Hi all!
I don't much hang around the flower forum, as you can probably tell by the way I'm asking a question that might be stupid. :) I'm very much an herb and vegetable gardener, and tend to plant flowers that I know can just take off and do without my loving guidance (because I'm so darn busy with my veggies and herbs). This spring, I planted some four o'clocks, and they've been a real delight. However, they're starting to produce seeds (in quantity!!) and it seems too soon for that, since they're supposed to bloom until the first frost (which isn't until mid-Oct. in these parts). Should I cut them back? They don't seem like the kind of plants that would like that. Should I just cut off the seed pods? I don't mind if they re-seed, but I'd like for them to continue blooming!
Thanks for any advice you can offer!
Errr...pruning four o'clocks?
Moonpye,
I wouldn't prune them. I've yet to see anyone who did prune them. I have lots of them in my yard. I like them because they take so little care, just plant and water. Yes, mine are producing seeds, too, but they should keep on blooming for quite a while yet. But if you're concerned about them continuing to bloom, there's nothing wrong with cutting off the seed pods and saving them.
Also, don't pull them up later after the frost. Just cut them to the ground. I don't know about your zone, but in some zones they will form tubers under the soil and if you mulch they will come back next spring from the tuber. If they don't return, then you've got all those saved seeds, plus the ones that will sprout from the dropped seeds.
Karen
In some areas of the country they do reseed themselves quite a bit, but your climate is a little drier and harsher so I wouldn't assume that your experience would be the same as someone from another area of the country. You might try asking in the Southwest forum, you'll find more people from climates like yours there.
I'm in Cinti, not too far north of Paducah. My 4:00 reseeded like crazy, to the point of invasiveness. I'll post a picture of that bed in early spring. I have been yanking them out all summer. No more of those for me.
Karen
Hi Darren,
In some areas they reseed very well. Of course, that presupposes that the birds don't get them first. I did not see any of them coming up from reseeding this year in the beds I had planted them in last year. We do have many, many birds that do not migrate and as a consequence plants that are supposed to reseed readily often don't.
I also was careful not to pull the plants up to see if they would come back from the underground tubers they form. That did not happen either in the beds where I had planted them. In warmer climates, So. CA for example, they will come back the next year from those tubers. We are colder here by quite a bit, so I assume the cold ground may have frozen mine.
On the other hand, there are volunteers in behind the house on the edge of the woods that have come back on their own for the last two years. Did they reseed from seeds the birds didn't find? Or did they come back from tubers as that area is more protected from cold? I don't know. I only know they are growing well back there and I didn't plant them.
However, they do grow easily and quickly from direct-sown seeds. I would suggest that you gather the seeds that you can and save them for planting in the spring. In your climate you might just leave the plant there rather than cutting it off to see if it survives the winter. If it doesn't and it doesn't reseed itself, then you've got the seeds to plant as many as you want next spring.
Karen
hi Karen~thank, and you are probably right on about the volunteers at your locale, lol being brought back that makes perfect sense....I was going to leave it in the ground as I have had some winter survival surprises (hard to think, say OR type, that!), including a fern and one passionflower which has now been divided repeatedly...
Out of the hand of seeds I laid down only one took this spring, so I was hoping for flowers to help. This area is small and full of dianthus as well. I will see what happens then reseed next feb-mar. (spring here about...if there's no snow, I seed.) and wait. Sometimes I get leftovers from the previous year as well~we'll see - d :)
Thanks again!
:Darren
Darren,
I would definitely leave it in the ground over winter -- never know what will come back. I've had a few surprises this year, too. I am surprised that you only had one seed germinate out of that many. But you will have good, fresh seed from that one for planting next year, so your results should be much better then.
Karen
i do prune mine... actually, I just snap off the bigger branches.
the problem I have with them - aside from the over abundance of them... the smother my other plants.
Last year, 3 of my fave rose bushes were completely covered.
I've broken them to the ground.... early enough in the season and they do completely grow back
I yank out many, like Karen .... and even where i break off the branches, they still grow back.
and as we all know - if you've had them longer than one season.... produce seeds galore!
my 4-O'c's do OK with drought [pretty dry in NV, huh?] but wilt with the really intense sun .... perk right back up once the high sun is going down.
I would think the root system [tubers] would survive your winters though... i do have a few against my foundation that do survive even our cold winters.
TCS1366, Thank you, these are likely to survive as well, unless we get a CRAZYYY freeze. I hope. Thanks for the words of Enouragement, I have just found the variety, 'Ruby Glow". I think I am confidant it'll be OK here, if yours are good up in Illinois. and YES lol it is dry here. That I think is part of the reason I such poor seed gemination rates as I ground-sow. The dirt dries during the day and the seeds can get washed away in a bad hose moment though we have ground level soakers but they too can run a seed far from its designated spot / home to-be. My four o'Clocks are a little off on the timing according to the sun/ temp too, lol they open early, WAY early...like ten AM. Still pretty though and the flutterbies love'm.
:Darren
Mine start forming seed from the first flower to the last:lol: I just let them fall and haven't had many pop up. The one plant that the seeds are coming from is from a batch of commercial seed I bought over 10 years ago. It formed a big rhizome and returns every year. I will collect seed from it and give it to friends who have large areas that they want an easy plant in. It's really a no fuss one. The pack of seeds I planted was a mix of fuchsia, lt pink, yellow and white. The rhizome is one of the fuchsia ones.
I live in Orlando fl and am in zone 9 a and the four oclocks i have get giant tubors and the seed also come up . cant get rid of them even tho i like them they get big and need a good bit of room . They are care free and seed all yr. I have the fushia color if anyone wants some for postage. I wanted some of the by colors the ones with more than one color in one bloom. Anyone want to trade any. The ones i have smell also. Fran
Fran -- I have some of the "Bi-Color" they are the yellow with red.
I'll have to look for the seeds as my morning glory has since smothered the 4-O'c.
so i'm not sure how many seeds i have, yet.
I also have TONS Of magenta, as you say... can't get rid of them all.
If i can scrounge enough seeds to send... I'll do it for postage.
**edited to add.... they are called Broken Colors.
Terese
This message was edited Sep 7, 2008 11:44 AM
tcs1366, would you like to trade for some of my seed? Fran
Thanks for the offer.
LOL... while mine have been one color all summer, (reddish) suddenly a purple magenta like branch flowered out of nowhere off the same plant. Is this normal??? We havwe just had a drop in temps and a wee bit of rain (still 2 inches under ave. for the year!) and I was wondering if the cause and effect included that posssibly. Any Ideas on this?
THANKS!
:Darren
Darren,
wow, never heard of that one.
can you take a pic of that... i'd ;love to see that.
Terese
ok. um, on deeper inspection i could have (2) plants -one with a main branch actually below soil/mulch, that has divided to two flowering branches from it, which is possibly a second plant! I may have had two plants all summmer and one just started blooming?!?
I am not sure if the seperate colored branches are from the bigger (primary) plant that is all red and Been blooming. I am going to have to carefully explore under soil tomorrow AM and will post Pics ASAP. Sorry if I said an impossiblilty but the conversations of mutiple plant colors may have got my imagination excited~ it does look to be one plant still....
:D
oh, heck... that's OK. do let us know how it all turns out.
It may have formed a tuber for you. The one I have that did usually doesn't appear until late summer (around August) and goes until every flower has bloomed and produced seed or frost--whichever comes first. I've never moved it since it's not in the way and it seems to be hardy (and inches from a heat retaining brick building in full sun).
heres the best pic with only two plants for sure, I cant dig deeper to find out without hurting the stem I am afraid, & this is actually a different plant(s) than the original which is seemingly not blooming near as much now. Anyway ~
I wound up with a yellow one and one that goes from red to burgundy I guess! thanks for your help and patience, I think the original may have been from an underground runner/tuber as suggested!
:D
Karen Sorry, This plant, CAN you belive it was hid between roses and then blew up in late summer, literally just exploded in a few weeks, wierd with a weather shift in this zone in October/Sept. I did get more that one or (poosible, lol) two plants! at least 4 now out of a good handful of seeds, but there were some well fed doves I suppose
thanks again!
:D
>>but there were some well fed doves I suppose
thanks again!
I do not know from experience... but i've read the seeds are toxic... so i doubt any birds were eating your seeds.
one thing i have found... Yellows, at least for me, are later bloomers. It takes forever to get blooms, then the seeds even longer.... sometimes i cant even get seeds before frost 'bites' the plant.
you will be surprised - or not - by how many seedlings pop up next season ... then you'll have an idea how many seeds 'you missed'.
i get them shooting up in the lawn....
So I know when to watch what temperature/time of year do you see the seelings pop up?
I am pretty aggressive in Spring about weeding and replanting in the area around there with new stuff to experiment on lol that way i wont lose any nre plants. They do pretty well for the heat we have herre in the Vegas valley. They do tend to think its 4 pm at 10-11 AM though. I still get a kick out of that...
thanks~ :D
I have Ruby Glow. I absolutely love the color and they will reseed next spring in my zone. I haven't tried digging any up in the fall and overwintering them.
I know mine come up early. since they [most of them] are along my foundation, the extra warmth gets them going early.
I'd have to go back and look at dates on photos to be sure... but April for sure, if not the end of March.
Way out back in the field area... they probably do not come up until May- time frame.
These are mostly seeds that have fallen. THe ones that come back from the rhyzome [sp] -- they are the early ones.
I generally do not plant them anymore... i'll transplant babies [ they really do not like to be transplanted, so if i have to, i do it when they are quite small.] to areas where i may want some...
COOL.
Then i will shoot for march out here as a time to watch, thats good as I already have my nose in the dirt by then. Also good to know bout the transplant issue~! I will try to salvage thing just like that. put them at a favorable locale...thanks again! I have hope for the little babies especially if you get them so soon in your zone I should have no prob. How much snow do you get if any?
:D
for the snow... it's hit or miss.
i recall a few yrs back... we'd get maybe 0.5" or less... it would melt and do it all over again... with probably our heaviest snow fall a few inches in January or so.
then last year 2007/2008 the midwest got socked... we [chicago area] got about 50", but north, Madison Wisc and a bit north [Wisc Dells area] got about 14' ... but in places north of that... they did not get as much.
so, snow is hit or miss.
we can get as little as 12-15" all season, or 100"
While searching for different images yesterday, i came across one of the 4-O'cs that grows back from a Rhizome ... [and i have no idea how it got there, as it is behind my roses, where i'd never plant one, much less 3]
BUT -- it was a few inches tall, and coming up a red-ish burgundy, not the normal green ... and the date stamp was early May ... so i was probably incorrect about any coming up in March ... but at least Mid-April for sure.
...well March is sometimes plenty warm for growth here, I seed generally in Febuary as we don't have snow on the ground for more than a day if at ALL, tho' its neat when it happens, the beauty of snow in the desert is undeniable. So, a seedling time to watch for me would start in march even if I see nothing til may. Like this last 4O'clock, I did not see it (Bloom) till late summer!! Bad eye on my part, I really have to watch for weeds so I do not know how it got past me. I think I must've thought it was part of a rose bush as the weeds in the roses grow close to the ground.
:D