What's doing this to my Peegee? This just recently started. The leaves are turning brown and drying up.
Peegee needs help!
Here's another view. Some of the leaves have brown spots.
Is it just the way the lighting is, or are there a bunch of white spots on some of the green leaves? I wonder if that's eggs from some sort of insect, maybe it's not related to the brown leaves but maybe it is--if insects suck on the leaves enough they can turn brown and die. Usually the only insect I have problems with where the leaves get to that browing/dying stage is spider mites, but other insects could do it too if you don't catch the problem early.
Has it been hot and dry, or wetter than normal?
Thanks Ecrane & Yotedog. I sprayed it with a fungicide yesterday. I think that's the white residue from it. It has been abruptly very hot & dry here. Prior to that it was very cool & wet. Critters kept digging the dirt away from this, so I put put more soil around it, applied critter repellant, remulched and built a cage around it. That was last week.
I have a similar problem. I planted this hydrangea maybe 12 years ago, and never gave it any special attention. It hasn't received fertilizer, and hasn't been given any supplemental water. All of a sudden, it looks as if it has given up the ghost.
Here's a closer image of the leaves. Yesterday it looked limped; today it is yellowing.
I held on to a branch and rocked the plant gently. It felt as if it wasn't very firmly anchored. I then moved some dirt off the roots. On one side, there were no roots to be seen -- could they have rotted? Or been eaten? That is what this photo attempts to show. On the other side of the shrub, there are roots but they seem a bit soft.
I assume it is a goner. But what went wrong? The other plants in the same area seem ok. Is there a disease or bug present that will damage other hydrangeas?
I noticed last year that this hydrangea's bloom wasn't as much as in prior years, and I thought that was maybe because I hadn't cut it back. I meant to read up on it, but forgot. Could that have been a symptom?
This message was edited Jul 12, 2008 3:13 PM
The symptoms (drooping leaves, missing and soft roots) are consistent with root rot but if you don't give it supplemental water I'd find that surprising, usually that's what happens when something gets overwatered. Is that in a low-lying area that tends to retain water, or have you had a ton of rain lately? I can't be sure from your picture, but one other possibility would be if soil and leaves/mulch were piled up around the base of the plant or if it was planted a little too deep, then it could be crown rot and you can get that even if you're not watering too much.
I spotted yesterday a bug that DG has identified as a Broad-necked Root Borer (Prionus laticollis) on the other side of my house. They apparently eat roots. Could they have attacked my hydrangea?
I did a quick google search and couldn't find much about hydrangeas being susceptible to borers--most of the sites that mention hydrangeas and borers are talking about using the bloom time of certain hydrangeas as a signal of when to spray your susceptible plants for borers, not about the borers infecting the hydrangeas. And I specifically searched for that particular borer name in association with hydrangeas and came up empty too. Not that Google searches are the authoritative source for things like this and I'm sure somewhere out there there's been a hydrangea that got attacked by some borer, but I think if borers were a common thing for hydrangeas I would have found more out there. So I'd have to say a root fungus is probably a more likely cause. But if you want to check for borers, you could look at some of the roots that are left and see if you see signs that somebody's been tunneling in them.
What do you think about the excessive rain or low lying area causing root rot, or being planted too deep and having crown rot? When I look at your closeup shot of the base, your soil looks really wet (although I know that may just be a temporary thing if it just rained) and I don't see at all where the base of the plant starts to flare out into the roots, and generally that part of the plant needs to be visible above the soil or else you can wind up with rot problems eventually.
This is very depressing. My husband and I went out to inspect the hydrangea. He was able to push it over with a gentle shove. (Goodbye Hydrangea.) The soil is damp, but not what I would call moist and certainly not wet. It actually looked pretty good. And there is no smell of rot on the roots. But I think some type of larvae has destroyed the root structure. The bark of the root (I'm sure that's not the right term, but you know what I mean) slips right off as if it were rotten, and it is wet underneath. And there are larvae, maybe 1-16th inch to 1-18th inch long under the "bark." White with tiny legs. I don't know if it is a vine weevil or strawberry weevil -- those seem the most likely culprits.
And this reminds me that I lost a hydrangea that I adored two years ago -- a "Woodlanders" -- with identical symptoms, although that plant was container grown and very small. I had bought it maybe a year earlier from a nursery but hadn't gotten around to planting it in the year. I inspected the roots of that plant for larvae but didn't see any -- but it may have been that it was later in the year and they had all flown the coop.
I don't like using chemicals, but even if I did it doesn't appear there are good chemical solutions. And I'm not sure I've identified the problem correctly. Or maybe larvae of the Broad-necked Root Borer I spotted yesterday, though those are supposed to be much larger than what I am seeing.
So do I conclude I should not plant hydrangea? Ouch.
Apparently these vine weevils are a known problem in Maryland: http://www.mdinvasivesp.org/species/insects/Black_Vine_Weevil.html. See also http://ipmnet.umd.edu/06Jun16G.pdf. But this says the larvae are legless, but I saw what looked like legs. I wonder if I identified it right. See also http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/O&T/shrubs/note66/note66.html. And http://www.hort.uconn.edu/IPM/homegrnd/htms/1bvwevl.htm
Can you get a picture of the larvae you're seeing and post them in the Bug ID forum? Someone over there might recognize them. Once you know what they are, then you'll have a better idea what to do and what you can and can't plant there.
I tried to, but they are so small as to be almost unrecognizable. I went back for more photos, but they are very hard to find now that the shrub is down and the roots exposed. I also think that the larvae I am seeing may be opportunistic, and that I haven't found the larvae that is at the heart of the problem. I am convinced it must be the vine weevil that is causing the problem, even though I am not seeing its larvae. Especially since it is considered an invasive pest in Maryland, that is especially a problem at nurseries. I bought a new hydrangea 3 years ago from a not-particularly-upscale nursery, and that hydrangea died the same death a year later. I am guessing that it had the root weevils, and that is what introduced them to my yard. I am so afraid this is the death knell for my hydrangeas. I know I can root the cuttings I took of the plant that died, but I'll be so sad if the plants keep keeling over out of the blue. And I'm not willing to drench the place with chemicals.
I didn't see the characteristic notching of the leaves that root weevils (the adults) cause, but it is still early in the season for that. They are supposed to attack azaleas and rhodies as well, so I'm going to watch mine like a hawk.
Happy, Maybe that Diatomaceous earth would kill them in your soil. It's not expensive and 1 bag should be enough to treat all of your shrubs.
That's a great idea, Stormyla. I googled it and read that it is thought to be effective against grubs. On the other hand, I read that chemicals aren't very effective against the root weevil larvae because the larvae live so deep below the surface; the same might be true of the diatomaceous earth (that is, it kills those that crawl over it, but not those deep in the earth). The other problem I have is my DH who is concerned the DE might be carcinogenic or at least bad for the lungs. I haven't been able to convince myself he is wrong. I bought 2 bags a while back I've been meaning to return. Maybe I'll try using them! Which brings up the 3rd problem -- I think I'd have to replace the DE every few weeks for life, on every hydrangea, because I won't know for a long time whether others are threatened. Ugh. And once it manifests itself, it's too late, at least in my experience. Assuming what I have to be root weevils.
There are different kinds of DE...the one you use in swimming pools is the one that's more hazardous to people's health (only if you breathe it in though, where it is in the pool it doesn't hurt anything). That's why you're never supposed to use the pool grade DE in the garden. Of course it never hurts to wear a dust mask anytime you're handling dusty materials! Plus the pool grade stuff doesn't have the sharp edges which are what you need to do the job.
Happy, I use a dust mask and plastic goggles when I apply it. why you feel you'd have to reapply it so often? I have bags from 2 different companies and both say that it keeps working as long as it's still present in the soil. If you work it into the dirt with a garden fork, it should stay there for quite a while. It's certainly worth trying especially since you already have some.
It is recommended for indoor use, so it can't be that bad. Think about all of the household cleaners we have, I'm sure many of them could be carcenogenic in the right circumstances. Not to mention automotive and hardware type of products.
Hqappy, I'm also going to start using that Mychorrhizae when I plant new shrubs. It can also be worked into the ground around existing shrubs. It's supposed to benefit plants in many ways including making them more insect resistant.
Stormy and ecrane: I agree about the DE, but I couldn't definitively prove it and my husband remained unconvinced. I did buy some Mychorrhizae and I'll use that. I may get some beneficial nematodes, but it looks as if they attack all grubs, including ones that are ok, so I'm not convinced that's the best approach.
But I have a hard time getting all my plants in the soil and the yard weeded as it is. I really don't want to start babying each plant to prevent an infestation. I'm going to call the local extension service to see what problems other gardeners are reporting -- I hope I don't end up losing all my hydrangeas, but if I do, so be it (I suppose).
In general, I have always thought of my yard as healthy. I'm really in shock about this bug, whatever it is.
Happy, no matter how "healthy" your yard, new life forms can move in daily, even if you don't bring home new plants. Are you refrigerating the Mychorrhizae? I've been holding off on ordering it until I get this vole & june bug population under control, because I read that certain chemicals can be harmful to it. It has a limited shelf life, espescially in temps higher than air conditioned room temp. The same for the nematodes.
You really wouldn't have to baby each plant. Just a one time application of any of the 3 products is all that is called for. I certainly wouldn't invest the time for hand manipulating the soil around all of the perennials, but I think the shrubs are worth it. If the grubs are really deep in the soil, when they start moving up to the root zone, either the DE or the nematodes should get them. How can you definitely prove anything about any of the products that we use, including what we eat? To me, my Hydrangea are very special and worth it!
Personally I think if you wear a dust mask while you're applying the DE, then there isn't a problem. The only problem it can cause is if you breathe it in, and the dust mask prevents you from breathing it in. I'm all for taking reasonable precautions but I really think your DH has heard stuff about the pool grade DE (which is potentially carcinogenic) and is translating it to the kind you would use in your garden (which is not). Basically, they both originally come from the same place, but the food/pesticide grade material is just bagged up as is, and it's composed of amorophous silica which does not cause cancer. The pool grade material is further heated and processed, and as a result of this extra processing a large percentage of it converts to crystalline silica, which is a cancer hazard. The food/pesticide material contains pretty much no crystalline silica, vs the processed pool grade material can contain up to 50-70% or so of the crystalline silica, hence the greatly increased hazard.
I don't know if this will help, but here are some examples of MSDS's (material safety data sheet) for the pool grade kind that can contain a large amt of crystalline silica (note that cancer is always mentioned):
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/d1288.htm
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Diatomaceous_earth-9923703
http://www.hasapool.com/msds/114.pdf
And here are some for the food/pesticide grade amorphous DE (note that cancer is never mentioned):
page 1: http://www.internet-grocer.net/de-2.jpg page 2: http://www.internet-grocer.net/de-3.jpg
http://www.planetnatural.com/planetnatural/images/diatomaceous-earth-msds.pdf
http://www.biconet.com/pets/infosheets/fossilShellMSDS.pdf
Any sort of dust can present a respiratory hazard, so a dust mask would always be recommended, but if you take that precaution there's really nothing to worry about with the food/pesticide grade one.
Thanks, ecrane and stormyla!
Stormy, I have a good number of existing hydrangeas, rhodies and azaleas, and I'm not eager to start digging each up -- indeed, most are too big to safely dig up. I'm mulling over the options. (My Mychorrhizae is in an airconditioned space, but isn't refrigerated.)
Happy, Most sellers recommend refrigerating it if not using it right away. If you don't have room, try a cooler with a freeze pack. If it doesn't get food within a certain time period, it will start to die.
I don't think you have to dig the shrubs up, just work the products into the soil base. Even just dropping them onto the soil and watering them in is better than doing nothing. BTW, I'm writing to the product suppliers to find out whether or not any of these items work at cross purposes to or are harmful to one another.
Stormyla: I'm glad you are doing that -- please let me know what you find.
My package of Mychorrhizae says it is guaranteed for 2 years, and to keep it under 140 degrees. Maybe I don't have the real thing.
This message was edited Jul 13, 2008 1:31 PM
Ecrane, My PeeGee seems to be doing a lot better. Normally I would remove the brown leaves and trim any non-foliated wood, but This is my first PeeGee experience and I'm not sure if I'll have any blooms yet this year. I always have to look up the pruning info on Hydrangeas because there are so many different bud habits. What do you think? Should I trim the bare wood?
Happy, I planted some Hydrangea today and one had small black and white worms in it.
Another had small white worms. They got a TOTAL hosing!! I hosed the roots bare and Neemed all parts of the plants. Maybe all of this wet weather is causing these things to grow.
Stormyla: I don't know. My hydrangea was a total disaster. I am positive it wasn't overwatered. I have on my long list to call the local extension service and see what they think. I'm trying to root cuttings from the hydrangea that died, but maybe it is pointless to replant it. Might just be a heart breaker. Re Mychorrhizae, is yours a powder or liquid? Mine is a powder. I'm not seeing anywhere the requirement you mentioned that it be kept refrigerated.
My goal is a self-sustaining yard, so I really try not to baby anything. Which is an easy rule to follow since I don't have the time to baby anything (I suppose I might if I didn't spend so much time on DG, but that's another story!). I look for plants that are tough as nails and like the conditions I provide -- and that come back year after year. Nothing short-lived for me! Tropicals are ok so long as they can overwinter in a closet or the basement. So if hydrangeas, after being happy for many years at my home, are now going to be problem children, this may have to be the end of it for me and them.
Happy, I called 2 companies that specialize in Mycorrhizae. They both said that the unprocessed varieties, which are actually living plant threads have a very short shelf life and require refrigeration. They both said that the dormant varieties can have up to a 2 year life, but must be kept at room temperature or cooler, with refrigeration preferable.
I also called the companies that manufacture or distribute the Milky Spore, Diatomaceous Earth, Nematodes and Mycorrrhizae and asked about negative interactions. They all said that the products should work together without any problems.
The nematode company did say that harsh chemical insecticides will kill the nematodes.
If your PG was going to bloom this year you'd most likely be starting to see buds by now, if it's been under stress then it may not bloom though. They do bloom on new wood though so you can prune them anytime you want, although if it was just about getting ready to start some buds then you'd delay them and they probably wouldn't get around to making new ones this year. But if all you're pruning is branches that look like they're dead, even if they're not completely dead those branches are not going to bloom this year so I don't see any problem with trimming them.
Thanks, Ecrane. I did read that PeeGee is one of the last Hydrangeas to bloom so, I've been waiting................
I still think you're safe cutting dead looking branches, they may really be dead, but even if they're only almost dead I seriously doubt they'd be making flowers this year. But for healthy looking branches I'd leave them alone in hopes that you might still get buds.
OK Ecrane, Peegee has a haircut.
I've been potting up and planting lots of stuff. Several plants, including this Hydrangea Limelight have little white pieces clinging to the roots. Are they something from the potting mix or a problem? This one also had these little yellow balls in it. Plant food or evil guest?
Different view.
I too think that I am plagued with root weevils. Fortunately, knock on wood, they haven't taken out any hydrangea or other shrub and I pray they don't! They have, however, been picking off my Heuchera, preferring them. I also just recently lost a May Night Salvia. I did apply the HB nematodes I purchased in Spring from Buglogical.com. You have to apply them and then keep them watered in for 10 days to establish them in your soil. We had a terrible time last year with lawn grubs and that was the main reason I got them. I applied them to all my flower beds as well. They are supposed to take care of various weevils but I'm sure that some get away without being devoured by the nematodes. I use chemicals as a very last resort. I plan on continuing to purchase more nematodes and keep applying. I like the Milky Spore idea but keep reading conflicting info about their application. Some make it sound like one application and you're good to go but then I've read others where you need to apply in 3 consecutive seasons (I think that's what it was) before it is reaches it's full effectiveness. I didn't even know that weevils were my problem until joining DG and read about them. The decline in the Heuchera happens in a matter of 4 days before the plant is gone for good. I just recently pulled one up, rinsed it well and inspected the root. It had a large center root with 4 small branching off. The center root bottom 1/2" was soft and broke off easily. I rinsed it well and replanted it in a pot and I'm nursing it along. Still not sure if it will make it. My backyard lawn looks good though this summer but my front still looks like there may be grubs present. I plan to keep fighting! Good luck with your plants, it would be a terrible shame to lose them!
Medinac, Milky spore comes in two types of products. One is a powder that you hand apply every square foot. Usually one application is good for 15 years. If you have a really bad grub infestation, you may have to apply it again the 2nd year.
They also make a spreader mix to be used on lawns or large fields. This requires 3 applications a year for up to 5 years.
Medinac, do you think the items in my photos are weevils?
I'm inclined to say yes. With the heuchera, it starts out wilting as if it needs water. No matter what, it just continues to wilt and within 4-5 days it's soon to be a goner. A well versed Heuchera gardner told me to pour 100-120 degree water on the ground in winter and that will kill the larva. He said the plant will withstand the warm water, but in my case the plant has usually died but I could still use the water to kill the larva. Thanks for clearing up the Milky Spore thing. The one application one - it's just in a can and you sprinkle it? And that works for the weevils too? I have been losing Heuchera for about 3 or 4 years now. You HAVE to get rid of them or they just move onto the next plant. In the area where I've lost the most plants, I edged further out in spring and when I pulled up the grass, there were alot of grubs. Don't know what kind they were but they were grubs. You mentioned "good grubs" above. What is a good grub? I've always associated them with chewing of roots- bad grubs.... the kind the racoons love to dig up and eat - that's what happened to us, they trashed our lawn!
Medinac, You need a lot of the MS. It comes in 40 oz cans. They sell a sprinkling tube to use with it. The best price I've found on it is from Snow Pond Farms. I don't know if it works on weevils. Check out their website. Did you get the right kind of nematodes for weevils? I've never had a weevil problem, so i'm uneducated there.
It was Happy who spoke of the good grubs.
I have Japanese Beetle and June Bug Green Beetle grubs. People with long experience with it say it works on all kinds of white grubs, even though the distributor claims that it only works on Japanese Beetle grubs
STormyla: I don't think those are root weevil eggs, but just based on this photo: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/ARS_-_Diaprepes_abbreviatus_eggs.jpg. I don't know whose eggs they are, whether friend or foe.
I also read that Vine Weevil eggs are small, round and brown (roughly 0.8mm in diameter) and can easily be mistaken for slow-release fertiliser. See http://www.greenandeasy.co.uk/Product/Product.aspx?productkey=1191.
Stormyla-
Yes, I got the right nematodes for the weevils. Buglogical.com has lots of different beneficial insects and nematodes. If you go to their site scroll down to Nematodes and click under More Nematode Products and Information and then scroll down towards the bottom of the page and they explain which kind cover which pests. I bought the Heterohabditis Bacteriophora Nematodes (HB) which covers many different beetles, including the ones you have, and many different weevils.
Last year here was the year for Japanese Beetles but this year I'm seeing alot of June Beetles but not many Japanese. I guess I can fight them but if my neighbors don't, that makes it tough. We also border forest preserve so that doesn't help. That's why I'm so interested in the Milky Spore since it will stay active for years. I know that will be expensive but in the long run will probably be cheaper than doing the nematodes all the time and then having to water them in for 10 days is tough.
Like you said, I will have to find out exactly what pests the MS covers besides the Japanese beetles.
What is your game plan going to be?