Is organing gardening the best method?

I live in Pensacola Florida and have always dreamed of feeding my family of the fruits produced from my garden instead of the store bought produce. I have tried but failed in the past. This year for example I planted 10 tomato plants, at first the plants were doing great but then either the birds or the worms or critters got them before I could try even one, so I started with pesticides and anything I could think of withough any avail so I finally gave up. I've asked many friends that also live in Pensacola how they did this year and they tell me the same thing that they could not grow anything.
I've been doing a lot of research on organic gardening and also raised beds. Acording to many people that have tried it they say that the plants are stronger therefore they produce more and that they withstand critters and diseases better. Also that if you use raise beds you can grow more if your space is limited therefore you end up with more produce.
After a lot of research I ended up purchasing a dvd called organic gardening made easy to see if this would help me.
I guess my question is whether organic gardening works and what I should do different so I can finally grow vegetables?

Carminator, I can tell you that organic gardening DOES work. I don't know what you should do differently, though.

You said in your post that you asked your friends how they did, and your friends also didn't have much luck. But you didn't say if your friends were gardening organically or not. You mentioned that you resorted to pesticides, and still didn't have much luck. So I'm wondering if the problem was organics, or maybe it was just a bad year.

Last year we had a lot of rain and a mild winter. But then it wouldn't warm up in the spring when it was supposed to, and a lot of things suffered. My tomato crop was a total failure. I think I got one scrawny little fruit. Many people around here had the same problem, regardless of whether they're organic or not. It was just a bad year weather-wise for things that need an early start. (Yesterday I had a good crop of green tomatoes on those same plants, but, well, too late, LOL.)

Sometimes it takes a little while to get a good organic program established and working. For me, it took 3 years to see satisfying results. It was a very long 3 years! That was many years ago, and we have much better products and knowledge available now, so it's easier to get started. But if you're starting out under less than ideal conditions, it can still take time to get good, healthy soil built.

I hope you'll give it at least one more year. Last year, I tried lasagna gardening for the first time and had fantastic beds from it. Now is a good time to fill up your bed with leaves and compost, and let it sit over the rest of the winter. You should have very appreciative plants in the spring and summer.

Texas is like Florida in that, in any milder climate, you will always have pests. Here are some organic products I've found over the years that really seem to work.

1) Neem oil. This one covers almost all the pest problems I've had. It also works for black spot and some other fungicidal diseases. Truth is, it's more effective than any chemical I've ever used. It's the first working solution I've ever found for whitefly on my gardenias.

2) Insecticidal soap. This one is for quick shots on less troublesome things like aphids.

3) Bt (different types) for caterpillars and mosquitoes, and several other things.

4) Diatomaceous earth. I use this for the sowbugs and slugs that eat my hostas, with great results. The only drawback is that it has to be reapplied after rain or watering.

5) Seaweed. I mostly use this as a supplemental fertilizer, but some people claim it also works for spider mites.

6) Attitude. This is the most important! I don't treat for pests very often. Unless serious harm is being done to the plant, I don't usually do anything. From those voracious caterpillars come the butterflies that I enjoy watching. Other bugs are part of the food chain. My frogs and lizards are fat and healthy, and they keep infestations under control.

Course, that attitude is more helpful for non-food crops. Sometimes it comes down to tomatoes for you or the hornworms. In that case I hand-pick, or use the neem.

Hope this gives you some ideas. Good luck!

Thank you so much for all your information, actually I don't think my friends use the organic method either. I really think that my problem amongs others was the soil. Here in Pcola we tend to have a very sandy soil and not a lot of nutrients, I did get some manure etc from Home depot but I am sure it was not organic at all. The more I keep researching the more I think I should build up my soil first before planting anything. Thank you so much also for the list of organic insecticides. Hopefully I'll be able to post some pictures of vegetables soon.

Well, the soil certainly does make a big difference! I'm glad you're going to stick with it. Keep us posted.

Pensacola............By all means contact someone or some organization that is or has successful gardeners to help you better understand the soil building issues where you live.
Most successful gardeners are more than willing to hold the hand and coach a newbe. I am absoutely sure you can garden where you are and with the soil you have. It will get better as you add organic matter to your soil and give it time to develop.

You might find this hard to believe but my very well developed garden is within sight of one that failed and another that could be a lot better. Neither gardener has ever walked a hundred yards to ask for a little coaching. Without a doubt I have one of the nicest gardens in the area and have gardened for over fifty years. Both were invited to visit and both were given a few suggestions the first and only time we ever discussed gardening.

Don't listen to the loosers. Get out there and find a good gardener. It will be well worth your time and effort.

You might want to visit the strawbale forums http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/strawbale/all/ and read everything there.

Bale gardening is a good way to get an organic compost bed, and still produce food while building said bed. I did it this year and the raised bed is already gorgeous - and that's after only one season.

I'll second your suggestion, Hastur. I can't believe what a difference the decaying strawbales have made to my beds! Next spring will be my third year using them. I have already set out my new ones to sit over the winter and "perk" and piled up this years to make new bales (2 one-year old ones create one new one for next spring). The two-year old ones make the best compost in both the veggie and flower gardens. I also compost but that takes more work and effort than using the bales to grow my summer crops in and then recycling! When using the strawbales method I use only organic fertilizers like blood meal to "perk" them and get them hot inside. Good luck, Carminator.

The bales are so very much the best, but that does not stop me from a certain amount of composting. I have an inherent dread of wasting vegetables, if I can avoid it, so I'm putting in a turning composter, as well as a chipper/shredder so that I don't waste the dead plants after they are done producing. I think that if you combine the composting with the baling, that you will continually enrich your soil, thus growing better and better vegetables (and flowers too).

Carminator: To answer the original question of whether or not organic gardening works, I believe that the answer is a hearty "YES!" However, you want to find the 'shortcuts' that will allow you to stay organic, but without killing yourself. Hence the bale suggestion.

Another thing that my father used to do in Maine, that was organic, was to make deep rows in the ground and fill them with chicken poop and sawdust. Grew the best potatoes you ever saw, and over the course of the years, the rotting sawdust converted pure clay into some of the best soil ever. And there were no pesticides or stuff like that needed.

Probably the first book I ever read on organic gardening was "Start With The Soil" by Grace Gershuny. She at that time was head of the California organic standards bureau (whatever it was called or is called) and went on to head the organization that first put together the national organic standards (which have always been controversial and under attack and questionable as to how they help or hurt the smaller growers but that is a whole nother can o' worms!)

Anyway , the concept that healthy, living soil naturally grows healthy fruitful plants is to me the basis of organic practice and organic growing.

The soil is alive with a life so very complex even soil scientists do not yet completely understand it........ I could go on and on in my romance with the living soil but will refrain at this time, LOL!

It takes three years to turn unhealthy soil back to self-sustaining organically producing non-toxic soil. The longer you go on using chemical pesticides, herbicides, or even fertilizers, the longer your soil will be compromised.

When I moved in with my mom in coastal NC about ten years ago (she has since passed) and started a garden for her in the sandy deadzone soil of her senior living complex, the first thing we did was build a big ("illegal") compost bin in the back behind her duplex. The second thing we -- read "I" -- did was dig hefty amounts of manure into the soil that was there, down two feet if possible. And add that compost as soon as it was ready, only takes a season to get some out of it if you do it right.

She had the most gorgeous garden and the fattest earthworms came to live there! People in that area would say to me, "Oh, we don't have those earthworms like they do up North." Well, bull. The reason for that is they all were brainwashed lock stock and sprayer by the chemical advertisements and no one but the very few had the nature sense to learn to treat the soil like the living medium it is meant to be.

Okay, I am ranting here and will stop now.

You can grow wonderful bountiful gardens pretty much anywhere, if you take care of the soil first.

That three years? That's how long it takes to get certified, but if you are persistent and use enough amendments to start with, you can see results right away. I did, and so you can.

Hope no one takes my little rant personally; I confess, I am passionate about this subject! LOL!

peaceful gardening to ya,
Kyla

Kyla...........I take your rant personally! Been thirty five years on this property. The first thing I did was ran Mr. Green Thumbs and his poison squirting hoses off this place. Then I bought a tiller and started hauling manures and leaves by the truck load. Have kept that up for each year and still build two tons of compost a year.....nearly every year. The last five years I have used a lot of on site produced aerobic teas. My gardens have organic content of an average fifteen percent. We grow things good and big. My lawns are nicer than most. My soil quality is different from spot to spot but I will say none are less than excellant. The lawns and gardens have not seen a chemical in all those years with the exception of an occasional spot treatment. I say I am 98% organic and the other two percent I lie about. That's why I speak of healthy soil management not organic. Saves me a lot of explaining.

"I think that if you combine the composting with the baling, that you will continually enrich your soil, thus growing better and better vegetables (and flowers too)."

That's a good summary, Hastur. I also don't waste any of my kitchen scraps or weed and grass cuttings. But I marvel at how much easier the straw bales have made the enriching process since I can use them for growing while they are breaking down whereas you have to wait for the compost in my bins to finish. I like the term "healthy soil management" rather than organic.
Around here some of the farmer's get really hot under the collar when you ask them if and what they sprayed on the bales. One of them told me he would not sell me any further bales after I inquired. He considered me some kind of fanatic! He wouldn't even tell me what he sprayed on them! I'm probably better off. I found a more reasonable and cheaper farmer down the road! While my soil cannot compare yet to what Doc is describing I see mine improving every year and am happy with my production. I don't think one can go 100% organic because even the veggies and fruits I compost have been sprayed unless I buy only organic and that is not always possible. The only chemical spray I use anymore is Round Up on poison ivy but I don't like using it. I pull out as much of the poison as I can by hand. Jessica

"I don't think one can go 100% organic because even the veggies and fruits I compost have been sprayed unless I buy only organic and that is not always possible." I totally agree with this, gardadore, and it is one reason I said that whole thing about standards being mighty controversial.

Docgipe, gee, I guess you are quite free to take it personally but it was not meant that way. Sounds to me like you are doing great things...... What I was ranting about was the approach I encountered where people seemed not to get the basic concept at all. And I really meant what I said, my post was not directed personally at anyone, especially anyone here in this forum who cares about gardens and soil.

peace out,
K.

How, I can't believe the number of responses I got in just a week or so! Thank you so much! This is great, the strawbale way of gardening looks prety fascinating! Yes I was definetely worried about how to start, organic compost does take a long time to break down, and to be able to have a good sizable production of vaggies you do need a lot more than you can produce in a year I suppose.
I will definetely try the strawbale method first see how it works for me.

thank you so much for your help, I will definetely keep posting, I am sure I'll have more questions when I get started.

Merry Christmas.

Carmen

Carmen,
Glad to hear that the Straw Bale gardening interests you. If you do decide to try that and want to be "organic" then avoid the Ammonium Nitrate recommended as a means of breaking them down. You can use other natural nitrogen sources. I have used Bloodmeal instead and then a balanced organic fertilizer on the 10th day. That has worked beautifully. The important thing is to keep them moist.
Another type of gardening that seems to work very well in Florida is the Earthboxes. Check out the Forum on "Self Contained Box Gardens". The "guru" of Earthbox growing is also from Florida so he can be a big source of help to you. Just stick with organic fertilizers and you will be amazed at the results. I do both Straw Bale and Earthbox gardening in addition to regular planting in the earth but must admit that the Straw Bales and Earthboxes do produce generally better results for plants like tomatoes, eggplants and peppers. Good Luck! Jessica

Thank you gardadore, yes yesterday I was looking at the straw bale forum din't have time to read all of it but I did want to do it the organic way, so I was looking for a good organic recipe instead of the one given in that forum. I am also interested in doing raised beds I have heard a lot of people like them as well, I found this on the interent yesterday when I was looking for a good organic recipe to do the strawbale gardening. http://www.no-dig-vegetablegarden.com/raised-vegetable-garden.html. It looks interesting. On another note, acording to the strawbale forum it seems you can use them for 2 years and after that you just break them down to the ground right? Well my question is once you break them down can you use the straw bale in raise beds to amend the soil or to start a new raise bed. Also is it really worth the expense to do grow beds instead of just planting directly to the soil? My husband is not conviced that I need raise beds and wants me to try the conventional method of just planting directly in the ground, but my concern is that I have 2 dogs and little kids and I don't want them to get in my vegetable garden.

Carmen

Carmen,
I can only use the straw bales the second year if I take 2 one-year old straw bales from the previous year and put them together. I usually do this in the fall after the first season. Since I put metal cages around all my bales it is very easy to fill up the cages with the one year old straw to the height on one new straw bale and plant in that. I then add a general organic fertilizer rather than the nitrogen since they are already broken down. My two-year old straw is almost like compost and makes a terrific soil conditioner for your regular beds or raised beds. Of course you can also plant directly in it but then it is at ground level. I usually remove it, add it to my regular gardens, and place a new bale on that spot.
You will probably find after the first year that the composting straw is full of earthworms. Fantastic for your soil. If you are worried about pets and children getting into the garden the cages around the bales will help contain them. The cages also keep the plants like squash and melons from flopping onto the ground. Over the years my husband has bought 2 ft by 100 ft of metal caging with 1" spaces and cut them down to make round cages. I also go to the Home Depot and buy 5 ft. metal caging with 2" (?) spaces sprayed with green plastic. It is lighter, easier to handle and cuts down easily. I stake this around 3 sides of the bales for the tomatoes and run the two ft wire on the fourth front side.
Raised beds just make it easier to feed and water plants but you don't need to start out that way if you already have decent soil. The Earthboxes do cost money but I find them so practical since I understand you have problems in Florida with nematodes, fungus and other hot weather concerns. You can add these some other year after trying the straw bales first!
There is a huge amount of info on the Strawbale forum especially if you go all the way back to the beginning. Some people have written about their organic approach and I made a synopsis of what sounded best for me. I will d-mail it to you. Maybe it will help!
Jessica

I forgot to mention, I already have 4 earthboxes, I really like them but I only got to try them in my old house not on this house. my old house used to have a lot of shade and not enough sunlight plus the critters completely demolished my tomatoes, I did prety good with sugar snap peas though. The earthboxes are prety expensive though.
Thank you Jessica for all your help, can't wait to get started.


Carmen