any other suggestions re: a cultivar or perhaps a different nursery? Ev
beautiful 1's are belle of woking and veroncias choice. both hard to establish for me. easiest to establish may be duchess of edinburgh.
lucky you being in a zone that will take montanas. i love montanas. montana freda may not be as vigorous, which could be an advantage for some folks not wanting to think about how big a montana can get.
jeanne, on that note, i too have a spoonerii. doesn't bloom in my zone, but is hardy. by the time it wakes up, (always my last clem to wake up, practically May each year) the season is not warm enough, long enough to stimulate blooms. but each year i hope and let it ramble thru a viburnam (sp) hedge just for the foliage interest.
anyway , point being, i was just reading a jim fisk clematis book the other night and i spoonerii may now be thought not to be a montana. that won't help it bloom for me in my zone, but thought you would want to know. when i bought it , i bought it as a montana spoonerii, and in fact have it labeled as such. interesting, no?
Guru..don't wish to disagree with you hon but "Belle of Woking","Duchess of Edinburg" & "Veronica's Choice" are pruning group 2's not 1's...
Montana's don't do well in zones as cold as yours..
Ev...I would recommend Montana "Brewster" and "Reubens"..for wonderful pinks..."Grandiflora" is another nice one just a lighter pink...don't forget to check out JoyCreek as well..they have an extensive selection of Montanas
http://www.joycreek.com/ref-cl.htm
Guru..it's been said that it's of the "chrysocomas variety"..but it isn't an evergreen here in my zone...so I think it is of the Montana's...Jeanne
Jeanne, there are three Rubens listed on the Joy Creek site: Pink Perfection, Superba, and Tetrarose. Which do you grow? Also, the Grandiflora they have is white. Is this a different cultivar?
Again, thanks for the help! Ev
Nope..it's the same "Grandiflora" is white..with a slight pink tint..if you are wanting fragrant..it isn't fragrant..Montana "Tetarose" is to die for!!..And is fragrant..reminds me of Montana "Mayleen" which I have...they are all the same variety Montanas..If you are wanting a fragrant White then "Wilsonii" fits the bill..and what a grower it 'tis...Jeanne
Alrighty, thanks so much for the info, Jeanne! I'm off to place my orders. I found two growers who have the majority of what I want. Ev =)
Oh HOW exciting..Can't wait to see them flourishing in your gardens...Jeanne
Me too! I had already selected some from Groups 2 and 3, but I couldn't find any Group 1's locally and was at a loss without your help!
Here's what I ended up ordering:
From Joy Creek Nursery-
Clematis montana 'Grandiflora'
Clematis montana 'Rubens Pink Perfection'
Clematis montana 'Rubens Tetrarose'
Clematis montana 'Rubens Superba'
From Silver Star Vinery-
Clematis alpina 'Constance'
Clematis 'Frankie'
Clematis montana 'Wilsonii'
Clematis 'Purple Spider'
From Garden Crossings-
Clematis 'Blue Lights'
Clematis 'Climador'
Clematis 'Marie Louise Jensen'
Clematis 'Mayleen' (finally found someone with it in stock!)
Clematis 'Pink Climador'
Clematis 'Ruutel'
And here's what I could pick up some locally:
From Clegg's -
Clematis 'Hagley Hybrid'
Clematis 'Henryi'
Clematis 'Nelly Moser'
Clematis 'Niobe'
Clematis 'Rouge Cardinal'
From Naylor's -
Clematis crassifolia
Clematis 'Ernest Markham'
Clematis 'Jackmanii'
Clematis 'John Paul II'
I'm hoping these will do alright here. The local nursery pros all seemed skeptical about the possibility of a decent show from clematis in our climate, but I'll give it a try and see!
I was given the same nay-saying about bearded iris, and so far many of the cultivars are performing well. I had anticipated losing about 1/2 of the iris to rot by now due to our humidity, but I only lost about 10% total... and that was even with two hurricanes and relative neglect. =)
Again, thanks for the help! I'll post pics once they get established. Ev
This message was edited Apr 10, 2009 12:06 PM
WOW..Alpinas wont grow in our area hon..hope you are able to cancel that one..the rest seem wonderful but isn't Purple Spider an "Atragene"?..They won't grow in our warm climate either..sowwy but thought I would save you time,heartaches and money..also Macropetalas won't grow here either...Jeanne
Did I order any Macropetalas? Remember, I'm a clematis newbie! Ev
P.S. - Silver Star Nursery had listed C. alpina 'Constance' as hardy through Zone 9, so that's why I thought it would be alright. I'm zone 8b. Silver Star did list 'Purple Spider' as an atragene, but since I had no idea what that was, that description didn't deter me. Is that a problem? Here's what was written on the Silver Star site about it:
Purple Spider NEW!
An interesting Atragene that blooms profusely with the tons of fluffy darker plum-purple flowers. Often will re bloom later in the season.
Group: Atrangene
Height: 6-7’
Location: Sun
Blooms: April-May & later
Pruning Group: 1 (No Prune)
Raised By: Win Snoeijer (Holland) 1992
Zone: 4-9
Jeanne,
You are most incorrect in your statement
"the Alpinas and Macropetala will not grow in our zones..they need the resting cold spell/winter that our Northern compadres have and will not survive our warm climate"
Shitzu..you don't know what you are talking about..you are in zone 6..duh..and Ev and I are in both 8+ zones...
Here is an excerpt from Growing Clematis in Hot Climates:
"The heat, especially our hot nights, has a significant impact on which clematis can be successfully grown. When I first started to grow the atragenes (alpina and macropetala), they would do fine the first year. I was lucky if they came back the second year and none have survived into a third year. I was told that the reason they would not flourish in Atlanta was because we did not have enough cold dormancy. Our winters in Atlanta are slightly colder than they are in Portland, Oregon where atragenes do quite well. However, our summers are drastically different. 86°F ( 30°C) is the point at which plants begin suffering physiological damage from heat. The American Horticultural Society web site states: "Plant death from heat is slow and lingering. The plant may survive in a stunted or chloratic state for several years. When desiccation reaches a high enough level, the enzymes that control growth are deactivated and the plant dies." Atlanta has 90 to 120 days where the temperature is greater than 86° F while Portland has only 14 to 30 days, which are this hot." http://www.clematis.com.pl/wms/wmsg.php/1448870.html
Ah, Shirley, thanks for the explanation. That's extremely helpful! Ev =)
The Alpina varieties:
In April, particular attention should be drawn to Clematis alpina (Alpine Clematis) whose flamboyant blossoming announces the coming of the Spring. The species belongs to Ranunculaceae (the Buttercup Family) and it's a close relative to anemone, pasque-flower and hepatica, the relatedness can be easily noticed if you examine closely its flowers or leaves.
Not everyone knows that it's a mountain species native to the Alps and the Tatra Mountains, where it can be found climbing into trees and scrambling over large rocks in semi-shaded positions between the zones of upper subalpine forest and mugo pine. It is a species-conserved region so you can't pick the flowers, break the stems or dig it out of the ground. It grows up to a height of 2 - 2,5 m, attaching itself to supports by means of curling petioles, in a similar way to other clematis. In the cool mountain climate Alpine clematis doesn't blossom until June. Blue bell-shaped nodding flowers, with four petals and a central tuft of white staminodes (transformed stamens) half of the length of the petals, are borne on slender stalks on previous year's wood. Silky seedheads that follow the flowers often stay on the vine for several months and give a charming display of a billowing cloud surrounding the plant.
Clematis sibirica
Atragene Group - seedheads
- photo Sz. Marczyński
Its white-flowered variety - Clematis alpina var. sibirica (Siberian Clematis) grows in the mountains of Scandinavia and Siberia.
Clematis alpina and its Siberian variety have long been domesticated on account of its ornamental value, they are widely propagated and cultivated in nurseries, and used in gardens. In the process of selection and cross-breeding with similar species e.g.: Clematis macropetala, Clematis ochotensis or Clematis faurieri a number of cultivars in a variety of colours have been derived: blue ('Frances Rivis', 'Frankie', 'Pamela Jackman', 'Blue Bird', 'Cecile', 'Lagoon', 'Maidwell Hall' ), pink ('Pink Flamingo', 'Willy', 'Ballet Skirt', 'Jacqueline du Pré', 'Markham's Pink', 'Pointy', 'Rosy O'Grady'), mauve-pink ('Betina', 'Constance', 'Ruby'), purple ('Brunette', 'Jan Lindmark', 'Purple Spider', var. ochotensis) and white (var. sibirica, 'Albina Plena', 'Riga', 'White Swan') which belong to Atragene Group.
This message was edited Apr 10, 2009 3:21 PM
Shirley, I knew they were alpine plants, but there are actually some native alpine plants that can thrive here in Louisiana! Many of the alpine Semps perform marvelously here, but then they are also extremely hardy plants. Again, thanks for the info. =)
You're very welcome, Ev. I thought more information would be beneficial to all.
Shirley..thanks for taking the time to explain..unfortunately I was duped and told they would flourish here as well and I spent a fortune on them and they didn't survive...I just assumed telling her to not waste would be enough since we are both in similar climates...when I speak...I speak from experience and appreciate your validation gfffff...you are such a friend...hugzs to ya both...Jeanne
ps...Anenomes don't do well for me here either..I tried them in many different senarios sun and moisture wise and they just won't flourish here...Jeanne
I fully appreciated input from experienced gardeners. Especially those that truly devoted and love their flowers as I've noticed as Jeanne over the years. Thank you Jeanne for sharing your knowledge with me and others, we can learn so much from your generosity.
My knowledge is limited too; but here is mine (experience): a picture is worth a thousand words? Here is my thousand words of group 1 clematis 'Armandii'. It's evergreen in my zone, the flowers are abundant, no stray seedlings, and every year it seem to grow in beauty! Presenting my Armandii last year: (The arbor); need substantial structure to climb on. No study arbor? Build one, because you need one for this tough beauty in our Southern garden.
Lily..how beautiful..I almost bought an "Armandii" but got my Montana's instead...it is said "Armandii" can be poisonous to pets so I was too afraid to risk it ..my babies are the world to me...Jeanne
jeanne, oops got my zone's wrong. too early and not enough java!
great thread you guys, lots of info.
is there nything better in the world than clems???
Lily, that Armandii is gorgeous! Is there someplace I can check to find out definitively if it is poisonous? With three dogs and a cat, I definitely have to keep a watchful eye on the plants that are poisonous. I've got a gate between two sections of the yard and segregate those "must have" plants that would prove poisonous or extremely fragile into the area where the pets are not allowed.
Thanks for any info! Ev =)
I've 3 furbabies, this is one of them. My neighbors have cats (although, I don't see the cats outdoor during the days), and my dogs don't seem to knawl on plants but occassionally will dig up some big holes to chase amardillo, mole/voles and chipmunks ect. I've started my vines back in 2004-2005. No problems has been noticed since. Maybe some research on the plant's poisonuous is in order. I understand our concern for our pets and the environment too.
