WARNING for those as totally inexperianced as myself.

Well, this is my third season trying to grow my own vegetables and if I had to depend on the bounty of my garden I would have starved too death long ago. My latest plunder was so stupid on my part that I had to start this embarrassing thread.

SEASON1
In the first year, I looked at the yard and determined that the only place on the property that got enough sun to possibly grow veggies was dead in the middle of the front yard near the street. It was late in the season and I wanted to get it going fast. I purchased untreated 2x4 lumber from the closest source. I could have gotten it for slightly less expense from Lowe's but the fuel to get there would have offset any savings (not to mention the additional thirty minute drive each way). I used spikes to set the first layer of lumber to the ground and built two 4ft x 16ft beds. At the same time I contracted with a local nursery to deliver a truck load of compost. The next day I determined that the "compost" was actually topsoil harvested from a local farm, plenty of organic mater, as in leaves, twiggs, sticks, cow manure, and rocks (from the size of pebbles to boulders). Three afternoons later, armed with a wheel barrel, a section of ¼ inch mesh wire & a shovel I had the "compost" seperated into: a) the beds, b) a pile of stone & c) the stuff that had not been screened yet. And still I was no where near filling my beds with planting medium. Back to the store where I bought my lumber - they had Peat moss in large bales. I cannot tell you how many I purchased, I loaded the Escort on two trips. Ok I may have overloaded it a bit as the tailpipe was dragging the ground.

I spread the peat moss throughout the beds and turned it into the compost as well as I could by hand. By this time my carefully started tomato plants (from purchased seed) had all died from neglect, lack of sun & water. What too do? Buy plants! I bought plants from a local farmer & from Lowe's and when I went to plant them in these "perfect" beds , I found that my wifes cats had decided that I had in fact built them the worlds largest kitty litter box! Back to the store, fence post, rabbit fencing, chicken coop wire.

I actually got a few good tomatoes. They probably cost about 33.00 a pound but they tasted better than what I could buy at the grocery store.

I had planted a few broccoli plants late in the year for a (hopefully) fall crop. As I got home late one afternoon & needed to water stuff (heck I had enough stuff dying left and right). I watered the garden and neglected to close the gate properly, of course the danged hillbilly cats got in there and used the beds for a litter box as was evidenced by the unmistakable digging. The thing that struck me was the fact that the broccoli planted near where they dug sprang up and grew profusely. Ok the beds need more nutrients? right?

SEASON 2
Lowe's has a special on bagged compost! That should take care of the nutrient problem. Bought a bunch of it, never got it down because of a hip replacement operation at the University Of Virginia (another really long story). Then got it into the garden, too late in the season to do anything and I was in no condition to grow anything. Could not get the walker around well enough to get down the front steps. That pretty well covers that season.

This SEASON!
The soil in the beds looks good! I have killed so many seedlings in the last two years that I am not trying much in the "start from seed mode" so go to Lowe's and buy plants, use the electric tiller to turn every thing in and start planting!

I have killed everything - because I was way to smart for myself. I figure that if coffee grounds are so good for both plants and worms then "left over" coffee must be good also so I poured it into the watering jug without realizing that it would raise the PH level to an unacceptable level for my beloved tomato plants.

Note: If you can grow it, I can figure out how to kill it without intending to!

The warning is - talk to your fellow gardeners that have more experience, they can stop you from making expensive mistakes, and were I relying on a crop for food to sustain me?

LOL Dyson! Your gardening lessons are costing you as much as a good college education, aren't they!? But, hopefully, you're having fun doing it. And look at it this way--not only are you starving to death but your getting lots of workout time to burn what few calories you might have had left! Hope you have better luck next year. Put that bionic hip to good use. I have a couple of bionic body parts to help me with my gardening these days too.

What a great thread! Boy have we learned to. We learned that we can't grow tomatoes from seed to save our lives. Our plants are spindly and with no strength so we buy them now. I read an extensive thread on how to grow tomatoes from seed on Dave's here, great wealth of info, but just to much for me to handle right now. With limited time (young kids under foot) the best we can hope for is even planting our own food! And from the store plant it will still taste 100 times better than the grocery store baseballs. :)

I have not had the pleasure of going through an airport metal detector since the operation but I am really looking forward to that ordeal.

Maybe next time I need to fly somewheres I will just build a set of fake wings and then fake actually getting there.

I am really hoping that the heavy storms that have hit here in the last three days have diluted the soil in the beds enough to bring the PH back down enough that what is still alive remains so. I bought a PH test kit and will use it tomorrow. If my eye sight is still good enough to interpret it I should be able to amend the soil & keep the remaining few plants alive.

At this point I am not even worried about a harvest. I just want to know that I can keep a plant in a semi living state.



This message was edited Jun 30, 2008 6:31 AM

Oh, lordy, the things I've learned too! This is my third year with a yard. I've learned that the only tomatoes that will grow well for me are cherry tomatoes. I'll keep trying the bigger ones, but for some reason they just won't produce for me. Asparagus needs more water than you think it does. Mercifully we've recently had some soaking rains and that's how I know. All of a sudden an explosion of growth. Okay, maybe I'll have to stash a sprinkler by the asparagus bed... Basil behaves like a weed. Thankfully I love the stuff, but it self-seeds EVERYWHERE. Rosemary, when in full sun and well-drained soil, will try to take over the world. Leaf lettuce is hardier than you think and will survive a frost if covered with a sheet. Eggplant loves hot weather, bless it's heart! It gets hotter than the hammers of Hades here in Savannah, and I love eggplant. The Dreaded Squash Vine Borer will break your heart. Don't believe them when they tell you peppers are a hot weather crop. Hot weather will stop them in their tracks, at least mine... So far I've had my best success with herbs, but I'll keep on keeping on with veggies... God, how I love digging in the dirt!

You all are so funny. I love this thread.

My first veggie garden, just a couple of years ago, I planted 7 tomato plants too many. No one told me they would produce so many tomatoes! My neighbors thought I was crazy for growing so many of them.

Dyson, as usual, you are good for a great ROTFLOL kind of laugh. . . . and I thought the tomatoes in the grocery store were expensive!!!

Now I don't have any bionic parts but my DH does--he has a mechanical heart valve and we both have pacemakers. You should see the security people look askance at us when we tell them we both have pacemakers and we both have to be "patted down" by hand (now THERE"S an experience!) --can't go through their little magnetic gate or whatever they call it. They say, without fail: "You BOTH have pacemakers?" like we would make up something like that for some weird reason! It would serve them right if we decided to go through their "gate" and just see what happens. The thing is, I don't know if we would "zap" the gate or the gate would "zap" us. Better not try it--I don't want to be electrocuted by my pacemaker! LOL
Better luck with the veggies next year. (I knew there was a reason I don't grow veggies.)
Marilyn

Dyson, off the veggie topic, but I can tell you I have some metal parts and I've flown several times since then NEVER have set off anything!

Hubby had his ankle fused and the doc added several large screws. It took a total of nine months for him to completely heal so, needless to say, he got quite bored. I used to take him for an outing at least a couple of times a week. First time we went out it was to our Home Depot. We got him one of those little motorized buggies to ride around in and when he went through the door, he set the alarm off. Two people came to check him out and I said, "Hey, we're going IN, not OUT! We explained about the screws and everyone got a good laugh. HD folks explained that they were aware they needed to have their alarm company come back out and adjust their system. These bionic body parts can be interesting at times, LOL!

Dyson, ROFL at your story and it has happened to us all, inexperienced or not. Love your sense of humor and you hold onto that, comes in handy often. DH has had knee repl. and gets "wanded" anytime we fly. Also, a good resource for questions is your county extension agent.

LOL, funny!!!
Yesterday we discovered a weeping almost dead squash plant Hubby was beside himself. He had babied this one plant. Found a white worm looking thing. I killed that bug but went to inspecting the other plants and yes something has got into the stems, so Hubby tells me go get on your computer and hurry and find out how to get rid of these things. I do cant find the answer so he is on the phone calling his mom, their not home. Then he is calling a friend, they are not home. He is frantic now and calling everyone he can think of. Finally gets someone on the phone and they say hmmmmmmm, Ive never had them before. He is like what do they just like my garden. So now its to the store to buy bug be gone or liquid 7. I didnt want to use any chemicals but I sure dont want them critters eating my plants either.

We are also living and learning. Hubby wanted to do the garden the traditional way, as his grandpa taught him many moons ago, now I have him convinced into a raised sectioned off bed. He is sick of watching the grass grow better in the garden than in the yard. He says he knows how now to get the grass to grow in the yard, till it and plant veggies.

You can use Bacillus Thuringensis(sp) better known as Bt or Dipel. It's considered organic, and kills caterpillars and such. There are things that can be injected into the stems that will kill off the "worms", or you can slit the stems lengthwise, pull them out, and bury the cut part, which should heal.

Ha!, I noticed while tilling out an old neglected bed how much better the soil seemed to be than in the rest of the yard. I also noticed how much better the rocks seem to grow there. Now, where can I find a market for these rocks?

Thanks I will see if I can get the Bt. We did go out there and flush out the cut part with water and buried the stalk up. They seem to be doing ok now. Lost 2 plants yesterday.

I hear ya about growing rocks. It seems they grow well here also. Along with sticks.
My rocks are mostly sandstone so not good for anything. I do have a gold fish pond If I could just find some usable rocks. Going on vacation this weekend and will pick up some there at the lake house. :)

Thanks for some good laughs, friends!

Anyone else read "The $64 Tomato" yet? It's right along the same lines, and a fun summer read for the vegetable-ly inclined.

I have not yet read "The $64 Tomato" but have put it on my list of things to read during the winter.
Now it is off to the store to spend some more money that I do not have on yet more planting materials for the bed that I an trying to refurbish and make into a herb bed.

The $64 Dollar Tomato is looking down at me from the shelp above my computer.

Personally, I think he got a deal.....

I was right there too last year. Bought everything on the shelf (and some things probably more than once!) in my anti-ground squirrel attempts. These are obviously south-of-the-border ground squirrels--they actually went for the tomatoes with the pepper spray over the ones without--ditto for the garlic spray. I think they were making salsa...

LMAO making salsa.

Did you get a good salsa recipe from them? This year if I get a ripe tomato, I will be amazed at my good fortune. "Squirrel Gravy" comes to mind, & I have thought of trying to get the Hillbilly Cats on the menu at a local restaurant.

They never would share... I think it was a family secret.

I periodically think about something similar with the neighbor's cats who have been frequenting my back yard in search of "the facilities". On the other hand, I don't have ground squirrel problems this year and I"m wondering if there's a connection: predator present, prey goes elsewhere... natural control, works for me! So I guess I'll just get out the pooper scooper I thought I'd retired, and thank my lucky stars that I'm the one eating the tomatoes this year!

The cats came here because I was overrun with mice, but at the rate they multiply I need a few mice to feed them. Somewheres there has to be a happy balance. Anyone got any mice they can spare?

BT is sold under the commercial name of Dipel. It will only work on the larva, so you're going to have to the slit the stem get the critter method, with your squash, I'm afraid. Try planting some radishes to act as a "trap crop" to draw off the squash beetles.

Dyson, I doubt very much the pouring coffee in your bed is the source of your acidic problem, you'd need it by the tractor trailer load, however, peat moss is very acidic and that's probably where that's coming from, some lime worked in the bed should help off set the acidity.

If you can grow cherry tomatoes you CAN grow the big one's as well. You might check with your local extension office for some help with that. Normally there are Master Gardeners who can answer your questions and have a good idea about local "quirks" in the microclimate. :)

Love this thread, ya'll got great senses of humor!

Of course, it's laugh or cry... :)

Dyson--lol! Sorry to hear about your losses, but your sense of humor about it is wonderful.

I'm a novice gardener myself, but if there is one book that I would highly recommend for you it would be "The New Organic Grower" by Eliot Coleman. Don't be put off by the title--yes some of it is written with the market gardener in mind but there's a wealth of information for home and market gardener alike. Two autumns ago when I was preparing a new area for my garden for use last spring I used his soil amendment recommendations (along with some additional manure) and my garden was outstanding. His suggestions are very basic and simple--usually lime, phosphate rock and greensand along with compost, etc.

Btw I don't get any reimbursement for my suggestion ;) I'm just a huge fan of his and his wife's work and have found their books invaluable in my gardening endeavors. A friend of mine used his same suggestions for when she got her little tomato patch ready last fall and this year her tomatoes are thriving. Just a suggestion. Good luck!

I will look for a copy, closest libraries first.

That's exactly what I did when I read my first copy. Hope you enjoy it! :)

Niere: what is "greensand"?

speaking of salsa (LOL): I really do have a great recipe for homemade salsa if anyone is interested. It makes a bunch,too!

no ground squirrels or cat problems here--just one very annoying mole!!!

marsue, I reckon that your salsa recipe calls for tomatoes? I'll take a rain-check on that till I actually have some of them.

I haven't even looked at the garden today. It is getting too depressing. Anyone got the number for the gardeners version of the suicide prevention hot line? Maybe I will just sit out there and expire with my plants, It maybe interesting to see which of us goes first.

Marsue--I'll just take this straight from E.C.'s book, page 95:

"Greensand Marl (Glauconite): An ancient seabed deposit containing some potassium, but principally included as a broad-spectrum source of micronutrients."

Dyson--the growing season is not over, and your's is a heck of a lot longer than mine! If your plants are a lost cause, you may want to consider pulling them. I'd also get a soil test on your beds so you know exactly where you stand soil-wise. If that's not an option for any reason I would agree with doccat5 that adding some lime to your soil would really help with the acidity. If you wanted to, you could start over and the next few weeks would be the ideal time for putting in fall crops. You could still have time to put in broccoli (the broccoli I intend to grow is still in the seed packet, will start it soon) beets, spinach and the like.

This year I plan on doing some "four-season gardening" which means I hope to have some greens available under my coldframes come this winter. I'm sure I'll screw it up ;) but that's how I'll learn to do it better next year. :)

Edit--Darius, we cross-posted. :D

This message was edited Jul 2, 2008 5:26 PM

This article I wrote explains more about micronutrients:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/727/

Dyson, don't give up. You actually have time to start over, if you want. I had a pretty disappointing garden so far, but I'm ging to keep trying, I think. Today I'm going to replant green beans, summer squash and start my pumpkins and winter squash. Plant some 'mater seeds for August plant out. Just put in more corn and okra. Maybe I'm tilting at windmills, but I haven't given up _quite_ yet.

Could be I'll join you soon enough if we don't get any rain, tho. I remeber rain, I think. Isn't that when water falls from the sky in little drops?

sigh.....

Thanks for the info on greensand, Darius and Niere. If it loosens clay soils then I really need to get some. About all we have down here is clay soil! :o((

Thank you everyone for the words of encouragement. I finished refurbishing the old flower bed and will post pics of the process on this thread soon. The Hillbilly cats are already using it for a litter box and I can find neither that roll of chicken coop wire nor the 12guage.

I found the chicken coop wire - but lost a hard drive with the recent pics (I back up often, but not that often). I do not think that the chicken coop wire will help with data recovery, and neither the 12 gauge (which I still have not found). Did find some shells, but they look older than I am. I know it was in one of those closets at some time in the last 5 or was that 7 years?

Dyson, have you tried uploading your photos to the web? Picasa (free photo software) has a website (also free) where you can upload as many as 4000 photos to your own private website. Only those who are invited by you can see your photos. No danger of losing your pictures to a crashing computer.

Dyson, if this was football and I was the coach, I would be looking for a new job. I have had three losing seasons in a row. My kids and neighbors are asking why is it that the tomato plants are so tall with so many leaves and there are no tomatoes. And why is it that the squash plants are turning brown. My wife wants to know if she should be looking for something fresh from the store, how much money was spent on the new raised beds, and on and on.

I am thinking there is nothing wrong with our methods. It seems to me that this is nothing more than a generation problem, and you and I just might be in the wrong generation for gardening. When I was at home, my parents raised a garden each year and got their seeds and plants at the local feed store. As I recall, they just threw them onto the ground and stood back and watched them grow. Other than plowing, they never did anything special to the soil, never had a crop failure, and never had to answer 21 questions.

Marsue - I barley have time to download the pics from the camera to the computer - more time on the net?

fiddle - I will not give up, on anything I have decided to do - ever. And one day, Probably soon, that attatude will put me in the ground. But at least there I will become compost instead of trying to make it.

Finally got this machine back up & on line, now I have a lot of software to load.

Sorry for the lost pics, but at least I found the chicken wire (and some shells for the shotgun). Don't know if I would trust them though. Maybe they should be a part of history.

fiddle - I distinctly remember my stepfathers garden in Gloucester Va., He had a 5 acre plot, with the back 4 acres devoted to garden. I picked green beans forever, the compost pile was made of railroad timbers.

The first time I turned the garden with the Case tractor I ran it through the fence. That is a painful memory.