What's better for mulch - straw, hay, wood chips?

I have some raised beds, big ones, but I do need to mulch my veggies. Can I use old hay or straw? Can I use commercial wood chip mulch? We have had a ton of rain, and the weeds are driving my bonkers!

Can't use newspaper because we live in a small town with a small newspaper.

Thanks!

Beth

First pull, cut, hoe or bash down as many of the weeds as you can.

Too bad you can't use newspaper. You could use cardboard. Grass clippings, put on thick help keep down weeds. A thick mat of old hay is good. And wood chips are OK too. All work to some degree, but it depends on the weeds you have. Some are more easily discouraged than others.

With any mulch, you may want to sprinkle on just a bit of some blood meal or other nitrogen fertilizer (preferably organic). As microbes break down the mulch, nitrogen is used up. I've read that many weeds actually prefer poor soil, so enriching the soil may help.

At least the rain makes pulling weeds easier!

As a last resort I guess you could use some "Weed and Feed" type product, but I haven't succumbed to this yet myself. But, I'm thinking about it for my asparagus bed!

Beth, old carpet scraps also work well. They will eventually rot but are good for a couple of seasons first without adding to the soil. I put the jute side UP for better footing, plus it doesn't look so tacky that way.

Many carpet scraps today are synthetic and will not break down. Make sure your carpet scraps are not synthetic fiber.

Actually I like the synthetic ones that do not break down... I just toss them later on. However, I am against purchasing synthetics of all kinds if possible.

Synthetic mulches do nothing for the soil biology. All they do is block light. They can not break down and support your soils organic content.

I never heard of this, but I wonder if you could use scraps of cloth (all 100% cotton, linen, wool or other natural fibres ? It wouldn't be practical to walk on I guess. Most of cloth sold as landscape material is synthetic.

You can use natural fibers, like burlap, cotton, in compost. They'd be fine in the bed. I don't think I'd use carpet for fear of those synthetics leaching chemicals into the soil. I wouldn't use it on a veggie garden.

Karen

Southcentral Pa. is full of city and village leaf dumps. There are horse stables all over the place and you are surrounded by farms and farm supply houses where there is ample straw and hay bales. Spoiled or old straw and hay is sold in Northcentral, Pa. for fifty cents a bale. One can only beat that price with free leaf sources. Most townships here blend leaves and ground wood to make a half finished material that is about half way into becoming compost and it is free or they will load it for $5.00 a truck or trailer load two days a week. The oldest of it comes with worms as an added bonus. It will not be long untill the smart townships work a deal to get some manure in with that mix and then they will be able to sell the finished compost. The farms supply the manure will get first use of finished compost for their fields. This will solve several chemical run off problems for them. The good stuff will not be free forever.

Anything that will rot is organic including natural fibre cloth but any of the above is easier to get and is more traditional to the gardener's hobby. Satisfactory in the eyes of the neighbors is a factor to consider too. I would love to have four chickens to weed my garden and eat bugs but someone or group have us in a no farm pet backyard situation but they will approve a sand mound for human waste that is far worse in many ways.

I just purchased a bale of straw and have been using it as a mulch on my veggies, just to keep the soil a bit moist so I don't have to water as often. My garden is way in the back of the property, my neighbors don't even see it. Is there a great difference in using new straw, I thought because it isn't packed down the plants would get more air, thus preventiny mold--- ???? I haven't put in right up against the main stems, just left a small space. Any thoughts?? It isn't too late to remove it.

Straw is excellent. Just fluff it on. Gravity and rain will nest or settle it down. The fluff should be about three or four inches thick. If weeds come through it they will be seated in soft moist soil thus easy to pull or hook out with a hoe. I mix it up sometimes just adding more straw and sometimes pulling or hoeing the weeds. Nothing wrong with adding grass clippings over some of the scarce newspaper on top of the straw as the season develops. You can hardly make a mistake doing what you are doing. A season of learning will set you into the practice of mulching. It is low light now fixing to rain. When I can shot hopefully tomorrow I will show you what we did today with straw in my gardens. I like the idea of mulch for many more reasons than just holding down most of the weeds. The worms will quickly move in. They pay for their keep by leaving you oodles of worm casts one of the best known natural fertilizers known to man. Coffee grounds scattered all over the straw as you can is really good too.

This is why I love DG'S so much, thanks docgipe. I have been getting coffee grounds from Starbucks, one day they gave me 8 bags full. I'm on my way out to the garden to add more straw!!

Yep the DG twenty bucks is the best twenty I ever spent too. When I need help all I need do is to make a response that is questionable or to simply ask a question. In any event when responders keep a cool head all may consider the options by doing likewise.

I have learned much more than I have shared. Flowers and potted patio efforts were blessed with many observations and varied responses from which I have been able to do most new to me plantings right or reasonably correct the first time.

Docgipe,

Thanks for the information. As I have horses, and some old spoiled hay, I suppose I can use that hay in the compost pile, correct? Also, I recently acquired 5 Angora goats - They say that you can use their bedding directly on garden as mulch because there is no Uric Acid in their poo or pee and it won't burn plants.

I will say, their bedding never smells bad - I didn't expect that!

Never mind what others say....Fresh manure unless made into a very weak tea is better and will become even better after the composting process. When you make very weak tea you are relatively safe to drench to your hearts content. Very weak is a liquid in a clear glass when held up to the sun is just like very weak tea you would drink if it were your home kitchen teas. Your soil biology can handle weak tea without question. Anything stronger than that during the growing season would best be sent to the compost process.

The process is simple enough. Your soil biology has to convert what ever you give it before your plants can use it. If you over load the soil with fresh manures the whole community stops working more or less to convert what they read as to strong. They are at this point trying to correct our human error. Temporarilly at least the growing cycles of the plants can be slowed down. In the worst cases the tender roots can be burnt and most of us would not know what was going on. Likewise tender new leaves can be burnt or hit hard enough they just can not grow properly. Splashing with weak tea avoids all of the above and everyone is happy.

As to experimentation you could do half a row with some fresh manures and observe. Surely some plants will react differently than others. Pumpkins, melons, cukes and squash would likely not be hurt by light applications. Beyond this I run out of experience to advise you differently.

When we start building soil we advise fall placement of up to several inches of fresh manure,
PH adjustment if required to get to a PH of 6.5 - 7.2. Other than potato patches most plants do their best nearing a neutral PH. Then add some low number organic fertilizer and one of the following: Fertrell's Azomite, Ironite granular or Green Sand for trace minerals and as many leaves as you can imagine would be good. Two feet of freshly raked leaves is not to much. Any is great. Give the patch 6 ounces of Black Strap Molasses per 1000 sq. ft and till it all in. Then plant a cover crop of winter rye. Till this in the following spring and expect to see much improvement in your growing results. Stay completely away from man made chemical fertilizers to achieve better results faster.

I would like to add a word of caution about using hay as mulch. Unlike straw, hay is filled with weed seeds that in the long term can make the problem worse! If you are going to use hay you should first cover it with black plastic in a sunny location and let it heat up enough to kill the seeds.

One of the best mulches are leaves from the piles of most townships or city leaf piles. I have friends that keep several five gallon buckets in their cars. They stop and load up as they go by on other trips. Little by little the mulch they make gets three to four inches deep and hold down most weeds.

The weeds from old hay simply get pulled or walked on and then more hay is added. The many weeds of any mulch or soil base carry a lot of different good qualities when rotted in the process. Each draws from the soil different elements of the soil from shallow or deep rooted roots. To remove them from the process is working against nature's way of feeding itself.

Nice clean weed free beds do not enjoy the ballance nature intended. Our efforts to turn weeds over and rot them in place takes little or no more time than we expend to have our beds look like Better Homes and Gardens magazine perfection. Getting used to the idea and learning to do this takes no more time than reaching for the magic in a bag or bottle while at the same time healthier soil is the result.

Working a compost pile is time and work that is pleasurable but the same results can be achieved using any mulch layered weed control method. Any layered in place method turns the tilth, the structure, the moisture saving and worm inviting practices as close to nature's way as any method by any name.

Flowers need very little if any added fertilizers. It is in your smaller flower beds and patio pots where you can learn the processes the nice and easy way.

The big secret is a blend of organic additions including worms even in home made mediums for the flower pots. I have recently found coir and get results using it nearly as good as the latest advertised benefits of man made water holding crystals.

My beds are under permanent mulch. Our pot mediums are a mix of garden soil, compost peat or coir and organic fertilizer in very small amounts low numbers like 4-2-4. Every two or three weeks I water in a tea made from compost and a small amount of my soil. My plants look fine. They do not have the unhealthy tall dark green appearance of being over nitrated. Most hold their own flower heads tall, a little lighter green and just a tiney bit smaller than when fed man made chemicals. They can be made to look taller, bigger and greener with more compost and tea but that is what we really try to avoid. In the eyes of nature strength and the ability to fight of pathegons comes from growing healthier plants not show business award winning size and color.

There is a local store here that gives away compost tea every week. Do you have any recommendations for me?

The farms in my area use large spreaders to put manure on there fields in the spring. They plant there crops the same spring. No composting.

Gary

Gary............you need to read up on the organic principles. We who have back yard gardens and small places to take care of can do so much better soil building than any larger farmer. Of course any excuse will cover any practice you wish to follow. The back yard gardener has the opportunity to rise considerably above the practices of the present day farmer. The heathy soil builders now include some commercial growers of merit. They do not include the growers that grow thousands of acres.

i spent all morning hauling my compost pile out to another large flower bed--it is maybe 6-8 inches high --i used up the whole pile and have been able to add compost everywhere i had planned--now i will start over! before i put the compost down the dirt looks so hard and dry- i am greatful to all that i learned over the past year from this site!

Great Linda. I remember well when my grandmother first took my little hand and helped me stick some onions and then sprinkle a bit of black gold. Each trip to grandmother's house called for a trip to the garden about the time we arrived.
I loved to find and play with the worms at the edge of the active compost pile. The point is we all learn one day at a time. Then one day grandpop said, "boy lets do some magic to see if we can turn one of those worms into a fish". That was another begining that has lasted a lifetime.

I think I speak for all...."We are glad you are finding good functional advise and help".
If that were my work I would have to peek at it daily to see what all was going on.

You have just begun the art of soil building. It to me is one of life's pleasures that more folks should be enjoying. Set yourself a personal goal to help one other person get started and to enjoy it as you have.

thanks for the kind words and encouragement--you said to pass it on and my son came to visit and commented on how hard and terrible his clay soil is--guess who showed him the way?

Good for you! I think I enjoy building my soil as much as I do growing in it. I just found another source for horse manure. This guy rescued a couple of horses that were in pretty bad shape and the farm vet put the horses on a pelleted food instead of hay and such. As soon as he gets a trailer full of the "new gold" he'll deliver it to me-- can't wait.He's been hauling his manure about 20 miles away to a dump, and they charge him $35.00 every time, he's happy he found me too. I have so many gardner friends that he'll never have to pay those fees again. We all benefit from that!!

In my Northeastern Pennsylvania fall season I traditionly added two to four or five inches of raw manure, two feet or more of leaves, half a bag of Ironite, Fertrells Azomite or Greensand for the trace minerals. When this was all tilled in I used winter rye grass as a cover crop. I stayed on this or similar program for five years to arrive at a garden soil that easily was the best in our neighborhood. At this point I backed down to much less additives considering the future need to be minimal not maximum effort. You may be able to use a better cover crop in CA. Any legume would be better. We do not have time or weather to do legume cover crops.
............my PH adjustment was easily made with ground limestone. We shot for and achieved 6.5 - 7.2 PH. Soil tests are required to get an accurate reading on PH. Some may disagree but I feel the inexpensive garden test kits are just fine for most of our needs.

My sugar snap peas are about done-in thanks to the hot weather we've been having, what do you think of planting some fava beans now, and just turnng them under in the fall? docgipe, I'd love to see your garden, your soil must be heavenly!

Any legume is fine but you must use the Mycorrhize innoculent to maximise the nitrogen return. Your very best cover crop would be one of the vetches for maximum organic bulk and return of nitrogen. Must also have an innoculent. The places that sell the seed usually have the Mycorrhize to go with the seed.

If you really want the good soil building program you need to put in more than your plants are taking out. I do not know your area growing patterns but when the cover crop gets dense and about eight to ten inches deep it needs to be turned under and maybe replanted if the time permits. Nothing wrong with weed wacking it first and then till it in.

Yes my lovely soil has an organic content by test above fifteen percent. I have worked on it for many years. When growing in the food patches I mulch deeply as the plants get large enough to be above the mulch. I use straw, hay, leaves, grass, newspapers, cardboard, shreaded paper or whatever else I can get.

Beth, I would use whatever you can get for your garden. I wouldn't use any carpet though. You can buy landscaping fabric and mulch ontop of it. I have done this myself in beds with invasive weeds.