Calling All Iris Experts :)

Hello Everyone,

I have a question I hope someone can answer for me.

I have about 75 iris (all unnamed as I didn't keep any markers) which I have had planted for about 2 years. I realize that I may have put them in an area that doesn't get enough sun for them to bloom.

I scattered a few iris in my front bed and even though the fans are small, they have scapes. These ones that I put around the trees in the back have no scapes.

Hubby said he would make me a border around the front bed so that I can move the non blooming iris there and possibly get flowers on them next season.

My question is this.......would it be safe to move them now or should I wait until fall? I live in Maine and iris season is JUST starting. If I moved them now, is there a chance some might scape for me?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Kim

You can move iris any time. I have even moved them while blooming. As for scaping this year you would just be taking a chance. If you are going to move some move them all because being in the shade will not do anything eventually. I am in the same process but be aware that some might not bloom again till second year. I wait until July and know that blooming is over and cut down to 6inch fans. Moving is much easier. Hope this helps. BEV

I meant to say also that they will do alright with half a days sun.

I'd wait for a few weeks to move them just in case they still might bloom this year. Irises in full sun will often bloom earlier than those in partial shade. In my own beds, I have some of the same iris cultivars planted in both sunny and partially shady beds. Those in the sunnier bed typically bloom 1-2 weeks earlier than the partially shaded ones. So just because you don't see stalks forming yet on the irises in your backyard doesn't necessarily mean that they won't in another week or two.

If you still don't have stalks forming in a few weeks, then go ahead and move them. The earlier you get them moved, the longer they'll have to root in before winter, and the better your chances of getting bloom on them next spring. Tall beardeds perform best in full sun, so moving them out from under those trees is a good idea.

Laurie

Wow I am SO grateful for all the help.
I just went out and took a couple of pictures to show you all what I mean.

Here is a picture of one of the beds that I am referring to. I planted them under trees and they get mostly shade all day. I do see 2 of the larger ones are going to have blooms so maybe I should wait until July/August?

Here is the other "shade" bed.
Again, these have been in the ground approximately 2 years and not really any blooms

Now here is the front bed I was referring to in which I plan to do a border all around the front with the Iris. The only thing is, it's around a pine tree and we have VERY acidic soil so I'm wondering about PH problems? But I do have Iris in that bed doing well?

Here is an iris in the front bed with TINY foliage and check out the blooms. Yet some of the iris in the back 2 beds have LARGE foliage and don't bloom so I'm sure it must be a sun issue?

The differences in your flower:foliage ratio may have more to do with soil nutrients than available sunlight. Abundant foliage with little or no bloom sometimes results from feeding irises a high nitrogen fertilizer. I suppose soil pH might have something to do with it, too.

Bear in mind that when you plant irises within the root zone of trees, the trees will suck much of the water and nutrients out of the soil, leaving little for the irises. You should have soil tests run on your beds so that you know what, if any, amendments and fertilizers your soil needs for optimal iris performance. Just make sure that whatever you give the irises won't injure the trees. It would actually be best if you could create planting beds for the irises away from the root zones of your trees.

Again, I will suggest that you get those irises moved as early in the season as possible. I would do so as soon as they are finished blooming.

Laurie

I zoomed in on your photos and it looks like they may be planted a bit deep --- I did not see any part of rizomes above ground.....and I've been told that will inhibit blooming....but I may be off-base.....I'm still learning myself, maybe Laurie can look at them closer.....

I am in agreement...they look planted pretty deep

I looked closer too and I would say they are planted too deep. When planting them the fan will be tilted a little backward in order for the rizome to set level. You just barely cover the tops with a little soil. I noticed although the yellow ones are blooming, you never want to mulch iris. They like to be dry. I have lost a lot of iris from too much shade and grass and leaves covering the rizomes and rotting them. In this pics you can see the fans are tilted back and on the other side after the first year you can see the top of the rizomes and no mulch!!! Hope this helps if not I will take apics of the rizomes for you. BEV

WOW, such great information everyone :)
Hubby said that he was going to rototill the border for me and I will be sure to raise them higher. I'm also going to amend the soil with some lime. I'm sure next year will be a stellar year for them :) I don't really have to worry about rot as I pretty much have acidic sand here. It rains and an hour later everything is dry as a bone *lol*

Thank you everyone, I sure have learned alot :)

Kim

Your very welcome. Glad I could help anytime. BEV

Be sure to check with a tree expert before amending soil within the root zone of pine trees with lime. You sure don't want to damage your trees.

Bearded iris rhizomes should be fine as long as they are not buried more than 1/2" deep. I always plant my rzs with a light covering of soil. Some of them grow up out of the soil, and some of them bury themselves more deeply into it. I always figure they know best, so I leave them wherever they end up until I'm ready to dig and divide again.

Bear in mind that if you replant your irises, they probably won't give you optimal (or perhaps any) bloom next year. Best bloom comes on plants that have been undisturbed for 2-3 yrs.

Oh, and in reference to the photo of your yellow irises, it's not that they have short foliage; it's that full foliage typically grows on developing increases, not blooming rhizomes. That photo shows all blooming rhizomes with the exception of two small increases. That's why there's so little foliage on those particular plants.

Laurie

Wowzers Laurie, I had to read your last paragraph twice and I'm still confused *lol*
I'm not worried about the lime hurting the pine tree as it's a scrub pine and really kind of ugly *lol* If it was up to me, it would be gone but it's the only tree still left in the front *lol*
Still not sure I understand developing rhizomes versus blooming rhizomes *lol* Alot of mine have small fans and they have been in the ground for about 2 years now.
When I replant, how many inches should I keep between them? I would like to fit as many as I can.

Thank you all so much :)

Kim

OK, a brief tutorial on the life cycle of rhizomatous irises ...

Each rhizome will bloom only once in its lifetime. In most cases, the rhizome will also produce new baby rhizomes (increases) along its sides. These increases will then mature, bloom, and grow more increases. That's how a single rz becomes an entire clump of rzs in a few years. A large clump will include rhizomes at various stages of development, from tiny baby increases to fully mature, blooming size rhizomes. In many cases, rhizomes will only grow small, stunted leaves in the year that they bloom. After they have bloomed, they might not grow any leaves again at all, though they may continue to produce new increases. Bloomed rzs are often referred to as "mothers" for this reason.

When dividing large clumps, it's preferable (if your planting space is limited) to replant only the largest, unbloomed rzs from the clump. Those are the rzs most likely to bloom the following year. Small increases may be replanted but might take two or more years to mature to blooming size. Mothers may be replanted, but they won't bloom again and may or may not continue to produce more increases.

It's usually quite easy to tell bloomed mothers from unbloomed mature rzs because, as I said, bloomed mothers typically have little or no foliage. Unbloomed, mature rzs will have full, tall leaf fans.

The optimal distance between replanted rzs depends on the garden effect you want and how often you want to have to divide your clumps to prevent overcrowding and its associated diseases (overcrowded clumps are vulnerable to leaf diseases). It's best to allow enough room between rzs so that they can increase and expand for 3 yrs before requiring division. As I stated earlier, you will get the most abundant bloom on 2-3 yr old clumps, so you really want to avoid planting so closely that you'll have to divide every year. You'll just never get an impressive bloom display that way. With tall beardeds, I plant 18-24" apart.

I hope that helps clarify things for you.

Laurie

Wow Laurie, SO MUCH information.......I plan to print that out as there is just SO MUCH knowledge in it.
So, in looking at my pictures above.......mine are DEFINITELY overcrowded right? My rhizomes I think were mostly "baby" rhizomes?
Wow, 8 inches apart! I won't be able to fit too many in the border then. What in the world am I going to do with them all *lol* Maybe I will just have to squeeze one here and one there?
I have SO much to learn *lol*
I was hoping to never have to dig and divide again *lol* There goes that theory *lol* So do you throw out the "mothers" that are tired or do you keep them? What about people who NEVER dig and separate and always seem to have tons of flowers?
I guess there must be alot of dead mothers in those clumps when people don't dig and divide?

I hope I am following this right *lol*

Thank you again Laurie, I greatly appreciate your help.

Kim

Kim,
Some time ago I read somewhere that part of the rhizome suppose to show above ground .Preferrably pointing to the south ,it's going to help with the blooms.

I planted mine like that last year and hope whoever wrote it is right ? :-)

Laurie is that true ?

What a rude awakening to learn that you will have to dig and divide your irises regularly to maintain their bloom and health! LOL!

First, all irises are not created equal. Some cultivars are so tough and reliable that they'll continue to bloom no matter how they are abused and neglected. The vast majority of them, however, will become so overcrowded that they will strip their soil of essential nutrients and end up choking each other out, or they will be so starved that they simply won't be able to bloom. One of the ways to tell that a clump needs division is when its bloom diminishes. It's not uncommon to find large stands of non-blooming iris on abandoned homesteads. They're still alive, but they simply can't bloom under those neglected conditions.

Yes, your irises look overcrowded to me. Whether or not you originally planted mature rzs is difficult to tell. Even mature, blooming size rzs won't bloom if they aren't receiving what they need in the way of soil nutrients, water, and sunlight.

Undivided, overcrowded clumps are disease magnets. The old mothers eventually die and rot away, but sometimes the rot that eats the mothers will invade the healthy rzs, too, possibly killing off the entire clump.

I don't generally replant old mothers unless they're cultivars of which I have very little and am hoping for additional increase. What do I do with all the extra rhizomes? Give them away or sell them. It just depends on how many and which irises I have available at any given time. Flower gardening neighbors are usually good for taking some freebies. One year I gave hundreds of my extra unknown irises to the local extension service. They then distributed them to area gardeners. Municipal beautification projects are often grateful for plant donations. I always give away irises to garden club members for whom I do iris presentations. Folks here at DG are always eager to pay postage for free irises. In short, it's really not hard to find takers for extra irises.

Laurie

Eglantyne,

Conventional wisdom is to plant bearded rhizomes so that the tops of the rhizomes are exposed at the soil surface. There is, however, some wiggle room depending on specific growing and climatic conditions. In my severe winter climate, I like to have a bit of soil cover over my rhizomes. I have also been told that it's necessary to cover rzs in hot desert climates to prevent them from baking. In my experience, it's not as important to have the rz actually exposed to the sun as it is to make sure it isn't planted too deeply (no deeper than 1/2").

As far as which direction the rz should be planted, I just don't see as it really matters. Perhaps it might have some influence over the first year, but once the increases start growing, they'll be pointing in all directions, anyway.

Laurie

As you can see in my picture, I planted mine too close. That was two years ago and they were wonderful this year and I hate to move them again so soon . May do it next year. Some one gave me this tip and it is a good one. Take two rizomes and face them south at about 8inches apart then take one and face it north and facing between the other two. I think I only put mine 4inches apart so was too close, but you get many more iris in a row this way or just do it in clumps with about 12 inches between. BEV

Lauri is right , it doesn't matter which way they face this is the way mine are sorry. BEV

I have a collection of noid Iris's and I want to say thank you for all the tips I have learned on this page!

Very nice!! I wish I knew how to do that. BEV

Bottom row, 2nd picture--Wabash?

'Wabash' does sound familar...I also know I have
'Halloween Halo'(far left 4th one down) and more not pictured.
'Spiced Custard', 'Hi', 'Superstition' (the very first one), 'Jewel Baby'
"Forever Blue', 'Immortality', 'Cloud Ballet' .

your yellow and cream Sib. is Butter and Suger
i think ?

Laurie,

Lots of good info!

If soil gets depleted of nutrients, I'm wondering if you ever need to clean out the beds and add soil amendments (and replant divided rzs)?

I started a new bed 2 years ago after problems with borers. I dug up everything and cut out all the bad and put them back in all mixed up. This year I've been able to ID some so I'm going to be able to organize the bed, moving some. Just wondering how often soil amendments should occur.

Pixie, your noids are lovely. I like the mixing of the pinks in that upper right.

Beautiful photos, Pixie.

(Here we go again!)

Tazz, yes Butter & Sugar and something Brother is with it I think. LOL
Thank you Mrs. Ed... I have name tags somewhere, but I can't find them or if I can, they aren't readable!

This one opened today and the tag is gone. I had 15-20 rabbits last year and I swear they took them!! But I had a Owl, Hawk, and Eagle this winter.....haven't seen a rabbit since.

Any guess??


Hi Pirl!! LOL

This message was edited Jun 2, 2008 9:07 PM

Great color on that one, Pixie.

Thanks Pril, DH loves it because of the array of colors.

Mrs_Ed, my iris beds are on a rotating schedule of digging, dividing, and renovating. Every year I dig all of the irises out of one or more beds, then amend and fertilize the bed(s) as necessary before replanting. I have a soil test run on the bed(s) to make sure that I add only the recommended fertilizer(s), plus organic amendments such as alfalfa meal and well composted horse manure.

Regular bed renovation and amendment keeps the soil and plants healthy and happy.

Laurie

Cesar's Brother

Very good Laurie. Do they bloom the next year (those with complete renovation)?

dragonfly62 you can do it its free
its fun
PICASA 2 google

Mrs_Ed, not necessarily. It often takes irises two years to settle back in before resuming their regular bloom cycle. Some of that depends on how long they spend out of the ground before I get them replanted.

Laurie

I sure love irises.....

I do picasa but I have never seen a collage of different sized pictures....tell me how Tazzy or Pixie