Couple Questions

I own a horse boarding and training operation so naturally have ..'horse poop. I use only the straight poop in my compost, the bedding we use is sawdust and doesn't seem to compost very quickly. I also have lots of oak trees....which = oak leaves. Use them too in the compost pile, along w/ coffee grounds, peelings...green stuff. I also have been adding the ash from our fireplace. But got to thinking that it might make for to much potash. I also pull part of the compost and store in in an old black rubber trash can w/ a lid...makes that stuff cook in NO time.
Also, If I want to raise the PH...say on one side of the compost pile, can I use the pelleted lime like I use on the horse pasture? Or is there something else I should use.
Thanks In advance for the help
mj

This message was edited Feb 12, 2009 9:01 PM

Lime will rase the pH.

Lime will raise the pH but why on one side of the compost pile?

I'm not sure you would want to add it to your compost pile. It may harm some of the beneficial insects/organisms that are part of the composting process.

We toss a form of lime on our chicken coop floor to help keep the smell and bugs in check. I don't have any experience with this but I just question whether or not it would harm the composting process.

It would probably be easier to just add the lime to your soil after you add your compost.

wthex...yes that probably would be better to just add the lime to the specific beds that needed it. Don't know why I didn't think of that..............guess it's being "blonde AND gray" !

According to what I've read, the composting process is a natural neutralizer. I've put fireplace ash in my compost bins for years, and never seen any negative effects on the plants where I've used the finished compost.

I too have added ash to my compost bin.

I don't believe that it would create and negative effects on the plants I just question whether or not lime will inhibit the composting process. It may not stop it but it may slow the process.

I use a hot composting method that produces usable compost in about 3 weeks. The slower processes may not be as effected by it, I'm not really sure.

The method that I use is to perform a soil test after my compost as been worked into the soil and had a week or so to set.
Then I will know if any further amendments are needed.

What is your hot composting method. I also take some of my compost and put in a black plastic trash can with a lid. I water it down once or twice a week. It seems to break down much faster that way.

I was just thinking that lime would keep the compost more neutral in PH..esp. with the oak leaves. I'll test it and see. Are there other ways to raise ph besides lime?

Wthex,

I would also love to know how you are able to make usable compost in 3 weeks.

Well, I'm trying to think here... I believe it is called the California method. You may be able to google it, but I read about it in "Let it Rot".

Anyway, you basically just make sure that all your "ingredients" are cut down as small as you can, then of course water, then you will need to turn it about every 3 or 4 days once the pile gets hot.

I think the creators of this method boast 2 weeks but mine generally takes 3 or 4.

mjsponies - I'm giving the black plastic method a go. I have a bunch of leaves that my neighbor gave me in several black plastic bags. I wanted to get them chopped up before the snow hit, but didnt get it done. hopfully it works out anyway.

just found this with google: http://vric.ucdavis.edu/pdf/compost_rapidcompost.pdf

oh, darn---I was hoping you'd tell me I could get finished compost in 3 weeks without DOING anything....LOL!

Here is another: http://ucanr.org/freepubs/docs/8037.pdf

ha ha - Yeah, I wish.

Thanks for supplying those links. It sounds interesting, but I wonder if it is valid when you live in a cooler climate. It is hard to imagine usable compost in a couple of weeks when the weather during the winter.

Are you able to use this year round or does it only work for you in warm weather?

I live in Montana, it tends to get a little cool here. ;)

I don't really do any composting during the winter.

This message was edited Feb 15, 2009 11:17 AM

Indeed. I spent August 1960 thru March 1970 in Great Falls. There were some nights it was 60 below, and that was WITHOUT wind chill.

I'll second that one pigeon. The only composting that I do in the winter is Vermicomposting. Although there is almost always some leftover in the bin from the fall, it don't take long before its starts back up in the spring.

I have been considering a clear plastic cover for winter to see what happens. I have heard that it will heat up and in my opinion that is better than a completely cold pile, but I'm afraid that when the temp drops to -10 or -20 it will be completely frozen and nothing will happen.

Plastic takes two things away from your compost pile that it needs.....water and oxygen. Water......rain water delivers nitrogen while the water and the air movement delivers oxygen. A decent cover would be a light covering with your garden soil and some more leaves held down with very light wood tree trimmings. Simply remove the tree trimmings in the spring. I have used woven untreated blankets...non-treated tarps but far prefer the natural blanketing methods.

My compost pile is a hardware cloth circle. I made a cover using plastic, cable ties, and paracord, to go around it. There is actually space between the compost and plastic. I try to throw something over the top as well. It seems to keep it a lot moister. I can actually feel heat when I stick my hand in.

We dug a hole and fill the hole, then rotate the newer stuff to the hole as we use it, digging out from underneath. I also use the trash can. I put older compost in it, add sand, perlite, to use for potted stuff. It breaks down pretty quick. I rotate my pile, and keep it pretty compact. The only plant I've ever had that seemed to "complain: has been Penta's. And they complain to me even if I buy potting soil for them. Don't know what it is but they don't like me !
Otherwise I add cactus soil, (to lighten the compost) extra perlite, and so far all seems well. Actually the Penta's were what started my whole train of thought on this as I wondered if the PH was all wrong for them. In any case, I'm going thru it fast, and as many plants in pots/ beds and general garden area's as we have. we can't afford to go buy soil. I find worms, grubs in the soil when I dig out from underneath. Is that bad? I thought it was a good thing.? I acutally posted a question on another thread about contractors sand/pearlite, as I know I saw a thread that said you could use contractors sand instead of Pearlite. Ok...so what are your thoughts/recommendations regarding that?
Thanks for your help....I'm just trying to keep my costs down.

Count your worms.........the more the better. I do not know the term cactus soil so I am more or less stuck on that subject. I rarely add sand because my native soil is sandy loam. You pretty well said you have a potting soil that your plants like. You are the one who has to work with your options and build a nice medium to work with. Sounds to me like you are doing pretty well.

Yes, I don't remember where I seen or read about using clear plastic but it should still get moisture since the sides of the bin are wooden slats that are set at an angle. They would definitely collect some snow.

I suppose I could toss some of the leaves in the bin and fill it up as much as possible, but I don't know if will have the proper amount of greens to add.

Humm.... Just remembered that its about time to clean the chicken coop. There may be enough Nitrogen there to get it hot.

Possibly this coming weekend..

I will keep everyone posted if I get the pile going.

Too bad I can't ship horse poop....I have an endless supply!!!!!!!!!!

ponies, post it on freecycle if you can't use it all. I sure some Florida gardener would be very grateful!!

Doug

Finished compost is usually slightly alkaline. Because you are also dealing with pine shavings it may benefit you to add lime to help in the composting. A little goes a long way, 1 cut to 25 cu.ft. When dealing with fresh manure it's sometimes helpful to cover with clear plastic to stop the escaping nitrogen in the form of ammonia.

I wished I had an endless supply of horse poop, it would go good with my endless supply of leaves.

Those leaves are roughly the value of cow or horse poop when completely composted. The PH of all rotting material is about 7.0 when finished. A half an inch over any garden is considered enough in most instances. That small percentage of 7.0 material will not adjust the soil much in any given year. In my gardens one forty pound bag of pelleted lime will raise the PH one point in a one thousand square foot patch over a period of six to eight months. I like to keep my patches between 5.5 and 6.5 PH for general gardening. Once a mistake is made it takes a year or two to back down a full point without messing with other additives for adjustment. It is better to be a bit shy of 7.0 than a bit over 7.0 in most instances. Guessing at it is a craps shoot. Test at least until you know what happens in your patch after making adjustments.

Kenboy...I have an endless supply of leaves to go w/ the horse poop. Live oaks, water oaks, Pine trees, and Red Maples. I put some in the compost pile and some I save for mulch. We also mulch w/ Spanish Moss. Now that keeps the little weeds from poking thru.

postmandug, I have offered it on freecycle...the problem is they don't come pick it up...I make piles and all they have to do is bring their big ole containers and load it up, and then they figure out it's just a littleeeee bittttt of work to load that stuff up. Or they show up in a little car...haha...
And then I have to move the pile. I'm am a member of a local gardening group now so I'm going to see if I can "unload" some of my ponies "load" there.

Leaves....run over them w/ the mower or one of those chopper thingies, bag them up and set them in an inconspicuous place or put them on your mulch pile. They will break down faster is black plastic bags. Just an eyesore............

docipe.........exactly why I was asking the question about adding lime to the mulch pile...didin't want to overdo it.

Now...If someone could only tell me what's a good alternative to Perlite.................that question is still not answered.......
Guys?????????????????????????/ Help??????????????/ I know...........I'm a PIA..............

The only place I ever used Perlite is in my potting soils. My gardens get nothing but leaves and other mulches or ammendments like a load of pea vines or even spent brewery hops. I buy spoiled hay when a barn roof leaks or a tarp blows off in a storm that ruins the hay. A bale of soy bean vines is priceless as are all the coffee grounds I hustle up when I can. Of course I work back as much compost as I can come up with......that is usually about a ton a year which I dole out gingerly.

I would just stop using perlite and keep on keeping on building the organic content of the soil.
A cover crop each fall turned under each spring will do more than any amount of perlite. Perlite in my opinion only adds structure and water holding capacity. I don't know anyone who has added perlite in field or patch structure. Greenhouses do it because they don't in most instances deal with soil and only want an improved structure for a few weeks while starting seedlings in a soiless medium.

Shoot for an organic content of five percent. That will grow anything but desert plants well. Each percentage point on up to ten will show you much improved soil. Few gardeners get that high and fewer still make 15%. Really giant produce is possible between 8 and 15% organic content in the soil. It took me five years to work up from 10% to just over 15%. That was the goodness that grew my giant pumpkins and whooper gourds and a few others.

Oh...I do just use the Perlite in the potting mix...not the beds..............but because I mix my own potting mix, And we can get into some very wet periods here, I like to make sure the drainage is good and the soil not too heavy. I also use cactus mix to help w/ that. Guess I wasn't making myself clear on that part. sorry....

That's OK.........we all get tangle tounge when talking with our fingers. LOL Vermulite is another I play with in my potting soil. I really have not come up with a standard docgipe potting soil.....except that it is always last years worn out potting soil laced with and into some compost, some garden soil (heaven forbid) Perilite and Vermulite and some Coir. Then to bulk it up with new commercial I use Miracle Grow Organic Potting soil which now includes mycorrozae. Into that I add some 4-2-4 organic fertilizer a quart or so of Azomite (trace minerals) or some years greensand just to keep a variety of goodies going into the rebuilding of last years worn out soil. As I plant my flowers or potted anything I start using weak teas mixing them up more or less in a rotation.....kelp tea, manure tea, fish oil tea, and very light humic acid tea. If I see some gosh darned good looking bottled wonder organic product I am likely to make that into a light tea and so on. I use a light tea once a week.
.........I've done more or less something like this for at least twenty years with no ill effects that I have ever noticed. I have been making aerobic compost tea which few people mess with. My flowers get just three aerobic compost tea applications...sometimes only two. The rest of my fifty gallons goes here and there all over the property. Manure tea when processed by the natural soils will eventually do just as good as the aerobic teas. It just takes about a month in the soil to self process to where aerobic teas are when applied. I only did two batches of aerobic compost teas due to health issues of mine last summer.
........Build some kind of a program with some of these applications and you will be head and shoulders above most gardeners you know. Once I got involved with the teas I was hooked into some really good growing of beautiful plants and flowers.
........A couple years back I tea fed a long gourd that normally grows to about fifty inches long into a Pennsylvania record at 98" long. I gave that sucker a bedtime snack every night from bloom to finished growth and only let the plant grow one gourd. 106" is now the state record but my name is not now on it. LOL

Here is the stupid long gourd I worked all summer growing. It was the Pa. State Record about four years ago. Not now....I've been whooped upon. LOL

The seed from that gourd is in seventh place nationally for growing on more fruit over a hundred inches. The bees made the cross by self. There was no other polinator anywhere near where I grew that one.

According to the University of Minnesota most compost will be slightly alkaline. Check out the section on liming. If I only added 1/2 inch of compost per year to my soil it would take the rest of my life to get it in condition. Our soil is nothing but red clay with a pH of around 5.5. Lime will raise the pH but will not help condition my clay soil, so I use gypsum. Gypsum raises the pH slightly and it is unbelievable how much it help loosen our soil, so we are able to work it. I do not have a vegetable garden just thousands of plants under our big oak trees. The only time I need to work the soil is when I am planting new plants or dividing ones already planted.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG3899.html

Manure and a fall cover crop will really beef up anything else you are doing. This will bring on the earthworms even more so if you mulch. The worms will do a better job than any ammendment to break up the clay. 5.5 - 6.5 PH is excellent general gardening PH. Lime will give you some trace minerals too but Azromite will give you all 69 known minor trace mineral missing in a lot of soils. The PH does little if the rest of the ballance is not in play all working for natural NPK, trace minerals and better structure.

Howard Garrett the Texas wizzard has good solid principles in all that he has written. My first Garrett book was titled Dear Dirt Doctor. He has other books too. I have a few. Lean into his line of organic principles and you will not do much wrong. Think he lives in Dallas, is on the radio, TV and in numerous newspapers with weekly articles. Look in Amazon.com for slightly damaged books at a real good price. Mine are all paperbacks with slight damage. He sells Garrett Juice. I think you are savy enough to make your own.

I guess one of the reasons I was asking about lime is because every time I've had my horse pastures tested, they were a little acid...and we've had to lime them. (11 acres at 1-2 TONS of lime per acre) so I figured my compost would be the same. But I'm going to test several samples from the pile and test the flower beds. Most of what I grow will be fine in a wide range. but a few would like more alkaline soil. Now...where did I put that soil tester kit???????????????/

I don't have clay here..............sand and or loamy sandishy type soil.

This message was edited Feb 17, 2009 8:45 PM