BUBBLE ENVELOPES and postage rates

There have been widely varying reports of how much postage gets charged for sending a bubble envelope, and it seems to vary according to your local post office's interpretation of the regulations. These reg's have only been around a couple of years, which may account for some of the confusion and variation.

It's now advisable to use the "parcel" rate to determine postage on bubble envelopes.

For the past two years, I have been able to send out bubble envelopes at the "large envelope" rate, because they are between 1/4 and 3/4 inches in thickness, are not rigid, and are not lumpy (I pack carefully). BE's with just a couple packets of tiny seeds went out at the "letter rate" plus non-machinable surcharge (currently 20 cents).

Today, I was told that bubble envelopes less than 11 (may have been 11 1/2) inches long do not meet the minimum dimensions for a "large envelope." Also, I was told that because the perimeter of a bubble envelope is flat (no bubbles at the outer edge), that means every BE varies more than 1/4 inch in thickness, so again it can not be a "letter" or a "large envelope" but must be a "first class parcel."

My counter guy says the USPS has been cracking down at all locations, making sure everybody understands the definitions and is following the rules precisely, so it's possible more people may start running into this now.

At current first class parcel rates, it costs $1.17 for the first ounce in a bubble envelope, and 17 cents more for each additional ounce. Rates are due to increase this spring, so be sure to check the USPS site for updated information.

The good news is that I no longer have to worry about my bubble envelopes being too thick or too lumpy. As far as I know, the only limitation on first class parcels is that they be less than 13 oz (and not too huge in dimension).

Unfortunately, my counter guy (who has no recollection of any of our previous postage discussions LOL) didn't change his interpretation when I had just a few envelopes to send. Oh, no, I had to learn about this when I had 40 BE's to send out for a seed co-op! (If you were in the co-op, please don't worry; I did round up my estimate slightly, so some of the additional postage was covered, and I'm not asking for more.)

I don't know about the bubble envelopes, but when I sent out a letter sized envelope with seeds wrapped in just a little bubble wrap a week or two ago, I got charged around 1.50 for what would have been 42 cents, had it not been slightly thicker than a letter. Today I sent out more seeds than I did last time, also in a letter size envelope but without the bubble wrap, and the clerk had to ask the other clerk (who had charged me extra last time) if it was a parcel or not. She felt it and finally said it could go as a letter for 42 cents. While they were debating, I mentioned that I had just received seeds from Belgium in a letter-sized envelope with bubble wrap, and it had cost less than the 1.50 I was charged last time to ship within the US. Geez.

If they'd just make up their minds how they were dealing with this, I could cope! I think they need to state very clearly where bubble envelopes fall in the regulations on their web site -- even with a disclaimer that "this may not apply to all bubble envelopes" or something, in case there's some non-standard ones out there. If the mail clerks don't know how to figure out postage on them, how the heck are we supposed to be able to get it right?!

Thanks for letting me vent while passing along this info. LOL

I live out in well.. BFE...LOL and they have a device that if it doesn't fit thru the slot the base price is $1.17..Think about it!!! you can't drive(gas is high) to WM or the BB store and buy seeds(especially odd ones) for that price.. Not so bad...Besides you have the oppurtunity to share/trade and make friends in the process.. If I get things for just postage I always try to thro in a few extra stamps if I have them just becoz.I appreciate ones efforts.. Packing up a bunch of seeds can take alot of time..
Kylie

Oh, I'm not saying it isn't still a bargain... just that I wish my postage estimate hadn't been off by $12 because suddenly my counter guy changed how he did things. He wouldn't even give the skinny BE's a push to see if they'd go through that slot... said they had to fall through when dropped! LOL, only a postcard is gonna do that.

Im glad I found this. I got a return BE today .08 postage due.it had 1.10 in postage on it. First one that I know if. This was a 3x6 inch envelope. I think it depends on the mood of the carrier. Or whomever is taking mail at the desk that day. They would all just go I think if we dropped them in the Big Blue box on the side of the road.I guess sometimes some people are not as thrilled with our pastimes as we are. Imagine it!!

At this price, it's too expensive to do 1 packet of seeds trade. And they wondered why we don't use them anymore! Well, let see if someone could come up with a creative way to send small seeds.

personally i am mystified by all the confusion over the rates. as far as i am aware, whenever i send out a bundle in a bubby that is an ounce or less, at first class rates, it only costs 59¢ at the current rates (yes - due to rise in May) . . . which is 42¢ for the ounce and a 17¢ surcharge for the thickness of the bubby. now, if a bubby is a large one but still not more than one ounce in weight i only use a total of 59¢ - - because under USPS regulations one cannot be dunned for multiple or "stacked" surcharges, i.e. i will not be charged another 17¢ for the size of the bubby in addition to the surcharge for its thickness.

very often i receive trades from other members who are sending an ounce or less of weight and the postage they paid really stuns me . . . $1.17 . . . $1.98 . . . and so on. i KNOW that if i were to take the very same bubby and send it back to the other party from my local postal station it would only require 59¢ postage !!!

there are either postal employees who are real dunces out there or there are cheats who are just plain overcharging. it has to be one or the other.

Actually, I think the "nonmachinable surcharge" is now 20 cents. And Laz, my experience used to be similar than yours -- until today.

However, BE's of up to one ounce should never be charged more than $1.17 (at current rates).

A gardening friend encouraged me to use the medium ply stryofoam sheets to wrap my seeds packets in a regular envelope. Using that method, I can send one pack to 2 packs of seeds for 42 cents, 3-5 packs of seeds for 59 cents in the US. Overseas for 74 cents to Canada or Mexico, 94 cents to Asia, Africa, Europe, Australia, and South America. and at most I had to add 10cents more for a package going to Europe because it weighed over an ounce. BTW, I sent seeds to all the above in the past 2 weeks except to Asia, Africa and Mexico using the method described above and without any seeds being crushed or destroyed. It works better for me than the bubble wrap as I always have large stryofoam sheets available from electronic packages and such. That's my little red cent!

That's a good tip! I don't like the notion of paying $1.17 to send 1 packet in a BE. I'll be doing a for-postage offer soon with just 1 pack of tomato seeds, and I think I'll just do SASE rather than SASBE, maybe with a piece of lightweight cardstock for protection.

Lazo that is my feeling I think there are some ( Postal employees that either dont know or are taking advantage) THe rates differ vastly just on this thread. Something has to be wrong with it. Now we those of us that are getting the wrong employee anyway, have to find a way around it. I think the cardstock is a good idea we can recycle them.
Robin

Critter~ the cardstock idea sounds good!

Just be sure not to use corregated cardboard or anything too stiff... then the envelope becomes "rigid" and turns into a first class parcel instead.

What if we popped a few of the bubbles on the bubble sheet? Not all, but some. Will that help with the bulkiness. My kids love to pop those bubbles! :)

There's a 3 step method they are now supposed to use at the counter to determine the status of a first class piece of mail, and it uses a cardboard template. As all postal employees are taught and tested on this, it seems likely that the rates will standardize so that most BE's are mailed at the "first class parcel" rate.

I'm paraphrasing what's below... maybe somebody can find the actual template with the rules on it somewhere on the USPS site.

1. Can the envelope be dropped through the 1/4 inch slot? If yes, then it is a "letter" and goes for the lowest of the first class rates, with a nonmachinable surcharge if applicable.

2. If more than 1/4 inch thick, the next step checks length x width. If the envelope is not bigger than the gray area of the template, then it does not meet the *minimum* requirement to be a "large envelope." Since it will have to be hand tossed rather than machine sorted, it is now treated as a "first class parcel" at the highest first class rate.

3. If more than 1/4 inch thick and meeting the dimensional requirements for a "large envelope," it will go at a rate between that for letters and parcels.

I like to pop those bubbles! lol!
I have the same problem w/ the postage and have learned which PO is better to ship from. I have 6 to choose from in an 8 mile radius from my house.

Here you go. Pop to your hearts content and have fun!
http://fun.from.hell.pl/2003-11-24/bubblewrap.swf

Allow me to rant: The post office has made it increasingly less friendly to go to the counter, much like banks. But, unlike banks it imposes regulations and rates that require a double major in math and physics to figure out. I had a BE returned with postage due that matched neither large envelope nor parcel. It took two weeks to come back to me. The counter person treated me like an idiot and when I asked her why it took two weeks to get it back she answered, "Because it takes time." Calling her on that response she stated that she didn't know about delivery. I do not have time to wait in line everytime I send something. The line often extends into the lobby. If one day it is a large envelope and the next day it is a parcel and occasionally it is a regular envelope how are we to know how much postage to apply? Their customer assistance is as unresponsive as Microsoft's. I recommend you complain every time they are ambiguous. It is no wonder they are losing business to more competent businesses.

Thanks for letting me rant. I think I am a fairly reasonable person, but the USPS has really gotten under my skin lately.

Z

kathy, that is fantastic!

just trying to please fellow poppers lol

Thanks Kathy, as you may have noticed from my rant, I needed that. I feel better already. I was tempted to stomp on my returned envelope to make it fit the 1/4 inch slot.

Z

lol switch to manic mode and pop some more it does not sound like you are done yet rotfl

Kathy thats great. Lol

TY have fun. There are several virtual bubble wrap sites but most of them require a download and I do not like to just download stuff. This is the only one I know about that is just there to play with.

I just mailed a small BE with 3 packets of not bulky seeds yesterday, stood in line because I also had a true package to mail. I was charged 62 cents to mail the BE. However, the BE was a recycled BE from Europe and not quite as bulky as the ones I usually use. I have mailed a fair number of small BE's by just putting it out for pickup many times, put two stamps on them and none have been returned for more postage. I just laugh at the message on the big boxes in the drive-thru in front of the P.O. The message sounds like it's telling you to go inside to the clerks at the counter to mail anything more irregular than a regular plain envelope. I put BE's in those boxes. What are they going to do anyway? Is Homeland Security going to identify you and come to your house to arrest you? Hahaha! Big Brother doesn't have that kind of moulah! Our national budget gets farther in the red with each bailout or pork barrel project that goes through congress.

I've sent out a lot of BE's from my mailbox with 62 or 83 cents postage, and I haven't had any trouble. But for sending out 40 at once, I needed to go to the post office... or can't you just see me walking down the block, adding 5 of them to everybody's outgoing mail?!

Next time just buy the stamps and then put all of the BE in the big blue box.

They'd end up getting sorted by the same folks working the counter... and with that many coming in, I'm sure they'd check them and not just chuck them into the bins.

I understand. Some of the blue boxes are only emptied by the truck dirver and others are emptied by the workers in that post office. I have 7 post offices within a 45 mile radius and every one of them handles things differently. It does not make sense because they are all the same service with the same rules and rates. My post office shook a package that I took in to weigh and stamp. She refused to let me mail it because it had live fish in it. They were tropical fish that I was trading with someone. She told me that it is against the law to mail live animals. I tried to explain that it is only against the rules to mail animals that cannot survive 72 hours without care. That is why all of the chicken hatcheries send baby chicks thru the mail. Tropical fish fall under the same rule. She tried to tell me that no one mails chickens! I have received many baby chicks via U.S. mail.

If the whole post office ever tried to follow and enforce every single rule and regulation they have now, the whole operation would grind to a halt. So many of those are unrealistic, too complicated and downright unfair. People are losing respect for the P.O., at least those who hadn't already. About 3 times a year, mail addressed to us gets sent back as "no such address". Why, we don't know. The times we've been able to check with the person sending it, the address was found to be correctly written. Recently, they did that with a company sending me seeds. The company had to later re-send it with return receipt requested, after we finally followed up on it. Resulting in a delay of about a month all told and more expensive shipping for the sender...which may be one reason why so many companies charge way more for shipping than it would normally cost. Most of the seeds have to be cold stratified for a month...so I would have had them planted already....if not for the P.O. Living out in the country, it's especially frustrating. Our community boxes aren't very big, so many packages don't fit. There's two large boxes available for packages here. But often only one works at a time. So packages are usually taken back to our P.O. and a notice is in the box saying it will be available there on a date, usually the next day if no weekend or holiday is involved. Of course, if a signature is required, the notice is automatic. The P.O. is about 15 miles away, so driving there and back is no small thing if you're not going to that area anyway. At times we've tried to pick up a package on that date....and guess what? It's not there sometimes. The contract carrier took it to try to deliver it again. This past year, the carriers actually started delivering packages to houses on very rare occasion. They never did that before. I almost passed out with shock the first time one came up here! Anyway, I have very little respect for the whole P.O.! UPS and the other similar companies are very popular with people who live here.

This message was edited Feb 6, 2009 9:06 PM

Well, I really like my mailman. He is so nice, but I do think that the prices are ridiculous.

guys I mail out BEs' everyday from work and a postal machine that has the rates on it.. I have mailed out a .42 letter to people with seeds.. in cardboard.. and was told by reciepients seeds arrived crushed.. several of you have gotten seeds from me in the mail.. I have tried all the different ways I could try to get it out to you without it costing you or it coming back to me.. I highly recommend the BE ( small) for 1.17 until May when that changes.. and if you send out in a reg first class postage, make sure you wrap yer seeds so no complaints come back at ya..
I do know that a flat is a flat envelope , and a parcel is not flat! LOL sheese! ... Good luck to us all in this area cuz the USPS changes so often...I was charged 3.20 extra to pick up envelopes from the local PO twice recently ... cuz it was not enuff.. it didn't fit into the little "slot" they said.. ( not from anyone in DG) I will scan my sheet at work monday and post it here so you can see the guides..

Oh...I should have said that I have nothing against the carriers on the routes. But the "system" and the rules and regulations are bad and they know it. My late father was a carrier. Back then things were at least better than now. But by the time he retired they were already sending mail back if the address had a slight error but it was obvious who it should be delivered to. That really bothered him.

my sis in law and bro in law both carry for the Buffalo, Ny PO.. poor them!

As far as getting a BE back for insuffcient postage, that doesn't happen here. What does happen is that if someone sends ME one that doesn't have enough postage, according these hazy PO rules, I have to pay the postage. My mail person includes a brown postal envelope that has the amount I'm to put in and put out for the mail person the next day. I ususally just pay it and don't say anything to the sender.

What really got me was a recent trade. I sent out a small packet of seeds in a BE for $1.17 and in return, got a year old -packed for '08-package of cheap seeds that sell here for 10 for a $1.00. The sender did not mention that
1. They were not from her own garden
2. They were from last year

I would not have traded had I known this. I guess in the future I need to ask the source of the seeds, and if they are a year old. Live and learn.

My PO counter person charges $1.17 to send all light weight BE's with seeds inside.

Linda

I agree the costs are getting so high it makes my head spin, but I do want to tell you that my mailman is so kind. He knows that I sometimes have a hard time walking to the mailbox, so anytime the weather isn't just perfect, he stops his truck, gets out and brings the mail to my front porch. If I still have mail in the box when he comes the next day, he will bring it to the door, ring the bell and wait for me to let him know I'm okay. Don't tell the USPS, he'd probably get in trouble.

Probably. They tend to write the carriers up if they are too slow.

They should all follow these. Right? Must be a chart we can print and take with us when we go to the post office.
http://postcalc.usps.gov/

There is it is right here
http://postcalc.usps.gov/ZoneCharts/Default.aspx
Hope it helps

Yes, but the problem is that all bubble envelopes are now considered "first class parcels" or packages, not letters or large envelopes (although full size BE's might still count as large envelopes).