I have been researching these two online for possibly putting on my new tuteur. The question I have is so these flowers fade into a slightly more maroon or pinky colour when grown in full sun? Some photo's I have seen them look very red and then other photo's they look like really dark pink to me.
Between the two of these which is the better flower performer?
Rouge Cardinal Niobe ?
I have to say Clematis "Niobe" is a stunner in my gardens these past 5 years!!..I must say mine is in part shade..so I can't attest to how much she fades in more sun..she loves the lighting she is getting...Jeanne
She certainly looks "red" to me in that photo. I also hear she is a great bloomer.
rouge cardinal holds color longer, but can be a smaller bloom (certainly not a small bloom, but niobe can be HUGE)
niobe can die back after a bloom period but re-establishes fast. Niobe's bloom s get larger and larger with age of plant
factors effecting the fading of a bloom, in addition to the amt of sun, are how long the bloom stays on the vine...if it lasts a long time niobe fades more than rouge cardinal. it has a more pronounced central bar and margin after being on vine a long time.
what keeps the blooms on the vine a long time is protection from wind and ground watering vs all over watering. wind and moisture on the plant effect how long the bloom lingers with out falling apart.
solution? you must grow both
i am sure i have posted this before but this is niobe about 6 years old, bloom lingered a long time...huge huge huge fading to show margins and central bar, both reflecting heritage of plant...but niobe's parentage is unknown, first raised in poland
rouge cardinal opens crimson and fades to burgundy without an obvious margin...rouge c is spawned from ville de lyon
niobe opens deep burgundy and fades to pink with pronounced margin.
based on this if you need to select one, rouge cardinal more reliable and vigorous.
you have to have both....
less faded niobe blooms, loooking more like jeannes. but this one is in full sun, and maybe older plant
rouge cardinal, once established a less fickle plant
all red colored clems are prone to ground level die back and browning, as you can see from the above photo. niobe kind of poops out and cries for pruning or prunes herself with a seasonal die back, while rouge c will just tire out at bottom. after rouge c matures and gets a few years on, not so bothersome. in a young vine without a lot of fullness, the brown bottom means bye bye, time for big pruning in my garden.
so red clems need a good front coverage plan. my niobes are behind boxwood for the most part. the rouge c is behind single peonies that i deadhead and stay green for the season.....
i take my niobes back low at least twice a year. rouge c if established i just let brown off at bottom. but first few years i whack. nothing more depressing than 1 to 4 year old clems in august, brown and browner every day, and us proudly showing them to friends....can you relate? " you should have seen this one in june"
i have one established rouge c planting (in last posting) and several that are in other places and younger. those don't get to come out unless decently behaved which never happens in late summer until they are in place a few years.
nicely behaved niobe...wow what got me cranked up? the topic of red clems..always a passionate one. esp after a 12 hour day in the office....
Thanks for all the info.....although both are gorgeous plants I think I am going to pass on these two for my tuteur.....for one I don't think the colouring is right for the area and second I sort of want it to look good from the bottom up since it will sort of just be in the middle of a long skinny garden....I won't have plants to cover that....
However thanks....at least I know now.
go for piilu
great on tuteur
Guru,
There I thought I just didn't water my unknown reds last summer but guess browning of the whole plant is what to expect?
The two are just beautiful when they bloom but you are correct, what an eyesore about August!
The past homeowners here planted these right by the main walkway too.
So pruning down is the best thing to do when the whole plant does this?
Maybe I should relocate with one of my climbing roses?
Well she certainly is one of my considerations Guru......however I am still keeping an open mind and my options open until the nurseries open and I see what they have....then if they have whatever is on my list of wants I can get right away before it disappears LOL.....Here are others I am considering if I can find them....for my tuteur that is......
Caroline
Perle D'Azure
Prince Charles
Semu
Hagley Hybrid
Piilu
Those are some that come to mind first hand - I am sure there are a few others on my list.....
can you mail order from pride of place? an amazing selection. canadian company.
drive down and take cuttings form everything if you can get them across the border.....
Hahaha Guru you are just too cute!!! I could never see myself doing that!
bonnie, cut down when it uglifies. plant nice plant in front. see what the years bring. but reds are known for brown bottoms. late summer not letting watering down can help, but odds are your reds will brown off down there.
the photo of my mature rouge cardinal shows brown at bottom even with the nice peony hedge in front of it.
plant a nice low blooming clem like hf young in front. or an henryetta...i am dying for that one and am waitlisted for it. didn't think of it til i saw carolyns on the forum, now i am lusting for it
also clematis integrefolia rosie nice in front
Dawn I'll try to make this my last questions because I don't want to take over your thread here.
Okay stupid question but when you say planting in front you are meaning to grow them together correct, one plant being in front of the other?
I can deal with the bottom turning brown but the 2 reds are growing in the same spot and both of them were toast, the whole plant.
I got a confirmation today that some of my ordered clematis were shipped so would any of these be good to plant there?
John Warren
Will Goodwin
Nelly Moser
Miss Bateman
Gypsy Queen
put shrub in front of the red clems and leave them where they are.
put a boxwood plant in front of the reds, or a spirea or even miss kim lilac if you prune to keep it in size.
john w blooms low, so does will g. good on a wall. or in container for a year or two.
don't count on vigorous growth from miss bateman....please prove me wrong. so plant it where you can give it time and not be disappointed if it is slow to establish. plant with a climbing hydrangea if you have one or want one.
gyspy and nelly look good together and do well anywhere i would think.
get ready to fall in love with john w. this one planted on a retaining wall, you can walk by it at eye level.
