Crazy indoor thrip infestation

I'm sure someone has posted about this before, but as DG has disabled the forum search feature, I couldn't find any through browsing.
Anyways... My houseplants all are infected--I think its thrips, they are tiny and gray/white with what looks like wings... Anyways, it started on my philodendron, and they are just decimating it, and they've moved on to my faux palm and even my orchid in a different room. I've sprayed the philo with one of those commercial neem/detergent mixes, but it barely made a dent. I wiped down my poor orchid with soapy water (its little enough I can get each leaf), but they're back and its dropping leaves like crazy.
The second problem is that I live in an apt with a tiny porch, so my outdoor plants are taking up space on it...and they're all covered with bugs too (mealybugs and scale on my sago palms, aphids on my basil/chives). Does anyone have any indoor treatment suggestions (that won't completely stink us out of the house!)?
If I wasn't totally against it, at this point I want to bomb the whole house... How does one apartment have so many bugs??

I'd also consider that they may be whiteflies and not thrips...thrips are very tiny and a lot of the time you won't even see them, just the damage they do. Whiteflies are another common pest that would fit your description and they're much easier to see. Here's some info on whiteflies http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7401.html and thrips http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7429.html

For controlling them, first thing is to figure out for sure what you have and then look at the label on the products you've been using and make sure it lists the type of bugs that you have. In most cases you will have to repeat the treatment--the first time around you'll get a bunch of the bugs that are on the plant at the moment, but you always miss a few which can continue to reproduce, and depending on what type of bug they are there are likely new ones in different life stages that may be hiding under the leaves, in the soil, etc and won't get hit the first time, but then in a few weeks they'll grow up and the infestation will be right back. Or the other thing you could consider would be a systemic (don't use this on anything you intend to eat though) I normally don't advocate the use of systemic insecticides, but when I get severe infestations in my greenhouse in the winter I will sometimes use them and they might work for your plants since it sounds like you've got a lot of problems going on--Bayer 3 in 1 is probably the most common brand, but look for anything with imidacloprid as the active ingredient.

Thanks! From looking at the UCDavis pics, I'm almost positive they're thrips...either greenhouse or western flower... I need a magnifying glass to tell the difference. Maybe I'll take the list of what treatment I have versus the imadacloprid and go find my nearest non-organic nursery... I'm still not sure how I'm going to spray/coat these plants without moving them onto the porch, maybe I'll move everything onto the porch and try to treat all the bugs at once? I'm afraid of getting mealybugs or aphids on my already extremely unhappy indoor plants... hmm

OSH seems to always carry the Bayer 3-in-1 if you decide to go with the systemic...I haven't seen it as much at other places but I see it there every time I go to pick up my Safer soap (my usual insecticide of choice).

Hi weezerific, I'm almost certain I'm dealing with an indoor thrips infestation too. What I have is extremely tiny and white. (They're about 1/10th to 1/4 the size of a fruit fly). I realized I had them and started treating with Neem and being patient, knowing it would take several weeks to wipe them out. Then, a couple days later, it seemed the population had exploded.
I hate(d) to spray anything too, but that day I started looking into using a bug bomb. Someone had told me that flea bombs for cats contain pyrethrin, so I started looking into it. But, when I realized how much trouble that was going to be, I decided maybe I'd just spray the topside of everything with pyrethrin (since I am coating both sides with Neem). I did hit everything Monday with pyrethrin and knocked the population way back. I am starting to see new ones though, they were probably in the larval stage under the leaves or pupating in the soil.

*Does anyone know how often it is safe to spray with a .02 pyrethrin/.2 piperonyl butoxide mix? I did have some minor damage to some plants from the spray and my ferns may have died (dumb me, for forgetting to skip them).

When I went back to Lowe's to restock my arsenal, I was dismayed to find that everything was outside, as it had been all summer. (The botanical products can become ineffective when exposed to extreme temps.) So I figured I'd just get some at Walmart, but they didn't have any.

*I DID find some Hot Shot 'Kitchen Bug Killer' spray. It has the same ingredients, but when I got home & compared labels, I found out the concentrations are 5x stronger (.1 pyrethrin/1.0 piperonyl butoxide). It makes no mention of spraying plants with it. It also lists 'other ingredients' 98.9%-so, I really wonder what else is in it and if this would work or if I should just return it. Does anyone want to weigh in with an opinion on that?

So, to sum up, my plan is to use Neem weekly for 3-4 weeks and pyrethrin weekly for 2-3 weeks simultaneously, then only use Neem, every 2 weeks, as a repellent. I can post my results, if you are interested.
I was so careful (I thought) all summer, changing out of my clothes in the kitchen, being careful of what order I visited my basement nursery, my greenhouse and my indoor nursery so as not to carry pests inadvertently from one spot to the other. I'd never been familiar with thrips. I've since learned that they can easily pass through a window screen, like roses (which grow under my window), are attracted to the color blue (like my blue porch light, my blue neon kitchen clock, the blue nightlight in the bedroom where I slept with the window open every night, etc.) I guess they took me up on my obvious invitations! ; ) Now, I'd just really like to see them gone!

I'd be interested to hear your results. I went to homedepot and they didn't have any 3in1...I talked to their resident plant guy, and he basically said I should go to a private nursery and get a good systemic from them. Unfortunately, I'm going out of town for 3 weeks, and my roommate doesn't know squat about plants--he's going to water whenever his schedule tells him to. I'm worried I'm going to get back and my dracaena and orchid will be completely dead. I'm going to neem one more time and hope it knocks them down enough to let my plants survive until I get back!

Do you not have OSH in your area? They always have it. I have a friend in LA and they've got OSH there so I assumed they were in all the major cities

Ecrane, this fall I dosed everything in the greenhouse with Bayer 3 in one and so far everything is clean! The six weeks was up last week so they are all getting another shot in a few days.

This is the first winter that I haven't hit the floor running trying to control pests in the gh. It's usually the brugmansias that get hit the worst. So far they are all pristine and looking beautiful. That stuff works.

X

I wanted to update my post, but have not had the time. I'll plan to do so soon.
X: what are the active ingredients in Bayer 3 in one?

When I went to the utility room to see the ingredients I realized it was Bayer Advanced All In one. I then remembered I used it because you couldn't buy the 3 in 1 in large quantities. It has the same stuff as 3 in 1 but food too. The active ingredients for it are Tebuconazole: 0.80% Imidadoprid: 0.15%. It is systemic. Here is a link for it:

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/product/All-In-One-Rose-Flower-Care/concentrate.html

It's good for 6 weeks and the 6 weeks is right on the dot. I was using it on my Confederate Roses which usually croak by July because of whiteflies. I timed it so the plant would be clear of the product when it started producing flower buds so it wouldn't poison bees, butterflies and hummers. Once the 6 weeks was up from the last application, it took less than a week for the whiteflies to start appearing, so when they say good for 6 weeks they mean it.

Expensive but worth it in my opinion. As I said, this is the first year since I've had the greenhouse I haven't been in a life and death battle with bugs.

X

Thanks for the link. It seems I always take the hard road. I want to keep it organic--and, what I grow is primarily edibles, so that wouldn't work. : (
(It used to be so nice-I grow a lot of my herbs indoors and I could just harvest the leaves and use them--I didn't even have to wash them!)

Do you know about Pyola? It's organic. I've used it in the greenhouse with moderate success. You have to keep spraying though. Since you aren't dealing with bunches of different type plants all stuffed in a greenhouse and touching each other, it might be just the thing for you. You'll want to spray each plant top and bottom til dripping. It has a definite odor, but its not overpowering or bad.

http://www.gardensalive.com/product.asp?pn=8101&ss=pyola

X

Well, it is kind of a greenhouse situation with different kinds of plants in close contact--it's just that I live in it too!
Thank you for the link. I looked it up and the active ingredients in pyola are pyrethrins & canola oil :( This particular strain of thrips is pyrethrin resistant.
I'm finding there is no 'magic bullet'. It is proving to be very labor intensive to control them, but I have made significant headway.
First, I got rid of any badly infested plants, then I bagged the pots of the rest. A few times, because I was seeing so many flying, I rigged the hose of my vacuum up near the shelves and turned it on for a couple of hours. The HEPA filter keeps them from exiting the vacuum when it's on.
I have been spraying the soil surface with a sulfur spray a couple times a week, bagging the pots (in 'Baggies' and tying them around the stem with string), and periodically (about weekly) removing them to soak the entire pot and spray whatever rises to the top with sulfur, and change the baggie.
I have also been spraying the upper part of the plants with soap spray every 2 days (3 max--important) and sometimes adding neem to the spray. I hit everything with a water spray many times each day too.
Every couple of days, when I use the soap spray, I change the plants' trays and wash and bleach them and disinfect the shelves.
I also trim off damaged leaves. I have found that, on some plants, if I have strong backlighting I can actually see the egg masses inside the leaf tissue so, of course, I remove those leaves too. (The surface of these leaves has a warty appearance.) Sometimes, on the stems or leaf veins, I find what look like brown rasped areas and I remove these. I suspect they may be where eggs are laid too.
I have calculated that I will have to do this for 60 days from the day I bagged the last pot (which breaks the life cycle, since most will pupate in the soil). The benefit of using these methods is that I don't believe they can develop any resistance to them!
I was going to make a detailed post but have been really busy (doing everything I listed above!!). So, that's the short story. I'll be glad to elaborate on my procedures or share what I've learned about this particular type of thrips if anyone is interested. Just post or dmail me.

I would think that the canola oil would smother them with or without the pyrethrins. When I lived in the UK I remember some of my neighbors used some kind of smoke thingy for suffocating insects. If I can get my old brain in gear and find the lost memory I'll let you know.

X

Yes, you're right. Soap spray and oil spray work on the same principal. I think you have to be a little more careful with oil so you don't burn foliage, but if you know the right concentration to use, you should be able to make it cheaply at home. You can even use a little oil in your soap spray. (I use Murphy's Oil Soap original formula--I've had problems with Safer Soap spray burning foliage.)
I'd be interested in learning about smoking bugs out. I had come across something very old that talked about smoking bugs out of greenhouses--I believed they used tobacco or sulfur. I think either of them would be effective against these thrips. I've also read that spinosad should be effective. The important thing is that anything they can develop a resistance to should be put into a rotation with other chemicals to prevent that.