Probs with cuttings....

I'm thinking it might be better to post this here than on the prop. section.

I *finally* got my A. p. 'Omurayama' to root! New growth, green and semi-green, taken between Sept. and Nov., stuck in perlite, kept in domed prop. tray. The cuttings get to the point of several leaves, by which time the stem starts getting black. Fungus? Too wet? Too hot? I'm having the same probs with my rose cuttings, so I'm assuming it's culture/environment, but I can't find this issue on DG and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks for reading.

I'm no expert on cuttings but it looks like it could be Pseudomonas
http://www.carlmontnursery.com/page.asp?page_id=166

Here's a discussion about treatment and prevention.
http://king.wsu.edu/gardening/MGCD/Quiz/P.%20syringae%20Article%20and%20Quiz.pdf

that is good info doss - still wondering what happened to a bloodgood last year - looks like it was either sun or over watering - i hope.

Sorry about your Bloodgood wha. I hope that whatever you've replaced it with does well.

no it is still there and hoping it fairs better this year. at least it did not have the disease that makes is black....

doss, thanks for the link. I'm assuming Pseudomonas, which I guess for cuttings means sayonara. And, if it's airborne, I think it's time to trash the cuttings in the prop. tray (under dome), sterilize the bejeezus out of it, and start again. The mother plant hasn't shown any sign of Pseudomonas, and there are some boxwood cuttings that have been settling in for 4 months now and look perfectly fine. Also Actinidia that seems unscathed. .
Someday, somehow, I'm going to prop. JM from cuttings, darnit!

i tried and failed at it with jm and dogwoods - i did it teh same way you have - did not get the roots to start - i'm sticking to seed germination. have a dozen or more that came up last year hiding in the snow - and put in shirazz seeds this year, having shirazz babies would be GREAT!!

Having Shirazz babies will be really fun wha.

Sorry about all of your hard work going down the drain plantaholic. Growing JM's from cuttings is a very difficult thing.

Shirazz baby's? My Shirazz produced one set of samaras. I took this set of samaras, placed them on top of loose potting soil in a pot and plunged the pot in the ground in a very protected spot. Then I lightly covered the pot with three or four loose oak leaves. Over that I pegged a loose covering of nylon window screen to keep any winds gusts from blowing off the leaves or the seeds. The probability of these two lonely seeds being viable are questionable. But I just had to try. Right now the whole thing is under 12" of snow.

Also speaking of Shirazz, anyone know if it survives -17? Winter here has been unbelievably brutal.

mine is still looking good - it was -10 here - i've gone around and looked at all the trees and can see no frost bite signs - spring will be the real test.

only 2 huh - i had a bunch of them - nothing fancy like you - i put them in peat containers covered them with good dirt and stuck'em in the ground - worked for the bloodgood/crimson queen/and virdis. although it took two years for the seeds to sprout. has tried putting those same seeds in the refrig and following some directions that were suppose to get them to sprout over one winter - no luck so i through them in the same peat containers and up they came a year later. they are all separated in little containers in the ground now.

Huh! I didn't know it could take two seasons. I would have pitched that pot come June if there was no germination. Now, I'll just wait it out and see.

-17 is nasty. There's no obvious damage visible yet - it was 37 today - but like you point out spring will tell the tale.

I'm too afraid to monitor the damage on my babies. It's depressing enough to not be able to garden : (

-5 here this morning - although Warner now. my main concern is the coral bark that lost 1 of its three major branches at the base - nice an red like the others - it will be a miracle if the branch makes it.

As far as cuttings, we have gone over this before . It has been shown only a few cultivars can successfully fe propagted by this nethod . In addition the eventual mortality rate has been shown to be almost 100% for unknown reasons. Most nursery folks will not either do cuttings from bad experiences or except them from others. As far as domed methods for any progation even grafting I have found those to be touchy . without proper vetalation you will have a mold/ fungus farm ... whether that is Psuedonomous or not it definitely is fungal .

If Jms could be successfully propagated and sustained by this method , it would be widely used and it is not . It is a wishful thinking that there would be such an easy way to propate cultivars just as seeds that are doable but not true to the cultivar. Grafting,Budding, Air layering and I assume cloning are the only tried and true methods to ensure propagation a viable and lasting specific TRUE cultivar . David

Nice to see you around david. You've been missed!

I read the post above by myersphcf a couple of days ago and I just had post a comment. You make a absolute statement about propagation of Acer palmatum by cuttings. It is such a shame that through your ignorance you make statements like the one above that can mislead people. I have read several of your post and you seem to be very knowledgeable about Japanese maples for the most part.
I learned how to propagate Acer palmatum from cuttings about 40 years ago from my father and one of his good friends. This man was from Scotland and he had been a propagator at that time for more than 40 years. My father also at that time had been propagating plants for more than 40 years. I have been selling my ‘Bloodgood’ Japanese maples liners wholesale for many years to the same customers and have had no complaints. I also know where at least 3 ‘Bloodgood’ are that I rooted at least 35 years ago that are still in good shape, they are about 8” caliper. One of those were dug and moved about 7 or 8 years ago.
I will have to say that the weeping dissectum’s have not cooperated in rooting with any real success. But I still try a few flats every year hoping to find the right combination. I also see that in myersphcf’s post he list that air-layering works. I think that air-layering would be a rooted cutting?

Sincerely,
Otis

Otis,
Why not share the secret to your success rooting JM? I would be interested.

Disinfect the potting tray and your cuttings tool before preparing the cuttings. Wear sterile gloves when preparing, dipping the cuttings in rooting hormone and sticking the cuttings. After sticking the cuttings and giving the rooting medium its first watering disinfect the soil in the trays with hydrogen dioxide - ZeroTol®. Maintan sufficient humidity and use bottom heat. This is the standard production green house practice.

I don't know if it will work or not, but I have been having a lot of success with an aeropropagator I built this year. I am anxious to try some softwood cuttings from JM this summer. I first tried cuttings in a bubbler with the cuttings in water which some people swear by. But I kept getting algae all over everything. Perhaps I had it too warm and too much light. I finally abandoned that idea and started using the aeropropagator and have been very happy with it.
.

If you can't find a source for ZeroTol maybe you can work out the concentration math for Hydrogen peroxide, which is what Hydrogen dioxide is.

http://epa.gov/pesticides/biopesticides/ingredients/factsheets/factsheet_000595.htm

Found some. Caution is advised.

http://www.dfwx.com/h2o2.htm?gclid=CKfEnvyq4pkCFQ_yDAodjnLNWA

This message was edited Apr 8, 2009 6:33 PM

Billgrubbs check this page.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/743771/

This last year I rooted more 5,000 Japanese maple, I stuck 6,200. This year I hope to stick at least 10,000.

Otis

Otis, thanks for the direction to the link. I read the whole thread. You are amazing. Your success with this approach speaks for itself. What you are doing obviously works well. I don't have a greenhouse, but hope to set up an intermitent mist system in my backyard this year. I have the controller and pipe already. I just need to wait until the right time to take the cuttings. You indicate there is only a narrow window of time to take the cuttings. Can you explain how to tell when it is time to take the cuttings? We could all learn from your experience. I expect since I don't have a greenhouse, I will need some way to keep the humidity up until they root. It would be nice to serve as your apprentice, but Utah is too far away.

First of all, I have to get a parent tree to take cuttings from. You mentioned you were bringing your tree inside. It would have to be a pretty big tree to take 10,000 cuttings from it. Do you keep it inside for the winter so it won't loose it's leaves? Any additional information to help me understand the process would be greatly appreciated. I am just getting started with this and it would be nice not to have to reinvent the wheel. Most things you read about JM is about grafting and here you are successfully rooting cuttings. Isn't the internet a wonderful way to share?

By the way, have you ever tried to root a contorted filbert (Harry Lauder Walking Stick)? They are always grafted. Perhaps they could be grown from cuttings by following your procedures.

Billgrubbs I make my living to support my family by propagating the Japanese maples. I have given all the information out that I'm going to. The cuttings are being taken from several trees all of which I propagated.

Here is a photo of some of the 'Bloodgood' that I rooted last year.

Otis

Billgrubbs, here are some of my 3 year old 3gal 'Bloodgood' the ones in full leaf were left outside all winter. The ones on the right were in my underground storage and were just taken out last week.

Otis

I understand completely. I just appreciate all you have been willing to share. You aren't growing from seed and you aren't grafting which are the options I read about the most. Eveyone else says you can't propagate JM cuttings and here you are doing thousands. Way to go! I am also interested in grafting JM since that is what everyone else is doing, but look at you!

I just bought an acre of land and am looking for something like this to grow. I love JM and am considering growing them, but I am afraid my location is too sunny without some type of shade. I am also intrigued with the contorted filbert.

I have problems with deer eating everything and will need a high fence like I see in your pictures.

Thanks again for your help. I am