I've just recieved some stictocardia seeds from Thailand...
they look like some seeds Ron ID'd for me as I.aquatica, i have already sown one of those... the cotyledons are shown here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6113648 ...
photo shows the hilium area of the possible stictocardia seeds
and here is the hilium area on the I aquatica seeds
and here are the seeds shown together...
I aquatica top left
stictocardia bottom right
and here are the stictocardia seeds...
and here are the I aquatica seeds on the right... shown with I purpurea seeds for comparison to the left....
i noticed that some seeds are lighter than the others...
here are four seeds i've had in soak for a couple of hours... i think that maybe down to the maturity of the seed.
This message was edited Feb 25, 2009 6:00 PM
Colin - Excellent photos for a great comparison...
The seeds in the photo here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6188541
are Stictocardia...
The seeds in the lower right of the photo here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6188568
are Stictocardia...
The I.aquatica seeds that you have may be a bit on the large size and the Stictocardia may be a bit on the small size,but the tuft of hair around the hilium area on the Stictocardia is very typical for Stictocardia...
The seedcoat coloration tends to be stronger on the larger and more mature seeds of Stictocardia,although the lighter colored seeds are often viable...
Stictocardia seeds will often benefit from a careful notching of the seedcoat (distal to the hilium), temperatures in the 80's - 90's and bright light...
Thanks again for the top notch photo comparison...
TTY,...
Ron
Many Thanks Ron... it's nice to know i wasn't ripped off :-)
now i need to find out what species thay are... looking through the threads i can see that S beraviensis and S macalusoi look very similar and can be told apart by the length of the corolla
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=6160476
so i guess i'll just have to be happy that they're Stictocardia for a while :-)
here's a pic of the flower the seller used
and here's the plant...
it's offered as "ipomoea purpurea orange" btw...
Colin
Well,if you were expecting something as per how the product was verbally described i.e., "ipomoea purpurea orange", you didn't quite get that, but if you were expecting what was shown in the photo then you received something closer to what you were expecting...
This message was edited Feb 26, 2009 4:57 AM
lol :-)
Hello here are a pic of my seeds left, which I shall grow this year, I bought from a french Island colony, 2006, donŽt rembemer with, sow 2006 itŽs sprout and there where vermin on the plant the whole time, 2007 spring I throw it away, never bloom. I shall try it again these 4 seeds if they are virable still 2009.
A compare of the seeds beraviensis against tubinata.
Here is the plant I throw away
http://www.hobbyodlaren.com/strictoc.html#
hi Hobbyodlaren... that is a nice plant that you grew... it is a shame you had to throw it away...
Colin, I got all excited about that auction. The flower appears to be that of S. tiliafolia, which is native along the coast line in that part of the world. But if that guy believes that the photo is I purpurea, then he probably stole the picture from someone. We can't rely on their taxonomic skills, or their business ethics. I emailed the seller, asking if the picture matches the latin name, or the plants you get.
He answered back assuring me that the picture was an orange purpurea. lol
Stictocardia berevensis is now being grown in Florida, at Top Tropicals, and sold as 3 gal for $20 or so, so we know that the seeds are available somewhere at less than a cutthroat price.
If you did buy some of the seeds, and they turn out to be stictorcardia, like the picture, and they are
S. tilliafolia, then you have a find. I haven't seen any tiliafolia seeds for sale anywhere. The stictocardia seeds should be easy to identify, simply because of the size of them. My S. maculosoi
seeds from S. Africa are the size of cherry pits. good luck. Frank
colin yup those look like the ones I have ...Stictocardia
Debra , mine are like yours : roundish , and they are St. Macalusoi
Here is a thread , the difference between Macalusoi and Beraviensis is in the size of the bloom but perhaps in the colour .
Some bloom have yellow tube .
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/938911/
thanks Debra those seeds look like mine but yours look fuller and more rounded (nice pic btw)
thanks for the link Dany the picture on that thread shows a flower with much more yellow... very pretty it's much more exotic and tropical looking.
Frank these seeds are nowhere near the size of cherry pits... i'm waiting for S tilliafolia from Austrailia... http://www.herbalistics.com.au/shop/product_info.php?products_id=392 so i'll be able to compare the seeds soon :-) ... aslo i've read in the threads that you can propogate stictocardia from cuttings... so maybe Top Tropicals are offering vegetively produced plants...
many thanks
Colin
btw...
i did a search for stictocardia pictures through google to see if the pics where taken from the web before buying them... as it seemed dodgy that the seller was offering them as I purpurea with Stictocardia pictures ...
the ebay page states both 5 seeds and ##50 seeds for your money... this is a typo... i got 59 seeds with free P+P... that works out to about 10 seeds for roughly $1.65 all in... and they where on my doorstep 5 days later... superfast :-)
a little research can reduce dissapointments/ripoffs... and maybe i could have reduced this even further by contacting the seller like Frank did... but still, i seem to have better luck on ebay than i do with the lottery...lol
Colin
This message was edited Feb 26, 2009 7:32 AM
Colin the pic of the flowers to my seeds was much bigger flower and much more yellow on. I cant find the pic to show. Reunion Islands was my seeds from. I shall look for my picture of the bloom.
I will send the seeds to Convolvulus cantabricus next week, did you want seeds to Merremia sibirica and Merremia dissecta too?
Sylvia
Hi Sylvia... you already sent me some Merremia sibirica :-) and thanks for the offer but i have M. dissecta from a German seed company (they where supposed to be Ipomoea pubescens...lol)
i'll send you some of these Thai Stictocardias to try out...
You see what remember, then I will not send again. I send my received seed to Convolvulus cantabricus then. Be happy for seed to Thai Stictocardias.
I search and found the picture to my stictocardia IŽve bought 2006 from Reunion Islands.
Here it is:
By the way, the white Oka have coming up :o)
Sylvia
Here is bloom from the Réunion island
http://iledelareunion.blogjardin.com/grimpantes/
Debra - Nice closeup of the seeds here
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/joeswife_1235620797_363.jpg
Generally speaking about Stictocardia -
The diameter and length measurements of a corolla are often important features to measure,but it is important to maintain a clear distinction between the diameter and the length of the corolla...
I have posted that there are differences in the length of the corolla as regards S.beraviensis and S.macalusoi...and I quoted my references...
specific post on corolla length
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=6160476
entire thread posted to the ID Forum
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/788649/#post_6160476
There are some speculations posted to the thread in the Vines and Climbers forum
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/938911/
regarding the diameter of the 2 species of Stictocardia in question as the members make an attempt to ascertain what the differentiating characteristics might be...
Please remember to keep in mind that the vast amount of descriptive information on the web regarding Stictocardia is perpetuated from sellers who actually do not know how to correctly identify what they have for sale and this results in confounding attempts at taxonomic clarification...
Stictocardia tiliifolia (note epithet spelling)
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/142358/
is often confused with whatever other Stictocardia seeds / plants may be available (e.g., S.beraviensis and S,macalusoi) but S.tiliifolia is described in professional literature as having a pale pink or pale purple corolla...and not having any yellow or orange in the corolla...
Remember that the way the Stictocardia thrive and bloom in the tropics may not be the way they behave in Sweden or some other less than tropical location and this difference in plant response may sometimes add to taxonomic confusions...especially if bloom diameter and color are being considered...
Merchants often select the best looking photos to sell their products,but the advertising photos of tropical plants are often not representative of what the plants that you grow will realistically produce in a less than optimal setting...
Here is a link to what is described as Ipomoea tricolor 'flying saucers'...
http://www.barbadine.com/pages/ipomoea_violaceakondoh_lien.htm
( note that the full url includes the words ipomoea_violaceakondoh )
do you think the botanical 'assessment' is accurate (?!)...
Ipomoea purpurea is relatively very easy to differentiate from Ipomoea tricolor...so just think about what actually results in most situations when determining something more difficult like different Stictocardia species is required...mistakes occur too easily and frequently...
TTY,...
Ron
This message was edited Feb 26, 2009 6:08 AM
hi Sylvia... i still have my oka in a cold dark room... i might pot one up and see what happens...
i'm going to wait untill the end of march or april before putting the rest outside...
Sorry I didn't see your Stictocardia seed comparison picture... i think i must have gone straight to your website :-)
like Debras seeds
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6191543
the Reunion Island seeds are also round and full compared to the seeds from Thailand...
and in comparison to the I turbinata seeds in Sylvias picture
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6189034
they look like they are bigger too....
Frank do you have a picture of the seeds you have from S. Africa that shows the size?
Dany what part of the world are your seeds from?
This message was edited Feb 26, 2009 6:28 PM
This message was edited Feb 26, 2009 8:01 PM
colin, mine came from SilverHillseeds, South Africa
Her is a picture of my silverhill seeds for S. macalusoi. Frank
Here is a picture of a neglected plant I grew from the silverhill seeds, mentioned above. I had this one left over, in a 5 oz cup, with nodampoff moss. It got stuck in the shower window last June for the humidity. It seems like an androgenous plant, and has survived quite well despite a lack of rooting media. Frank
My seeds are coming from Germany:
https://ssl.kundenserver.de/shop.sunshine-seeds.de/
and they look like Frank's S.macalusoi seeds
The first year of live this vine will get flowers ?
I try to buy from Barbadine site but for me it don't work , all mails come back !
Yes Colin, the tubinataseeds are a little bit smaller.
Yes IŽm very early, to get Oka to grow, but IŽm so eager this time at year, and start many to early.
But 1 april I almost can have my plants on my veranda/porch.
Yesterday IŽve put/start 6 kinds of Ipomoeas in water before I will plant in soil. It is:
ochracea, hochstetteri, Stictocarida beravensis, setosa, carnea ssp fistulosa and a unknown seeds from Tobago they shall be yellow I think.
Looks like an very fresh and healthy plant Frank.
Dany I have buy from Barbadine several time, from thereŽs homepage, but I haveŽnt try this year.
thanks everyone... all of your seeds look much bigger... both those from Africa and Reunion... i have some I turbinata seeds and they are also bigger than the seeds from Thailand... ? .... i don't think they'll turn out to be S macalusoi ....maybe like Frank suggested they will be S tiliifolia :-))
http://www.hear.org/starr/plants/images/species/?q=stictocardia+tiliifolia
but the S tiliifolia seeds shown here also have a fuller rounder look...
http://www.hear.org/starr/plants/images/image/?q=080716-9423
However, the stictocardia in the above link do not have a pale pink or purple corolla, so i don't think they are correctly identified...
i've sent some to you Sylvia... so you'll be able see the difference soon :-)
Dany.... i don't think they will flower the first year from seed, but i'm not sure...
here's a link with some growing instructions and pictures... the flowers are fantastic:
http://www.toptropicals.com/html/toptropicals/plant_wk/stictocardia.htm
this site has Stictocardia Beraviensis... but seems very expensive at $14.99 for two seeds!
http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=2797471
This message was edited Feb 27, 2009 7:15 AM
This message was edited Feb 27, 2009 1:07 PM
Yes Colin very expensive, dont buy.
I have sow my 4 seeds now, hopefully they will sprout, I have had them in my refrigator since 2006.
If I have success, I can share a cuttings och seedlings with you later.
Yesterday I send you convol.cantabricus. I look at tiliifolia and it was a nice flower too. The close up with the starpattern inside, very beautiful.
Sylvia
The prices are crazy
sometime 3 seeds for 15 $
other time 15 seeds for 3 $
Good links, Colin
That's the problem with the natives , they are perenial and most of them need 2 years to bloom.I grow them in large containers and I can mix some annual Ip. Nil only the first year , the second year no more place for the Nil.
Since some of you folks are starting your Stictocardia seeds, I think it i important that you get it right the first time. It may not be true that the entire genus needs the same pre sprout treatment, but I assume it is for safety sake.
Last year, after 2 failures, I finally got it right with mine. I used a dremel toole, with a thin disk, and cut through that thick seed coat all the way around twice, to keep the seed coat from clinging to the cotyledons after germination. If it does, then fungus and mould will attack the seed hull and infect the
cotyledons through the injuries made my the seed coat while the cotyledons are expanding.
I did this after soaking them for two days with a little iodine in the water, enough to make the water look like urine.
Then I soaked them for another 4 to 5 days, at 100 degrees F. THESE DONT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT LIKE NHILS! I used a coffee cup warmer, or a scented candle warmer. with and 8 oz cup full of water for the warm bath. I put a thermometer in it so I could check the temp frequently. I found that when the mug was full, the temp hovered at 90 degrees F, but if the water evaporated to the point that it was 1 inch lower than the start, then the temp was 100 degrees F. The lower the water, the higher the temp gets. In the cup I floated a petri dish with the iodine water and some peroxide, and the seeds, with the lid on.
After a total of 7 days, I took them out and planted them in cups, with Nodampoff, with bottom heat. I believe the bottom heat is incredibly important here, since the seeds are now germinating because of the warm bath.
The things that I used, that you may not have at home were, the coffee cup warmer, the iodine, and the plastic petri plates, Mosser Lee "NODAMPOFF" fine chopped moss.
With expensive seeds, it is important to realize that the "HELMET EFFECT" can be fatal by causing a secondary infection in the wounds to the cotyledon, when the fungus devour it. On some types of thick coated seeds, if you only slightly nick the seeds, the seed coat maintains a death grip on the developing cotyledons. This is the "hellmet affect". It is fungus food.
I only germinated 5 seeds, cautiously, but got 100% germination in a week or so. Hope this helps keep you from wasting those prescious seeds.
Colin, I took a gamble on buying some of those seeds from Thailand, so we'll see if they are allowed through or not in the next month.
I wish we had a reader in Hawaii, that could get us some tiliafolia seeds. Frank
Thanks Frank...
I think that I wasn't perfectly clear above, about the seed coat feeding the fungus that decompose it rapidly. This process seems to take place regardless of specie. Unfortunately it is the thick heavy seed coats that cause the most problems to the cotyledons, if they don't unclamp from the cotyledons.
The secondary fungus consuming the seed coat, may not be a pathogen, meerly an opportunist, looking for some free carbs. That includes sugars and starches, which the cotyledons are full of. An undamaged cotyledon can endure this vulnerable period normally, unless the cotyledons, have injuries from over nicking, or from the helmet affect. This secondary infection by opportunistic fungi, can happen in 24 hours, and the second day it is too late. Getting that seed coat completely released from the seed, a few days from planting is very important when the seeds, cost in the dollars, and you are germinating 100 % of all the seeds you have. This strategy is good for all thick coated seeds. When the seed coat clamps onto the cotyledons, it is like the seed is in the JAWS of the seed coat. I sometimes worry, when nicking heavy coated seeds, that I am going too deep. It is important to be as careful as a dentist. Inside the seedcoat is the endosperm, and it is a nice thick buffer between the seed coat and the embryo. If you can learn to recognize the difference in that layer and the first layer of the embryo, you will be ahead of the game.
This has been a really great thread Colin. Thanks. I am in the hope that all those who try this method will check back in with pictures and a progress report a few weeks after starting them out.
Now would be a good time to plan on a short photo-essay on your experience.
If you load your pix into Picasa, file them, save them to a folder, then later you can bring up that folder, and select the ones for a group, by selecting them one at a time into the tray. Then you can go to collage, and select the type of collage you want to use, and make a collective photo of as many as you want to put in. Go try this, it is great and will save us all that time of posting a number of pix. You will only have to post one multiple, hooray for that. Frank
Colin -You mentioned :
"However, the stictocardia in the above link do not have a pale pink or purple corolla, so i don't think they are correctly identified.."
ditto
TTY,...
Ron
name this .. pretty sure is a stictocardia, but have been known to be wrong most of the time LOL
