marmalade schmarmalade this plant didn't make it for me

Laguna Niguel, CA(Zone 10a)

I bought three of the most gorgeous plants last year and they wilted immediately. I tried moving them and thought they were gone. This spring, two of them came back. One of them was really nice and big and one of them was a wimp. I moved the wimp and he's still wimping along. The big one was doing really well and then he started wilting again. So I dug him up and he's in my rehab center. He looks terrible. I've done really well with the burgendy varities. My first ones were Chocolate Ruffles and found Crimson Curls, Obsidian, Palace Purple and a few others. I have the Lime Rickey and it needs the perfect spot. I'll send a picture of one of them that has a few brown leaves but otherwise is looking good. I have the yellow one with the red center on the leaves. I do have the spice one and he's doing okay in one spot. I have another one that is doing horrible. I find the newer varieties to be questionable as far as hardiness and I don't want to fight them. OTOH, My brunerras are touch. They can burn or get too hot, but they always recover.

Any luck with the Marmalades? What do they need? They seem pretty schizo to me.

Crazy

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(GayLynn) Appleton, WI(Zone 5a)

This is my first year with the marmalade. So far so good. But will have to wait to see how it over winters here. While the plant itself is doing well, It's not one of my favorites. Mine is grown in full shade (gets only about 2 hrs. of sun from 4 p.m. until 6 p.m.)

Your brunerra looks terrific in that picture. Been wanting to get me some of those.
GayLynn

This message was edited Jul 4, 2008 6:35 PM

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(GayLynn) Appleton, WI(Zone 5a)

Lots of different colors going on with it.

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Laguna Niguel, CA(Zone 10a)

I really liked my marmalades when I got them. They were the biggest healthiest plants I'd seen. And they were very peachy in color, not as varied as yours. Not green at all. And then they shrivled up and now they are almost dead. One died last year. I moved a small one right away when I saw it. And the bigger one started out great and then shrivled up for no apparent reason. I prefer plants with hardiness and vigor. Even ligularies after wilting will spring back when the sun goes down. Most of my red heucheras do well in part sun. I remove the crunchier leaves to keep them looking good and try and keep their feet wet. Once they get established, they don't sem to mind the sun as much. I thought the marmalade came back this spring so strong and then gave up the ghost. It was under a Japanese maple with hostas, creeping jenny and pieres. Only morning sun. I am not sure.

My brunneras have been the best surprise for me. I recommend them highly. They aren't as good the first year, but once established, they are wowers.

Crazy

Bensenville, IL(Zone 5a)

I don't have Marmalade so I can't help there It seems the dark leaved ones are all pretty hardy. I LOVE your Brunnera, it really brightens up the shady garden, just beautiful. I plan on getting some of those myself. Thanks for sharing your pictures. Can you tell us the name of the green one in your picture?

Laguna Niguel, CA(Zone 10a)

Thanks for the comments. The green plant in the photo is a clumping bleeding heart that does not go dormant and is very nice mix with heuchera, brunnera and hosta and astilbe.

here is a link

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/81730/

Bensenville, IL(Zone 5a)

O.k. Crazy4plants - Thanks for the info. Abou the Heuchera - don't feel bad, it's not you. I have watched for 2 days now, a Peach Flambe go from a beautiful, full healthy plant to a wilting one. I thought it was our recent dry weather so I watered it both days. I got up this morning and there it was looking worse today. I dig her up. I got her sitting in water right now to get the dirt off and inspect her roots and stem to see if there's bugs or anything. I sprayed nematodes in Spring. I was hoping it would take care of any black vine weevils that may be lurking about since I thought maybe that's what has killed some of mine in the past. Same symptoms. This for me, is the most frustrating part of growing Heuchera. I always say "that's the last one I'm buying, I can't take this anymore" but then I see a really pretty one and I can't resist. Actually now, I think I will only buy villosa strains as I hear they are more hardy (at least weather-wise). I think I need to visit the bookstore and get a couple of books on them. My dear friend and neighbor laughs at me when we visit the garden centers together and watches me as I browse and select my next Heuchera. She's lost several the same way.... she teases me "oh, just tear up that $20 bill right now, you know you're just wasting your money on that one". We laugh all the way to the check-out counter as she feeds her Delphinium habit, which she can't get to come back a second season!

Laguna Niguel, CA(Zone 10a)

Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your Peaches, becuase I was ready to go out and buy some. I really love that color and want some. I don't have anything in that shade in my garden. I loved mine when I bought them. They were one gallons, big lucious plants. I agonized over paying the price and then bit the bullet because I told myself they were so big and healthy, they would survive. My hostas have done very well there and it is quite moist. One after another. I know one of them is gimping on, but it is a wimp size. The other one appears to be dead, but we'll see. I can't imagine I'd have weavels on three plants and none of my other 20 heucheras all around them.

Someone told me somewhere, maybe at one of the nurseries, that these hybrids are not that hardy. To give them a couple of years and find out which ones past the test of time because a lot of them do not do well in harsher climates. I know, for example, that Seattle is zone 7 does better with heuchera than Eastern Wa. 5b where I live. It gets hotter here in summers and we get less rain. So these more delicate varities may not do as well here. I'm so sorry. I hope your peaches come back.

Chocolate ruffles has been the best heuchera I've ever owned. It will take just about anything. And it gets really big. It is not this neat peach color.

I have good luck with delphiniums, believe it or not. I've got four of them that get so huge that I have to cut about six blooms off of them or they will over bloom themselves. I bought them in '05 and they are sitll going strong.

Crazy

(GayLynn) Appleton, WI(Zone 5a)

Awe, that is really too bad about your Peach Flambe. I know you were saying at one point that they weren't doing too well and the color was poor, but then you had said that they were starting to look so good with improving color. The pictures of them you posted a couple of days ago looked really good. I wonder if it could be your soil. Have you ever had it tested? I know I should test my soil also as I never had. I hope you find the problem.

Bensenville, IL(Zone 5a)

I have several Peaches in different places and they are all doing well now except for one that never really came back well from spring. Small and wimpy as Crazy would say and gimping along! So, they were all doing much better until the one started wilting (not ones I posted the other day). It had been there since the beginning of last summer and seemed to really like its place. GayLynn, I think it is my soil and my water. We have our own well and I checked the water PH the other day and it was 8.4. Very alkaline. I'm not sure how much that plays into the mix but I'm sure it has to affect the more acid loving plants somehow. It probably is my dirt. The whole one side of my backyard is not doing so well. In Sept. I plan on pulling all the plants out of there (whats left) and putting them in the holding pen in my veggie garden. I'll till in lots of compost and I think I'll lay chopped up leaves over it for good measure and let it set for winter and then replant in Spring. I've read over and over that you can amend your soil PH but it will eventually revert back anyway. That's discouraging. I think I have soil kits here and will try that. I really should get various samples and send them to the Extension for analysis.

Crazy - I'm adding Chocolate Ruffles to my list. I've been making a list of names of all the villosa strains I can find on the internet as I've read they are hardy for hot humid climates (and my fav. garden center always recommends them to me as successes for our area). Here's an article worth reading... I hope it works for you, I had saved it in a bookmark. I don't know how to do a hyperlink. I feel so inept with this stuff sometimes! http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/532/ Also, could you post a picture of Choc. Ruff. and tell us about its growing conditions and how many years it's been in. I think we should share the ones that have been hugely successful for us. THOSE are the ones I want to buy! I'm happy for you with your Delphinium, they are soooo beautiful.... but... I won't tell my neighbor!

I did buy 5 Miracle from ebay. They are tiny first years but I've got them in pots in potting soil and they're coming along and growing nicely. I spent $40 total so if they don't make it, I won't feel as bad as spending the $100 I would have at the garden center. They're going in the frontyard bed so I'd better get busy preparing that one now!

I can't help but get into this!
Medinac & I have been exchanging ideas about her Peach Flambee (and I see that I was way behind the curve on that!).
I was born and grew up in scintillating Spokane, and the climate where I live now is, if anything, a bit harsher, with more marked contrasts from Summer to Winter and sunshine more like Yakima than Spokane.
In the midst of this, my new Marmalade is thriving! It gets 0 to 1/2 hr of shade per day! It's fantastic! Nearby, Peach Flambee may get 2 - 4 hrs of shade. It's doing fine, although not as spectacular as Marmalade.

Here are some photos. We are looking just a bit south of east on the bigger shots.

Now, I know that things are usually more expensive here, but I paid about $15.00 for each of these plants. Medinac, I would not pay $8.00 on Ebay for 1 yr plants.

With these patented plants, you get what you pay for. And that's a fact! TNN & Dan Heims invest a LOT in developing their plants and ensuring quality. Heims is very quick to withdraw weak cultivars from the trade when they don't live up in home gardens to their performance in trial gardens. If you buy off eBay, you are probably buying pirated plants. If the plants you buy in your local nursery don't have the TNN or Primrose Path or Labroye "etiquettes" (what's that in American? "plant labels"? like the ones you can see on their websites), there's a good chance you bought pirated plants. If you DID buy patented hybrids and they have bizarre growth/behaviour patterns, I encourage you to write the originating nursery. Thay don't want bad plants around. They will use your info to decide to withdraw a plant or to improve it. The nurseries developing these new hybrid heucheras are all still small, family, human-scale businesses (with often huge investments). They will almost certainly not just listen and reply to your complaints if fairly presented; if the plants really were theirs, they will likely replace them.

In my local garden store, Caramel costs Euros 30,00. That's US$ 47.50. But it's a real Caramel.
So I shopped around for my Caramel. I finally paid Euros 8.00 (about US$ 15.00). It wasn't a gallon pot, but it was healthy and vigorous AND was grown by a nursery licensed by TNN to produce it.

I would argue that buying $8.00 plants off eBay encourages piracy, the distribution of poorly propagated plants (often bearing odd diseases) and a cynicism about new hybrid plants, whereas far fewer problems are encountered when buying "the real thing".

And, no, just because it is sold at Wal-Mart, Lowes, Home Depot or another of those disreputable American mass marketers is NO GUARANTEE that the plant is of legitimate parentage. After all, what percentage of their products is "Made in China"? [Last time I was in the States, I bought a packet of bean seed at Home Depot, only to read on the packet when I got home "Product of China".] This is not a joke. People are being ripped off by being sold "labelled" plants without the nursery labels. They are fakes! They fall apart just like Louis Vuitton bags bought on the street in New York do. It's not then the "plant's" fault.

Just an observation.

And here's the photos.

Potagere

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Laguna Niguel, CA(Zone 10a)

Very interesting. I bought mine at a reputable nursery here in Spokane and they were gorgeous when I got them. The've gone through several spells. One of them died almost immediately. I wondered whether these plants sold at some of the larger stores were the real deal because of the low cost. I bought my crimson curls from HD for 5.95 and that sounds too good to be true. Many of the plants are mismarked.

France, how interesting. I love France. Hard to believe it is harsher climate than here.

Crazy

Trust me, it's more like Yakima than Spokane where I live!
Moving a bit south, it's even harsher!

Not too many serious nurseries there when I was back last year! In fact, the one up by the cemetery on the South Hill (in the Valley) is about the only one I can think of.

Sometimes even good plants are offered at bargain prices. With these patented hybrids, however, the key remains in the labelling. If the plants have TNN, Primrose Path or Labroye labels like you can see on their respective Websites, they probably are plants that were produced under license and are what they claim to be. If they just have a "WallyWorld" (is that REALLY a store in America?) label saying "Crimson Curls", they probably aren't. And, guess what? A lot of "nurseries" grow the plants from seed!!! And because the seed came from a "Crimson Curls", they call all the seedlings "Crimson Curls". Wanna guess what the odds are of those seedlings resembling the parents?

Most of those plants are not "mismarked", in the sense that an error has been made; they are misleadingly labelled. And the average person working in the plant department (if you can call it that) of HD wouldn't know a heuchera from a tiarella from a squash!

My wife can spot a fake Louis Vuitton or Chanel bag from a block away. Unless the early leaves of a plant you buy are distinctively different from those of the plant as "labelled" (or if you buy it sight unseen by mail order or off eBay), you can't spot the fake until it goes sickly, dies or turns into an "Eco-magnififolia"!

Personally, I think 'Marmalade' is a really great plant!

Potagere

Laguna Niguel, CA(Zone 10a)

I bought my Marmalades from Mel's on the northside. It is a boutique nursery. They have a lot of nice furniture and a decent selection of plants. I've never thought they sold the fake stuff. Then there is Stanek's on the south hill, and I do buy some stuff there. And Gibsons is in the valley. I wonder if that is the one you're thinking of. I didn't realize that the plants were passed on in this way. I've bought so many plants at HD that I've lost or had problems with. Half of the time they have annuals labeled as perennials and zoned incorrectly. They had wooly thyme ground covers all labeled as sedums. The whole batch of them.

Bensenville, IL(Zone 5a)

When I bought my Lime Rickeys, Peach Flambe and Sparkling Burgundy they all had the Terra Nova Nursery tags on them. All 5 Lime Rickeys bit the dust. I replaced them, they bit the dust. The Sparkling Burgundys are doing pretty well, have not lost one yet... ooooh probably shouldn't say that. And well, I've lost a few of the Peach Flambe. As far as buying the Miracle off of Ebay, I never even thought of pirated plants! The thought never entered my mind. I guess maybe I just don't think that way. Or, perhaps I'm just naive. The person (a Wisconsin woman ) I bought them from, my impression anyway, seemed to be someone who started these plants from seed, which I assume is her plant. Is this wrong or illegal to do this and then sell?

~ Crazy: I don't know Mel's at all, and am embarrassed to say that I completely forgot about Stanek's! They've been there forever. I think their original greenhouses are at the top of Sunset Hill. Gibson's is indeed the one I found last year. You made me laugh about HD labelling!!! I wonder what qualifies someone to be a plant buyer at HD?

~ medinac: I think I heard somewhere that "Lime Rickey" will be withdrawn because it has not proven as strong in regular gardens as it did in the trial gardens. As for "Miracle", so far as I can tell, it is still PPAF (Plant Patent Applied For), so it is legal for anyone to propagate and sell it, even on eBay. These hybrids are propagated by the big nurseries in tissue culture. If those you bought were propagated by division, you should have "real" Miracles, clones of her original. If she grew them from seed, there is no way they would come out as "Miracle"!!

Someone said on one of the other threads that they pot up their plants and move them around until they find a spot they like. I wish I had done this with some of mine. Sounds like a good ideam especially for the temperamental ones! In any case, they all make great pot plants! I've seen pictures of some heuchera gardens that were completely pot gardens!

Norristown, PA(Zone 6b)

I started reading this thread as I am in the process of expanding my Heuchera collection. With the glut of an unusual amount of rain this summer, some of my newer plants are stressed. This is true of many types of plants that are plagued with mildews and molds and various wet feet diseases. Of course, the younger plants are more susceptible. The Japanese beetles seem to love anything from Terra Nova.

In the past 10 years, I have purchased 1000's of plants on Ebay.The people who sell the most plants on Ebay are Retail Nurseries. When they purchase stock from the growers, they get the best prices if purchasing large quantities of single items. Most of them will purchase more than they can sell at their store, and list them on Ebay to recoup their investment. With rare exception, Ebay sellers almost always stand behind their products. Their replacement policies are no better or worse than that of local nurseries. Many sellers are selling divisions from their personal gardens and proudly state that in their auction pages. The plants that are from Terra Nova come with the Terra Nova tags and the Proven Winners are also properly tagged.

The people who specialize in native woodland plants collect them from their own locales. Many of the hosta dealers raise their inventory from tissue culture.

To make a blanket statement like "If you buy off Ebay, you are probably buying pirated plants" is irresponsible, uninformed and slanderous to many of the world's finest nurseries and home growers
There are hundreds of Ebay sellers listed in the Garden Watchdog. Many of the DGer's reports about nurseries in the garden watchdog start out with "I first came across this nursery on Ebay".

Anyone interested in finding a vast array of quality plants at often very reasonable prices should look to Ebay as their first source. The education available to the public from the information on the Auction pages is invaluable. The sellers will happily answer all questions about the plants both pre and post sale. Many sellers offer newsletters, coupons, email notices of specials and will also keep track of your special shopping lists.

I have paid top dollar for poorly performing plants at the most expensive well known nurseries. Some of my most vigorous beauties have come from Lowes and Home Depot.

Buying plants is like a visit to the beauty parlor. You can get a lousy haircut for $100 and a good one for $25; and visa versa.

Franklin, OH

Have to agree with Stormyla about buying plants from Ebay. I've have had good luck with all my purchases except the woman in Wisconsin.(imtimm2) The three I got from her were painfully small and died right away. I will never buy from her again.The others were actual nurseries. Many have the Terra Nova labels. I have bought from four different nurseries ( who have Ebay stores) The plants arrive in great condition and are usually in 3" pots. My local nurseries only have a few varieties available, so I have to look elsewhere for other varieties. Just got 8 new ones today.Six from JBF: midnight rose, plum pudding, mocha, sashay, hollywood, and pewter moon. The other two were from Bird Song Farm : cappacino and coral cloud. All were in great condition and packaged well for the shipment. The Lowes and Home Depots around here only sell palace purple. I will continue to buy plants off of Ebay if it is an established business.

I stand corrected.

I will add, however, that anyone selling a division of a patented plant out of their personal garden in selling a "pirated" plant. Legally, that is identical to selling copies of CDs or DVDs from your personal collection.

Potagere

This message was edited Jul 11, 2008 6:15 AM

This message was edited Jul 11, 2008 6:15 AM

Perkasie, PA(Zone 6b)

Of my 6 Marmalades, 4 are fine. On one slope, I have a Papa Bear, Momma Bear, Baby Bear effect - I have no idea why they are doing so differently! In another spot, I have one new and 2 older plants. Went away for five days and came back to find that the older plant that was sickly looks good -- and the older one that was good looks awful!

I think I'm coming to regard heucheras as I do azaleas: maybe they will, maybe they won't.

Ottawa, ON(Zone 5a)

Just checked in here for the first time today. I'm so addicted to Hostas that I've tried to avoid getting to know the names of my Huecheras, but I think it's gradually becoming necessary.

Anyway, my Lime Rickey is about 3 years old and it's HUGE. Certainly has grown well for me. It gets quite a bit of afternoon sun.

Ann

Hi all!

Please come see the 2008 Humongous Heuchera Hoedown at: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/889114/
and sign up soon!

Perkasie, PA(Zone 6b)

Cool!

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