Strawbalers, This Is Why I Joined DG Today - Help!

Greetings Ya'll:

Thank you in advance for your thoughts, my name is Lynn and I live just south of Charlotte, NC. I have a passion for Land, and special knack for Land Analysis and Real Estate and have been doing is since my early 20s. With all that's happening, nationwide and here in my little “neck of the woods,” I have seen a tremendous amount of economic hardship with families. I live in a neighborhood with over 250 acres developed and master planed and another 200 acres to be developed, economy permitting. In my county, it's still the 5th fastest growing in the US. And, it's mind blowing the numbers of people that are still flocking to the Carolinas, because we have the healthiest home markets. Well, we are very devastated economically. And, my concern is with the great numbers of folks that recently transplanted to my community, there is a tremendous amount of joblessness showing up. And, the effect on the families is heartbreaking. Needless to say, I don't see things getting better, and it's going to be a rough 2009. First, many people don't know how to grow fruits and vegetables! They don't even know where to begin and it's overwhelming! Many people who live in neighborhoods have covenants and restrictions that control what they can do in their own yards.

My neighborhood is VERY restrictive! We are on County Water and Sewer. And, with being governed by HOA Laws, it is unwise to break or bend the rules. Straw Bale Gardening Is The Answer To My Prayers!!!! In addition to neighborhood Covenants and Restriction, our County, along with all of the Charlotte, NC surrounding Counties, has been under rigid water restrictions with penalties! However, in the worst of our restriction times this past year, residents could always use watering containers for their shrubs and beds. And, when watering restrictions would lighten up, garden beds are the first to be allowed water (not lawns).

I believe I can bring Straw Bale Gardening into my community and it will help so many families who are showing signs of hardship. So, I hope you are willing to share your opinions. Land is my passion and I study path of progress and Urban development with a concentration on sustainable communities and emerging mature population of baby boomers. Theres a part of my neighborhood where 55 homes were built for the needs of seniors. Zero (0) lot line cottages with postage stamp lots. As a single mother of two, I happened to buy my home in this section, but I'm an exception. I'm already seeing folks struggle with groceries and food costs. Since we have 5 national builders in this community, there's a range in values. But, in Waxhaw, my town, the amount of new neighborhoods and new home development is mind blowing! Many of these people have transplanted from other states and are now experiencing layoffs and job loss. Not to mention that we are seeing new home builders slashing prices up to six figures on some homes! We are now seeing a huge amount of preforclosures and foreclosures in homes above $250,000!

With all this said, I am on a mission to put together darn near "idiot proof" instructions on straw bale gardens. And, teach folks how to be more sustainable and keep food on the table. My parents had me when they were older, and both survived "The Great Depression." Too many people are hitting panic and with fear and hopelessness, they don't know how easy it is to start a garden. And, as far as HOAs and Restrictions are concerned, I believe even the strictest Covenants and Restrictions won't be violated by Straw Bale Gardens.

So, I'm going to ask a bunch of questions. I've researched and gathered a great many articles. And I'll note all those links at the end so you know what I've been looking at. But here are some questions, I've not seen answered.

1. For an average family of 4, how many properly planted straw bales can sustain a family.

2. Based on the above question, if you had to come up with a planting selection, planting mixture, ratio, and template, how would you go about this. Most vegetables will start yielding in 90 days. Right?

3. With nutrition being paramount, what would your ratio be relative to greens, squash, beans, potatoes and other vegetables. Remember, I want to accomplish a template for a benchmark.

4. I can see that some of you are building frames and finding more success with framing. Is this because of temperature issues? I might be able to present a framing unit drawing to my association for approval. If they approve one, then others can be approved. But, remember, cost is such an issue with some families. Also, putting flowering seeds and herbs on the sides of the bales will help make them more aesthetically pleasing.
Can you give me an idea, based on above questions, what kind of costs you have incurred?

5. I know pine straw is not effective. Also, synthetic string that does not rot and break down is best. Some of the articles I've noted say to put the bales onto plastic. Do you agree?

6. I almost want to standardize a "kit." Any thoughts you can give me would be wonderful.

7. Another thought I have would be to dedicate one bale to herbs. Have any of you done this?

8. Which melons do well? Strawberries? Also, I understand that the root plants as well as corn don't do well... Do you have a list of Yeahs and Neighs?

Here in the Carolinas, our growing season starts early. And the bale prep is at least 10 weeks. I've got a lot of work to do!

Thank you so much for your kindness and advice. I believe, people will survive the toughest of times, if we help each other. And, I'm hoping, with your help, to be able to make a difference, not only for my little family, but for others near me.

I look forward to hearing from you!

L

www.images.meredith.com-bhg-pdf-gardening-hardiness-hzm_NothCarolina.pdf
www.smallfarms.ifas.ufl.edu-crops-hydroponics-manufacturers_and_suppliers.html
www.carolinacountry.com-cgardens-thismonth-march06guide-StrawBales3.06.pdf
www.carolinacountry.com-cgardens-thismonth-march07guide-StrawBales3.07.pdf
www.carolinacountry.com-cgardens-thismonth-march08guide-StrawBale3.08.pdf
www.robertkourik.com-images-bookPDF-edible105.pdf

Good luck. I will be trying it for the first time in the spring so I can't really help you. Hopefully some one else will chime in.

Lynn I would just keep watching this thread for all the info. I just became a bale gardener this past year but am hooked. The only crops I tried were tomatoes and peppers in the bales. I was VERY satisfied with the tomatoes but not at all with the peppers. I don't think root crops such as potato's or carrots would be very good but others may have had success. Next year I plan on growing both squash and cucumbers in bales too with pumpkins going after the squash go away. As far as herbs, I think they will grow almost anywhere and in a lot of cases the poorer the soil the better for some of them. I think you have a wonderful idea and purpose and I salute your fortitude!!! Good luck and feel free to ask any one of us questions!

Doug

Lynn, welcome to the hunt! Will write more when I can get caught up. Relatives coming down the drive way from Wilmington, NC. Plus, I gotta sample the turkey that my bride just took out of the oven! :-)

Kent

Lynn,
Great questions and I hope you succeed with your article or "idiot-proof instructions". I will be looking forward to reading it. I'll be trying strawbale gardening for the first time this year. I've been wanting to do it ever since I first started reading about it here on DG, but life in general just keeps getting in the way...like moving. Anyway, this year, I'm even more determined to try it because I've got almost two acres to do it in. The ground here is almost rock solid clay so it would be too costly to try and amend the soil.

I had tried container gardening this past summer, but because of the drought it didn't work out very well. I even used water crystals in the soil. We were only allowed to water 25 minutes from midnight to 10 a.m. 3 days a week, but I was trying to save our Japanese Red Maple, Lilac, rose bushes, azaleas, and other trees and shrubs that I spent most of my time alternately watering those. The heat was so intense this year that nothing really starting performing well until early fall. I managed to purchase and install two rain barrels, which helped tremendously. When it did rain those filled up within minutes.

My biggest challenge will be affording the purchase of the strawbales for as much as I would like to plant, but I suppose I ought to start out small and get the experience down first before I try too much at one time. What do you more experienced strawbaling gardeners recommend I start out with (other than tomatoes)? What vegetable plants should I avoid?

FrauSnow

Hello there. Long time away, and finally a chance to catch up on the forums.

Lynn: I grew some corn and cucumbers in bales this year. It was a MAJOR experiment for me, and I wanted to work on creating a bed that I can use in the future, and the bales worked so far.

The corn grew very tall, and produced about four ears per plant. This surprised me as I was also growing some corn in containers and those only averaged two ears per plant. The ears were large, plump, and my husband and I enjoyed devouring them, since they tasted so good. In addition, when Ike hit us, I had 45 degree corn, but the four plants in the bales did not get uprooted. Knocked over, yes, but not uprooted. After the storm I was able to straighten them, put in a bit of dirt to hold them straight, and they thrived.

And then there were the cucumbers. Oh, my were there cucumbers.

I'm in Houston and had 12 cucumber plants going in bales, and they were growing pretty well. I had seen some little cukes and a lot of flowers, so I figured everything was going just fine until the storm hit. Ike tore out 6 of my 12 plants. Personally, I'm surprised it didn't take out all of them. Apparently they were slightly sheltered by the corn.

Once the storm went away, I would go out every day to look at the cukes. The nice weather that followed the storm prompted a flurry of growth and blooms and then... cukes.

My husband and I are not big pickle fans so we ate the cukes. We had cucumbers for breakfast, cucumber sandwiches for lunch, salted cukes for dinner, raw cukes as a snack, cukes for the friends, cukes for the cats (they objected), cukes for the neighbors, and cukes for everyone that showed up at the door. And these were not the little 6-8" cukes that you would expect. They were HUGE.

Lessons learned from my first year: Bales are awesome, and apparently cucumbers really like the bales.

Hastur,
Wonder if it'll help to drive a stake or rebar through the bale into the ground to keep the bales upright during storms? But in the case of the corn, I guess it was a good thing that they fell over. I was considering growing some corn...maybe I'll give it a go, too.

JoAnn

Lynn, I think before you get to wound up in strawbale gardening that you better find out if it is allowed in your area. Sounds like you have pretty strict covenents. I would hate to see you put a lot of effort and money into this and then end up having to get rid of it.

I don't want to put a damper on your plans either.

Jeanette

Frausnow: The bales themselves didn't fall over, actually. Just the corn. The wind was so strong it knocked the corn over, partly, making the 45 degree angle. But the corn had a good enough root structure that it didn't actually uproot.

Lynn: You might consider putting a bed with bales in the back yard at first, so that you can 'hide' the plantings from the neighborhood. Basically, you would then be able to show the neighbors your great garden while still adhering to the codes of the HOA. I'm lucky that my HOA is not that restrictive, but I still am waiting to put bales out front, until I can buld a nice bed to surround the hay with, so that it will look more decorative than anything.

For those of you that are wondering about root vegetables.......I tried onions. They did ok, I even had 1 big fat onion that was very tasty. We are planning to try more root veggies. This was our first bale garden and we are very pleased. Kent got me hooked with pictures of his! Great tomatoes, peppers and squash! We had 10 bales and will probably double that this coming spring.

Hrmmm... I was going to hold off on Root veggies until I had built up beds, but now you have me wondering. Loose hay/straw for potatoes, for example.....

I would think the root vegetables would work if the straw/hay were decomposed pretty good.

Jeanette

The straw was very decomposed. That onion was so good, it was aggravating that there was only one! I also had petunias still blooming in bales, long after harsh frosts.

I think you sold Hastur. LOL

Jeanette

Hehe. I've been sold on bales since the great cucumber explosion of 2008. I'm already planning to lay in a LOT more bales next month, so they can season, and have created and tossed about 5 different plans for what to plant where. The only thing for certain is that I want corn in the front yard, specifically so that my husband can use it for Halloween decorations after harvest.

The root veggies though.... I never thought of that... too cool.

Remember Hastur, pictures, pictures, pictures.

Did you guys see Lena's garden in New Zealand? Those plants are gorgeous.

Jeanette

I used grass hay bales and had better luck with them than with the straw bales. Less "weeds" in the grass bales and all I did to prep was wet them and wait a week. Every now and again I would make a smear for the top with rabbit manure. I grew squash, tomatoes, eggplants and peppers. They all did well. After the season was over, I broke up the bales and the second season I put new bales on top of that. They did well again. After that season, I broke up the bales and over the following winter I covered it all with a 4" to 6" blanket of composted horse manure and sawdust. Everything grew like crazy in the mixture. Think I'll start a new bed with new bales this year in addition to my established bed. Then I'll go through the same 3 year process again and hope for the same great results.

Best of luck with your project. Go with heirlooms so you can save seeds from year to year. That will cut down on expenses for following years.

My tomatoes in the 3rd year bed.

Cajun: great post!

I am definitely looking to get some grass/hay bales for this year.

And, I'm constantly looking around for some old sawdust.

Wish you lived closer. I've got truckloads of it piled up to be hauled off.

Jnette: Sorry about the pictures - or lack thereof. I FINALLY figured out how to use my camera, so I'll be posting for the 2009 winter/spring run. Unfortunately, that does nothing for this year.

Cajun: Your tomatoes are stunning. The grass is definitely doing well.

That was back in the summer. Nothing but a few onions growing now. I am making my plans for Spring. Getting some trades done and then I'll make my order to Baker Creek Farms. They have some really neat things and shipping is cheap. Plus, it's all heirlooms. I like that.

Here is my 7yo DGS tilling in his GGF's garden in La last summer.

Cajun: great pic! Start'em out young.

One of my fondest memories as a kid is walking behind my Daddy while he plowed our garden with a mule.

The cool soil on my bare feet felt so good.

And there is nothing like the smell of fresh turned dirt in the Spring. It holds so much promise.

Lynn Cooper,
I tried to read your posts and none of them would work. Maybe they have been taken down by this time.
I think you will have to do some education with the HOA as well as the homeowners on the kinds of food they will need to survive. Besides, if there are wholesale foreclosures occurring, the HOA has more trouble than what is being planted in the yard. We are coming into a time where organizations such as a HOA will have to reassess their restrictive rules. I think, with proper education and help from some of the state agriculture services, you should be able to grow almost anything.
Bruce Wilkinson, "Prayer of Jabez," has gone to Africa, using some of the proceeds from his book to alleviate hunger. He has stated a family of 4 can avoid starvation with a garden plot the size of a door, hence he has called them his, "Door Gardens."
I would avoid planting too much corn. It takes too much space for the amount of food produced. You could plant corn and pole beans together. The beans will climb the corn.
Winlinson uses spinach in his gardens because of the high food value. Potatoes have a very high food value and can be prepared many ways.
I suggest that you go to a web site, Echonet.org , to find some seeds and growing techniques that might be adapted to bale gardens.

Lone

Lone, how are you now?

Jeanette

Jenette and all of my friends,
I am doing just GREAT. Every day I my strength is returning and I am able to become more involved in my new life. I say a new life because I was given a new birthday, October 3rd, 2008. That is the day I WALKED out of the hospital on my own two legs.
There is no reason why Our Lord did not take me home, except that He has plans for me; whatever they are. Only 1% of people my age and as sick as I was survive. I not only survived, but He gave me pretty much my old self back. The only sticker is He doesn't tell us His plans ahead of time, leaving us to discover them through prayer.
Now I have to lose a bunch of weight to keep other problems from rearing their ugly head down the road.
There, Thanks for asking. I have discovered one thing The Lord kept me here for; to tell the story over and over.
I won't bore you too much and I know this is not a religious forum so I won't press the issue. I do request that if anyone has need of prayer, please tell us. I do consider the members of this forum good friends.
God Bless you all, Lone.

Hi, Lynne. From my experience (only one season), I recommend hay bales*, on the ground (as they will be consumed by the plants by the end of the season), as tightly baled as possible. I hope to experiment this year with maybe wrapping the outside of the bales to keep the moisture in (although the hay bales do better than the straw in this respect, too). I would recommend planting onions, corn, radishes, beets, etc. in the ground- bales don't seem appropriate or particularly effective for root crops. I had fantastic luck with tomatoes, squash, peas, beans, and flowers, and you can put flowers/herbs on the front/sides of the bales, with veggies on the tops. You'll need to put a good layer of compost&soil on top of the bales for seeding lettuces/greens, but mine grew all summer from only one planting!

(*I did my first bale garden 50%/50%, straw/hay bales; the difference was so dramatic- the hay side was a JUNGLE with a much higher yield, required much less fertilization and held moisture better)

This style of gardening is life changing for those of us with physical limitations, and can be adapted to rooftops, etc. This is the first time I've been able to garden in 12 years.

Good luck- please keep us apprised of your success with this project.

Namaste- Suzan

Same thing for me with hay vs straw. The hay won hands down! It's all I will use now.

lonejack: great post. God is good! All the time!