Hope someone can help me out here. I have four hills of zucchini plants, two plants per hill. All were doing fine until a few days ago, when one hill started wilting. I can't figure it out. I tried watering it and it didn't pop back up until the evening. It was fine yesterday morning and then I checked on it in the afternoon and it was wilted again. Watered it last evening, it popped back. Went out this morning, it was showing just a slight amount of wilting so I watered it and now it's thoroughly wilted again, and it's not even that hot and it's a cloudy day! All the other zucchini hills are fine.
I'm at a loss. The leaves appear green and healthy (when not wilted) and it's making baby zucchinis. Could it be a disease? If so I want to yank it before it affects the others, but I wanted to ask around here first. Any suggestions appreciated--thanks! :)
!
What's going on with my zucchini?
Squash do not usually wilt. The problem could be rotting roots from overwatering. This is the prime time for larva to be chewing on the roots. This is a distinct possiblity. Another is to much raw unconverted organic material that has the nitrogen tied up. Then there are a host of disease possiblities none of which you can do much about after they show up.
I would move form that area and start a new planting while you tinker and doctor the problem child. There is enough time to grow a dandy fall crop of squash.
Actually I would not try to doctor to much. After a plant is stressed one problem usually leads to another. Mother nature has all her killers trained to get rid of a sick plant. That is her way. Man is a poor secondary thinker.
Schickenlady--I've been picking off the occasional cucumber beetle and squash bug, but nothing to the extent that they appear to have been a severe problem. And I haven't used any fertilizer, other than a top-dressing of compost a few weeks back.
Docgipe--I wonder about the top-dressing of compost--it certainly seemed well-composted and all my other plants are fine, maybe this hill got hit with something that is giving it a problem. I will also dig around and see if I can get a decent look at the roots without stressing the plant out too much. If it looks as though they are rotting or if there are any larvae I'll just pull the plants.
It's odd though, it's only during the day that it's like this. It's fine at night. Go figure.
Love your quote about Mother Nature. :) How true!
I do not think any top dressing or mulch would be causing your problem.
Niere - it's squash vine borers. You can't do much once they're in the stalks - you can try to take them out, but it's usually too late once they've wilted.
The female lays her eggs at the base of the leaf stalks. Once the larva (white) develop they feed on, and in, the stalk. When the stalk dies, they move on to the main stem and eventually kill the whole plant.
Next year, watch for "frass" on the stems, which looks kinda like sawdust. Then you can either slit the stem and carefully remove the caterpillar, or take a small sharp object (needle, wire, toothpick) to kill the borer with.
Some people wrap the stem near the ground (where eggs are usually laid) with tin foil, or nylon stockings or such, so that the female can't lay eggs there.
An old trick is to cover soil over the stem at different places, so the plant will make more roots. That way, if the borers get in, the plant can still feed the 'fruit' even though the main stem is gone.
Here's a few pics of the moth.
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Hi Primrose--thanks for the reply! I called the local ag. extension and they suggested this as well. I went out and looked and for the life of me cannot find any frass--maybe it's just too early and I can't see it yet? I'm going to give the plant one or two more days (if it makes it that long) and then pull it. Then I'll give it a good dissection and try to figure this out for sure.
Thanks for the photos--I'll keep my eyes open and will report back if I learn anything for sure! :D
Though it can be difficult to find the entry point of borers until it's too late, it's not difficult to get rid of them. Mix some BT concentrate according to directions and inject the hollow stalk about two inches above ground. I use 6cc syringes. You can get syringes from a seed and feed or maybe your vet. Some folks use glue injectors. I routinely inject mine at the time of flowering and a week or two later.
Laurel
SQV need to be managed before they become a problem. My squash covers about seven hundred square feet and has at least four hundred leaves and stems. If anyone believes squash can be grown where SQV are in the soil without invasive chemicals I would have to disagree. It would be better to avoid squash and related plants to break the cycle.
Hopefully all can understand that BT inserted into the leaf stems as a prevent practice would be impossible. My plant size is just for one plant. Many individuals grow half a dozen or more. Farmers grow acres so helpfull advise has to be doable. None of the products that work are in the realm of chemical use that many consider acceptable for a food products.
I have no insect problems and never have had them in my squash grown as giant pumpkins "not for food use" . I do not know how to prevent SVB and other beetle, without the use of invasive chemicals.
Doc, I don't know if SQV is in reference to borers, But I also grow a comparable amount of squash and pumpkins in an area of the country that has multiple generations of borers. It only takes one to two cc's of BT to kill the borers. I load a syringe and go down the rows of winter and summer squash in no time. This would not work for commercial growers, of course, but I have an organic garden. This is a tried and true method that anyone can check out from garden experts around the country and has been on the internet for years. I didn't invent it.
If the problem is not borer related, well...I concede. After years of digging out borers and burying stems, I find this is far less traumatic to the plant and almost always ends up salvaging a viable plant as opposed to starting from square one.
L
Laurel - is BT a brand name, or do the letters stand for something?
Sue, it's bacillus thurengiensis, a bacteria that specifically targets worms. It gets borers in their larval stage and other worms as well. They can't eat as soon as they are sprayed and die soon afterward. It's marketed as Thuricide and probably there are other brands. It has no effect on humans, animals or other insects, is biodegradable and is a bio-specific, organically approved treatment.
Laurel
Maypop--I may see if I can try the BT and syringes. Might have to call about the syringes, don't want to drive all over creation trying to find them. ;)
This is what kills me--it's just after 6:30 a.m. and I checked on the plants and they look happy as can be, totally up and you would never know anything is wrong with them. I know in a few hours they are going to look like death not even warmed-over. I just find it odd. If it was a borer, wouldn't it the plant be limp all the time?
My squash has bright yellow fuzzy wormy bugs on it. Any clue as to what they are?
Excuse the SQV error....Meant SVB squash vine borers. All these guys and other beetle are best attacked as larva. A combination of in the ground and in the air plus BT stem attack can actually reduce numbers below any major concern in numbers.
I grow pumpkin a member of the sqash family. They are not intended to be food. On this 100 sq. ft. plot they are controlled by Milky Spore, Nema Seek Nematoads underground while above ground we use whatever is required as a contact insecticide as well as and at the same time using horticulture oils including Neem Oil. Some years we have nearly no larva but we maintain the prevent programs as this is an ongoing affair for members of the squash family included cukes, lopes, pumpkins and possibly more. If I were attempting to fully organic I would by choice eliminate them from my grow patterns.
If I felt inclined to grow these as a regular crop I would expect flair ups of any or all larva cycling insects. if bad enough I would return to a one year Merit use program and then return to my healthy patch management. When properties are so small that crop rotation is barely possilble problems will occur. It is really difficult to maintain a fully organic program on a small property. Then too the word organic has had its meaning legally changed to the point many of us do not correctly understand.
I envy anyone who trys to run an organic practice. I do but have never quite ....never ever quite achieved perfection. Some of the small farmers with which we deal regularly maintain a similar position of being never quite able to be certified organic. Sometimes this has to do with heavy metals having been placed on the property orchards more than fifty years ago by their grandfathers and parents.
Merit is invasive in my opinion but in some potato growing states it is approved. Some say that merit does not translocate to the sink or the fruit. I do not know. I do know that I never had any larva cycling insect difficuty to speak of when I eliminate the squash. family.
Niere, I don't know your day time temps, but it's normal here for squash and pumpkins to wilt in the afternoon heat or under heavy, direct sun. Water amounts and mulch do not make a difference. When you mentioned the one hill was showing symptoms in the morning, well I would suspect, along with PrimroseSue, borers. If they are working below the soil line, and I've read they do, a drench of BT will help there too. These types of problems support the decision of those who have abandoned widely spaced hill planting for more dense row planting. I switched to row planting many years ago. Regarding the syringe. You might look in a craft store for some kind of injector. I don't know if these would have cc markings. No matter, you can't overdose a zucchini. :) Good luck.
Doc, I learn something new every garden year about how to garden better organically.
Laurel
Laurel.................Interested in row planting of squash. Is there a newly created seed that stays within the row concept. Most form a hill or clump three or four feet in diameter while some go even larger.
Niere..................If it turns out to be high sun normal leaf wilt you can reduce the temperature and the leaf wilt by sprinkling or fogging the leaf five minutes duration of each thirty minutes. My sprinkler does this for my pumpkin when the temperature is above 85 degrees between the hours of twelve noon and four thirty PM. This is for my pumpkin a member of the squash family.
Squash family members like it cooler. This misting system caused a twenty degree drop on the pumpkin patch. Supplies can be purchased from Drip Works of Calif. on line. The support frame is 3/4 in. CPVC plastic available at Lowes or equal.
20 degrees . . .I wonder if I could get one of those systems for inside my house!
No but you could rig one up on the patio with an even finer mist to do the same thing outdoors.
YankeeCat--sorry, I've no idea. I even googled up "bright yellow fuzzy bugs" and came up with nothing. Hope you can figure it out!
Docgipe--thank you so much for all your help. I don't know what to think at this point. It's a very cool, misty day here today (had lots of rain last night) and it's noon and the plant looks fine. ??? I agree it could have been the heat but how to account for the other three hills that were fine when this hill suffered...perplexing. I'm going to keep the plants until they can no longer bounce back. And how wonderful to be into giant pumpkins! I am somewhat aware that there are serious giant pumpkin growers here in Rhode Island. Apparently a group of pumpkin growers took offense to someone mocking people from "the tiniest state" trying to grow giant pumpkins and that was that. I believe that a Rhode Islander now holds the giant pumpkin record. But I grew up in the Poconos so I won't mind if you beat the record! ;) :D
I have a farmer friend who is organic and he swears by this to keep bugs off his squash and cukes--mix one part wood ashes and three parts lime. Dust plants liberally in the morning when the dust will stick. He says the bugs can't stand to land on the stuff and he has grown cukes and squashes every year for as long as I've known him and he does it in a relatively small area. I'm going to use this method next year and see how it goes--it's probably too late for it to be of too much use this year if I've already got borers.
Laurel--thank you! I have to go to a craft store today so I may ask there. :)
Squash family members have mutiple seed pouches with a single female flower lobe running to each individual seed pouch. A female flower may have from three to seven lobes. Even with the same controlled male crosses the female rules that half of the genetic order. Each seed pouch is similar but not allways exactly the same as the other seed pouches. Therefore in the squash family you may get slightly different genetic traits. Plants from the same genetic pool will act differently without there being a problem.
Boy, I never knew that curcurbits didn't like the heat! I just assumed they did, because you grow them in summer. Huh, you learn somethin' new every day!
Niere......two different men, one in 2006 and the other in 2007 hold consecutive World Records in the State of R.I. Pennsylvania has the only man and wife independant growers to hold two World Records in any state.
PrimroseSue...........when it gets hot enough that they pout or wilt the temperature is above their comfort zone. Plants genetics determine this and it may differ as much as twenty degrees from what one would think would be same seed. This is true of all members in the squash family.
Doc, I seed them on an east/west axis and they head south. They start out bushy and then start creeping towards the sun. Even side branches on the zucchini will go with the flow. This is half of the zucchini patch. As you can see they are very close together and all headed in the same direction. They are now about three feet from their root base. I've grown many types. This year I planted leftover Mayo Dark Green (in photo) and French rounds. The yellow squash rambles more, but heads south too.
That irrigation system is pretty fancy Doc! I'd not benefit from it because the usual cause of squash expiration here is late season powdery mildew. I'ts pretty unavoidable down south. I'm sick of squash at that point. We play practical jokes down here by leaving them in friends' mailboxes (and often finding them back in ours the next day). Time to think about the fall garden at that point. :)
L
Yes I know 'yall fuss with powdery milldew. So do we. It looks real bad on the plants but does not hurt the plant in any way. If I am getting nosey company I get out the Neem Oil and hide it. Neem Oil will control it if used every week on both sides of the leaves. Our commercial fields are snow white by about August 15th. They put nothing in their fields. They wash the fruit if they get white. They leave the gourds outside all winter and pick them and wash them in the spring.
I expect you may know about replacing potatoes with squash in scalloped potato dishes. Very good if you do not or have not heard of this yummy dish.
This message was edited Jul 23, 2008 4:50 PM
That would be good 'ol squash casserole down here. I also make a dish with herbed bread dressing that's like a squash bread pudding. I had yellow squash, zucchini and other veggies and herbs from the garden like this night before last. That's the day the pizza dough went up and out of the bowl while I was reading posts.
Laurel
YEP............I work with the sourdoughs or pre-ferments whichever you wish to call them. When I get to ripping and whooping up a dandy I get the whole kitchen to myself. I notice I get the whole shooting match to clean up too. LOL My usual is two or three loaves of butter top nine grain whole wheat bread and half a dozen pizza shells to stop short of finished and freeze. If it is just the two of us that can be more than a week's bread baking.
That looks good, I'm hungry now!
Ah, Doc, my kind of man! ^..~
Come on down Beth. Garlic rolls from leftover dough tonight.
L
Even reading the word "garlic" makes my mouth water!
Your pizza looks great................I started by having been given a kitchen job in Boy Scout Camp for eight weeks. The pay was $15.00 a week and private stock ice cream on Friday evenings.We got into a lot of everything for a hundred boy and leader camp. I did that two summers and had time to finish earning my way to Eagle Scout and beyond in our spare time. Best two summers I ever could have dreamed up on my own. LOL
Beth, my very special, crazy Mom always said there are only two flavors...garlic and chocolate.lol
Thanks Doc. I have a great way to keep the kitchen cool and clean. It does need a bit of weeding though.
Laurel
Here is a picture of the bright yellow fuzzy bugs on my squash.
Those look like Mexican bean beetles, which do love squash when beans are not available. I know you might be asking why Mexican beetles might be visiting your CT garden. I don't have that answer. They probably will not do in the squash. Try Neem oil for a botanical, organic fix.
Laurel
NEEM OIL WILL GET THAT INSECT! READ AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS.