How much can tubers take?

My dahlias lasting longer was a curse I guess, as far as taking them out. I have one major bed to do yet, and when I just went to spray the water from the hose to clean one off, it was just a trickle. It was then I realized the hose was getting more and more full of ice. Can't find any other available effective method of cleaning them, I was hoping to get some favorites out today in lieu of what's coming. Its going to snow likely tonight/tomorrow, not much, but then its going down to 15F Sunday night. After that it warms up enough I think that I could finish the job maybe next weekend, but will that really cold weather ruin them? What is the limit they can stand? It was already like 24F last night and there were some ice crystals in the soil today, would it take a complete ground freeze?

NO! The tubers themselves, if exposed to frost, will develop white fungus overnight. In the ground it will take longer to freeze because the earth is still warm. My sister-in-law remembers digging dahlias with an icepick. As long as they don't freeze the clump is alright.

Todger...Just my thoughts...
While I've not tested their limits, I've come pretty close and I think a complete ground freeze would do them in. Personally, I'd get them out of the soil asap, even if you just have to throw them all in a cart or something you can keep in an above freezing location until you can get to clean them.

Like everyone else, I like to enjoy the blooms as long as I can, so by the time I go to dig my tubers and lily bulbs, ALL other autumn chores also have to be done very quickly. We get cold much earlier than many areas and it's not a slow process. If we're lucky, we get maybe 3 weeks of fall, then snow can come anyday. (It's not a pretty picture and my DH usually ducks as I cruise by like crazy woman on my broom). So the tubers get dug, along with anything else I plan to save (lilies, begonias, callas) and they go in the garage on garden carts where I can work on them as I have time over the next week. The motivation is my car can't go in the garage till everything is cleaned and stored.

By this point, we are into freezing temps and the hose has been drained and put away. I choose not to use the garage sink (too much soil into the septic system), so my tubers never get rinsed. (collective gasp...) They get a good brushing, then get dusted with fungicide. Rinsing is just not an option with the parameters I have to work with.

So my opinion is that getting them out of the ground is priority, unless you are absolutely positive Mother Nature is going to give you that little warm up session that's predicted.

Whew-Cross posts with totally differing opinions...LOL
I guess another factor to consider is depth of soil, ours is fairly shallow with perma frost underneath.

Maybe I should clarify the above, If the ground freezes and the tubers freeze, they are done. But if you get an inch of so or frozen earth and the tubers aren't touched by frost, they will be OK. Best to get them dug and inside ASAP. I have never washed the tubers in over thirty years of growing. I just put them into storage with the dirt on the clump.

DD - That would mean a lot less work for me and I did do it that way long ago but began cleaning them in the hopes of finding eyes. Do you wait until they sprout in spring before you divide them?

Todgor - if you cut any back PLEASE cover the top of the stem with foil or Saran Wrap and close with a twist tie. The one year I didn't do that we didn't have a frost yet but then came freezing rain, which got into the stem and killed them.

The idea of just digging (remembering to keep the label) and put them in a wheelbarrow in the garage. Good luck! Please let us know how you work it out.

Pirl, I never cut them until I am going to dig them. There's a product for you, plastic Dahlia Stem Caps! :) At least I tried a shorter hose and I was up and running again. 28 or so to go... How does anyone do one of these proper-like (dig, wipe off dirt, wash, cut roots, label) in under 20 minutes anyway? I can't seem to get more than 12 done in a 6 hour period in this cold.

Thanks but I dug mine out weeks ago just to avoid having to dig in freezing weather. I do dig up a whole area of them, shake off the dirt and bring them into the garage so I'm just doing 4 or 6 at a time. The most I did in one day was 12.

Pirl, After a killing frost, I let the tubers damp off by leaving them in the ground for about ten days. Then I cut the plants off leaving a 5" or 6" stalk; move the tags to the stumps and pull the stakes; dig the clumps and shake the loose dirt off pour the water out of the stalks; let them sit in the garage for a week or so to dry; then I put them in my basement root cellar. I always divide them in the spring - Feb, Mar, or Apr. Ideally the storage temp should be as close 35˚— 40˚ as possible. I find that if I can keep the temp at 50˚ I'm doing good. I run a humidifier in the room and try to keep it like 40%.

Brrr todgor and chocolatemoose. I don't live in an early or hard freeze area, but I'm with Ddigger thinking that a hefty layer of leaves or other mulch over each root zone would protect your tubers well enough if you must leave them in for another week or so,Todgor. It sounds like your coming cold spell will be brief enough not to freeze the soil too deeply.

Glad you got your wash station up again Tod. For alternate washing, in past really cold digging years, I've put a couple large 5 gallon buckets of water in the garage with a space heater :) at my side and 'swished' the clump as clean as I could get it, removing bits of soil with a squirt bottle where I need to see to cut. The buckets can be refilled in the house as needed. It's really messier than doing the cleaning outdoors, but you do what you have to do.

I've read that some people using air compressors vs water to get the soil off tubers. I'd be doing about 2 clumps a day using that method on our sodden, muddy clumps. 15/day is about my max unless I have poor tuber turnout on a clump, then I can crank it up to 20.

Dahliadigger, is the white fungus you speak of sort of threadlike? I had some on one clump cut off for over 3 weeks (a duplicate plant I wasn't going to dig at all, but I can't let a dahlia go to waste, so.....I dug it up yesterday.) Having sat in our wet soil for that time, that was the one that had some white (what I assume is a fungus) on a couple tubers and the soil clinging to them. No way they froze in there though, and they weren't exposed to air.-We haven't even had foiliage freeze to date. Hoping that my final bleach rinse will kill off whatever the white threads prove to be. Do you know what organism causes such?

I didn't take a chance with mine. After a light frost killed them, and a low of 15º was predicted, my son & I dug them all in an hour. We put each clump in a 5 gallon pail & put the marker stake in with it. Anyone around carried the pails into the heated greenhouse.
Then at my leisure I got them ready for storage. Took about 2 weeks working when I had a chance. I checked them a couple days ago & they are looking good. I used the saran warp method.

Personally, I would get them out of the ground!

Bernie

Alas, I can't just dig a big divot and clean it later. Since I got raised beds filled with "Nutrasoil", a mixture of compost and sand, they don't hold together. So I have to clean them off pretty good before lifting or they will be torn apart. Don't have a garage either, no space on the basement floor, only two 5 gallon buckets. The mulch layer might save them though. Did I say how much I hate scraping off frozen mulch, ugh! That has to come off before digging, which adds a bit of time.

Todger...I'm confused & curious...What is it that doesn't hold together and would be torn apart? The soil in the raised beds or the tuber clumps?

Seeing our weather forecast all I can do is wish you the very best! Try and stay warm.

Yes, its the soil clump that won't hold together. If I pick it up in a big clump containing the tubers, the soil will fall apart in smaller clumps, snapping the tubers' necks as it drops. Thanks for the warm wishes pirl, I think it will only be sub-20 for a matter of hours and only tonight. They bumped up Wednesday high to 56 degrees, if rain is less likely I may try to take a day off to extract some.

It's been horrendous here today with a wind chill of 21 and as I heard one landscaper still hard at work (all day yesterday and today) I thought of you, todgor, and how you must be freezing outside. Let's hope you can save them all.

I didn't attempt any work outside, I have poor circulation, just too brutal with that wind. Hope they do OK.

An hour ago, when I woke up, I checked and saw 5 degrees wind chill and thought of you! I hope they survive for you.

Todgor - please post and let us know how digging the dahlias went!

Hi pirl! It actually turned out very well, I took off the Wednesday after the super-cold when it went up to 60 degrees, and did about half then. The frost only had gotten down about 3 inches, so they were OK. It was raining a bit here and there, but that actually helped a lot, the soil was very loose. Then I did all but 3 last weekend (3 duds anyway), they got covered in the snow now. So they are all wrapped, bagged and boxed. Why am I increasing my count for next year, why?! :) Don't know how anyone deals with more than this!

Hurray! I'm so glad it worked out for you...and for the dahlias.

Yay for you Tod! I've been watching the mess in the east- the ice storm and the power outage affecting so many. Glad Mother Nature cooperated with your digging. I just finished the last of the tubers last Friday: the latest date ever, but thankfully no snow, no freezes during the whole hideous process. Too much for my taste.
And now to move on to 09---- the fun part!
Stay warm all!

Safe & Happy Holidays to all!!!!

Yes it's shopping time now ^_^ and since now it is spring, time to start planning for the 'Wakening of the Dahlias' although that probably makes Tod and Pooch weary as they just finished putting theirs to bed.

Mine will be in "bed" for a while yet.
Spring in MN starts around mid April.

I cheat CG wiith an indoor grow-op for sprouting and a greenhouse. I usually wake them up in March.

Ah what lengths I will go through to fit more dahlias. I did some research on most efficient circle packing in a unit square - why? Because the plants would occupy a roughly circular area, so you could use circle packing to get the most efficient use of space. So I want to expand my large section into one giant bed 20' x 40', effectively two squares. Using the info on a circle packing page, I could pack 140 30 inch circles into that area, with five rows of 16 and 4 interlocked rows of 15. A nice hexagonal packing, the most efficient possible.

todgor - Merry Christmas and I do hope Santa fills your garden with dahlias! You just may have been up wrapping presents a bit too long!

Merry Christmas pirl, and all! Well, I am a late person! :) On that theme, so many sellers starting late this year, I have to do something to fit all the additions. Also I really like the construction projects.

I have absolutely no doubt that you enjoy it!

Merry Christmas or Happy 12/26, as I like to say,
Having just finished tuber processing in Mid December, the latest ever, I am already looking forward to Spring!

I know firsthand you can easily cram those dahlias in a 30" or less space and still shimmy in betweeen plants to tend them well enough, Todgor. If I can do it, so can you. Dahlia plants are pretty forgiving if one takes care moving amongst them.
Happy Holidays all. I've placed my first order: new kid on the dahlia-selling block which is no easy feat:
www.TheDahliaGuy.com for reduced prices on quite a few popular varieties. And tomorrow I will offer up my own dahlia-sharing thread in light of the rotten economy: time to spread the love.

I second the happy 12/26!

In early November (maybe late October) I placed my first order with Lynch Creek and now it's time to get serious about ordering more so I'll check out your link and look forward to your new thread.

Wow, you get the early bird award for ordering way back when, Pirl!

I have to wait on an answer from Dave before I can do my new thread. Since it's DAVE'S BIRTHDAY that response may not get here today. Wish Dave a Happy Birthday here- he does an awful lot for all of us.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/935418/