Looking For A Small At Least Three Season Tree

I have been looking for a long time for a tree that doesn't grow much larger than 15-20 feet tall,with a similar spread.My dream tree would have flowers at one point,beautiful fall foliage,and either an interesting winter shape or beautiful foliage during the non-flowering period.
I was thinking of a Hawthorn,but several in this area look very sad,while others that look like the same or very similar cultivar are quite attractive.
Because of other plants in my yard and the neighbors,I really don't want a Crabapple,Plum,Dogwood,Japanese Maple or Redbud.
Any suggestions are welcome.

Lynn

Japanese Lilac tree, Syringa reticulata, may be a good choice. The flowers are fragrant and blooms later than the trees you mentioned. It's hardy in your zone. http://www.mnpower.com/treebook/fact106.html
to see a picture and more information.

how about seven son flower? aka Heptacodium, it has white flowers late in the season has lovely exfoliating bark
I first saw one at in the gardens at tower hill in boylston ma it was magnificent . mine is quite a bit smaler than that but I have high hopes ( I bought as a little whip )
laura

Thank you both.I will do some further research on both plants.
Love the dog!

Lynn

Amelanchier x grandiflora comes to mind. Common name 'Serviceberry'. 'Princess Diana' is particularly nice. Etherial spring bloom, berries which the birds love and pick clean, and glowing coral, red and gold color in the fall.

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=WZPA,WZPA:2006-10,WZPA:en&q=Amelanchier+grandiflora

I thought I had a picture of my seven son flower so I chose , "choose file " to add a picture . I didn't find my picture of the tree so put in my dog because you can't cancel once you pick choose file ( a least I am not clever enough to :o) and I didn't want to confuse anyone with the wrong plant besides I thought she looked cute in her halloween costume
laura

I'll always lead with my heart...

Viburnum rufidulum will give you three seasons, and raise you one. Heavy flowering in mid/late spring, clean glossy green foliage (in most cases) through the summer, good red/burgundy fall color, and a heavy fruit crop provided a pollinator is present. That also then means winged friends.

Rusty blackhaw viburnum will have a similar shape to a standard crabapple or hawthorn, a broad rounded tree about as tall as wide (20' x 20'). It also will develop nice blocky bark with age. 'Royal Guard' is a fine selection of this species.

Classic Viburnums of Upland, NE grows this plant, and it is one of their favorites. You can ask 'em, and let them tell you how it performs in NE.

If hawthorns look rough around your area, it is probably due to one of the many common foliar problems that beset members of the Rosaceae family, like rust or scab. Chances are that you won't avoid it without a bit of spraying, and that those type diseases will likely also afflict other members of that family, like the various Amelanchier selections. That shouldn't be reason not to choose these species, only a note of caution as you make your decision.

Hi,

Have you seen this thread? It is from quite a bit earlier this year, but the person who posted had some of the same questions you have, and lots of people responded (I was one of them). They may not have seen your thread.

Donna

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/823345/

You can't beat a stewartia!!!
It's got it all - beautiful flowers, fall color, fabulous exfoliating bark.
What more can you ask?

Wow,you have all given me such great ideas It's going to be a tough decision.
Thank You,Lynn

Don't forget Styrax.

Thanks again.
I have probably looked at almost every common tree in my catalogues and on the net,but you are all bringing up new ideas.Now,to just make up my mind.........

Lynn

I will help prejudice your opinion...voilà!

Viburnum rufidulum 'Royal Guard' wearing its fall robes...

"I'm ready for my closeup, Mr. DeMille..."

Here's a branch just beginning to blush.

Wow ,I really needed my opinions to be prejudiced more.LOL
What a tough decision this is.^_^
Lynn

ViburnumValley,
I forgot to mention that one of the reasons I am searching so much is due to health,finances,etc.,I really need a tree that does not have a lot of upkeep.I can spray a small tree and have a neighbor help with any high pruning,but I don't want a tree that I would have to hire professionals several times a year.(such as my next door neighbors Pin Oak).

Lynn

We have pin oaks here that are not high maintenance. Can you elaborate a bit on what professional care is needed several times a year?

Snapple,
Every year she has pros come and put feeding spikes (I guess) all around the perimeter of the tree.Later in the season tanks are hooked up to the trunk for several days,then she has it pruned.I'm not sure why.The tree has a beautiful shape.It does not drop it's leaves in the fall.I probably am a little leary because of watching this.I have lived here 37 years and am not sure how old the tree is,but it's been there a long time.

Lynn

A Pin Oak might have a hard time there if the soil is alkaline.

The trunk feeding might be iron to counteract iron chlorosis if the soil is over pH 7. The ground stakes are probably slow feed fertilizer. I can see your reluctance to take on a tree if that's the care it needs. Much better to choose one that will be happy with your native soil. Do you know the pH?

ViburnumValley, I have a question, if I were to plant a Viburnum rufidulum would the Viburnum plicatum var. tomentosum 'Shasta' pollinate it, would they pollinate eachother? I just planted a Shasta and noticed it needs a pollinator too. Do all viburnums need a pollinator?

I don't want to hijack the thread but sounds like it might be good information for lbrabec too :)

Had to edit to say Happy Birthday ViburnumValley :)

This message was edited Oct 24, 2008 2:01 PM

Hi LeBug. I've done some research on this. All viburnums do not need a pollinator, and some sources assert that none of them do, which would match my experience. I have one viburnum carlesi, one viburnum prunifolium, and one viburnum opulus (I have multiples of others) that are on completely different sides of the yard (with a building in between). They bloom every year. I also have two trilobums with a building between them that flower and fruit every year.

I just had a look at two books by Michael Dirr (Viburnums, Flowering Shrubs for Every Season, and Hardy Trees and Shrubs) in which he mentions Shasta and makes no refernce to a pollinator, and he always talks about pollinators, very specifically, when a plant needs them, like Hollies.

Just a note - I had five vibernum plicatum tomentosum 'Lanarth' (the biggest ones) that thrived for years and got HUGE but the freaky frost of two years ago killed them all. Bark splitting, but I do not think that would affect you, unless in your zone you can get the hefty freeze thaw thing we got. Mine were too big to protect..

I suspect that the failure to fruit and flower has more to do with pruning at the wrong time. I did it once. If you prune after bloom you can eliminate the needed plant material for the following year.

Congrats on the purchase of Shasta. I miss my doublefiles.

Donna

Hi Donna, I'm afraid we had the hefty freeze/thaw last year, it was so unnerving, plants kept jumping out of the ground! I spent all winter trying to get them back in, I'm just hoping it's going to be better this year lol I'm new to viburnums and was really glad that I ran across this thread and esp. because of the Viburnum rufidulum VirburnumValley suggested, it sounds wonderful and I have plenty of room for them, mine is only a foot tall from a cutting in a trade last year, I just planted it and plan on putting at least a couple more of them in my field, figured if they need a polleninator I'd better get started now, I don't think there are any other ones around for the bees and birds to do the job, I haven't seen any and have looked. I checked the plantfiles and they said they needed one, so thanks for the help :)

Lea

LeBug,
Most of the Viburnums that are around here are solitary and do fine.

Snapple,
I haven't tested the soil recently,but most of my yard tests 6-6.5,except in areas I have ammended for different plants.Aside from Pin Oak (and maybe other oaks),most trees around here do not need such special care.Very common here are Maple,most Conifers,Redbud,Locust,Plum,Crabapple,Birch (newer trees),Cottonwood,Wild Sumac,Boxelder,Apple,Catalpa ( in some older neighborhoods),and Elm until they were all wiped out by disease.Sometimes I see a Magnolia,Golden Rain tree,Poplar and others.
Shrubs such as Pieris Japonica,that require a lot of acid or less clay,do not do well here unless you ammend the soil and keep a close eye on the PH.

Lynn

Hmm. It might be a micronutrient issue. Soil here is pH 6.7 - 6.8 and Pieris Japonica, Pin Oaks and other acid favoring plants don't need pH modification. I've got a 20 yr old P. japonica 'Red Mill' that grows well and the neighbor across the street has a big pin oak. The neighbor's pin oak has never been fed, ever. It does fine. Manganese and iron deficiencies show very similar symptoms. So, I'm wondering if there isn't another reason besides pH. At any rate, there is no good reason to fight the soil for a tree. It's always better, for the larger plants anyway, to accomodate what you have. Have you ever considered a Cotinus obovatus?. No pH issues, but it does prefer a dry lean soil. It has nice bark and incredible fall color.

http://hort.ufl.edu/trees/COTOBOA.pdf
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1608/

Thanks Snapple,
I really don't have to fight most plants as long as I understand their basic needs.My Pieris is now in a large pot,because in spite of ammendments,my last one failed.I really appreciate your input.

Lyn

LeBug:

I agree with your premise of not hijacking Ibrabec's thread. Let's take this viburnum rumble outside. I'll still provide some information here for those interested, and it is meant in the best of intentions to maximize gardeners' results for the expectations from their efforts.

My experience differs significantly from DonnaMack's, in cultural practices as well as in literature. I could stand to learn something by knowing what sources assert that none of the viburnums need a pollinator. I'll reference the texts I know about here, since that is easily quantifiable.

I don't own the new Dirr tome Viburnums, Flowering Shrubs for Every Season, but I'd be amazed if it varied tremendously in information provided about these stellar shrubs. I do have a well-worn copy of his encyclopedic text Manual of Woody Landscape Plants, and he mentions cross-pollination and/or the need for multiple different clones no less than 14 times amongst the viburnum species listings. I also have the CD he produced on viburnums, which is mostly just pictures so I haven't scrolled through that. Without reading every word, I also perused Dirr's Hardy Trees and Shrubs. Since we both have that book, I'll list where I found at least three references about this subject: pp. 424, 429, and 430.

Lastly, the holder of the British National Plant Collection of viburnums, Lloyd Kenyon, mentions this in his text Viburnum on p. 10:

The issue is self-incompatibility. The viburnums as a genus have perfect flowers (male and female reproductive parts present together) but are not very self-compatible, meaning that the flowers are fertilized better when the pollen comes from a similar but not identical flower on a separate plant (like two seedlings or two differing clones of the same species). This doesn't mean that a single plant of any species cannot set fruit alone. It means it will set a much lesser amount than if otherwise afforded the opportunity to cross with another plant. So it's a choice each gardener can make for their landscape, but at least it should be made consciously and in a well-informed manner.

Thus my recommendation that if one wants fine fruiting from these flowering phenoms...don't just plant one.

Flowering is NOT altered by the number of plants one has. That's a function of health, age, and pruning practices as mentioned above. The note about hollies is a bit different issue, as that genus most often has male and female flowers on separate plants or clones (but not always). The most common example would be the winterberries (Ilex verticillata), where a male-flowered plant like 'Southern Gentleman' is necessary to gain pollination of the female-flowered plant like 'Winter Red'.

Distance apart is only a factor if flying insects don't visit the partnering plants. Planting on different sides of a building won't deter the foraging of the bugs that are doing the pollinating work here. Viburnum pollen doesn't blow from plant to plant, I don't believe.

I'm sorry to hear more stories of the 2007 Easter freeze destruction. I, too, lost many plants to that horrible weekend weather, with Viburnum dilatatum and Viburnum plicatum var. tomentosum specimens the worst hit. At least a dozen 8-10' plants were killed to the ground or dead outright. Nature's vagaries...

LeBug:

I think you are on the right track to plant multiple sourced (or multiple clones of) the Rusty Blackhaw viburnum.

Ibrabec:

You have one of the finest sources of viburnums in the Great Plains (if not the entire US) in Nebraska at your fingertips with Classic Viburnums. Gary and Susan would be glad to bend your ear with their ample knowledge of this great genus.

DonnaMack:

Satisfaction with the performance of your plants in your landscape is really all that matters, and assistance in reaching that goal is the reason I provide comments on threads like this.

If I've left anyone hanging with a question I can help answer, I think a separate posting on this subject is in order. I'd be happy to add this information there, and converse on all things Viburnum.