Another question for those that grow Cimicifuga

I posted recently about moving Cimicifuga....I went ahead and moved my three Brunettes earlier this Spring while the weather was cool (they were just planted last year, so not well established or anything).

The new spot sits in shade and dappled shade all day until about three pm, at which time the sun finds a hole in the tree cover and then it gets direct sun for the rest of the day. Because I can't remember a thing about earth science from school, I don't know if the sun is going to increase or decrease as the season goes on. Is it now getting too much sun? I read such conflicting info online about this plant, so I'd really like to know in what light conditions you guys grow yours and how it does. I noticed over the last day or two (warm ones), that the color is getting very green, and I'm concerned when looking at the foliage at the bottom because it's looking an unhealthy shade of green to me for this plant. I live in Maine, on the coast, and our summers are generally quite cool, though of course we get hot days now and then...I thought this would be an ok spot for it, but now I'm wondering....I don't mind green, but I don't want sickly brown, either. I have been keeping it watered, and the soil is ammended. Do you think it will eventually adapt, or have I totally goofed here? Here is a pic- there are three around the big, empty pot. I was hoping to put something in the pot to cast some shade on the cimicifuga, but I can't come up with anything that would be tall enough to do the job, and quickly. Help!

Here is a close up of the lower foliage that has me scared

Noreaster --

No doubt I know the feeling. Putting all kinds of energy into getting one plant to grow, it can be alarming when it shows signs of possible distress. I spent all last summer trying to get native fringed gentians. Plant by plant they germinated, thrilled me, and died bit by bit. One plant I even moved with me across the state, only to have it die over the winter. Figure it this way -- you have a beautiful, *really* beautiful shade garden, that will abide anyhow. Try whatever you think might work best. Don't be afraid to move them again. One never knows. Report back on what happens. Black (blue?) cohosh is such a bold purple inspiration when it comes up in the wild hillsides early spring. I'd love to know how to grow it.
Tim

Noreaster, not to worry, even the 'Brunettes' that are established plants in our gardens occasionally have green or yellowing foliage at the base of the plants. As long as you keep them watered through their adjustment period they should be fine. Will be interested in knowing how the new spot works for them. After watching some for years in deep shade that just never took on the deep black color, I planted a few in a spot last year similar to your location - dappled light and late afternoon sun. I did notice some scorching of the foliage late in the season but then we experienced serious drought conditions last summer and it was tough to keep up with watering! I'm thinking your "afternoon sun" is a lot cooler than mine and they should do just fine in their new location. FYI, some of those lovely Ghost Ferns you have would make nice companions in the background if you can find a spot close with a little more shade :)

How old are yours noreaster? they look great to me!! I want to move mine but they are only in their second year and came from a co-op so are nowhere near established although they are looking GREAT compared to last year. I had thought they were Brunette but the leaves are green - not burgandy.

How long does cimicifuga take to mature? I planted them in pretty much full shade wiuth dappled sunlight but they are too close to the front of my border for when (not IF!!! :)) they mature to full potential.

This message was edited May 28, 2008 9:30 AM

Your shade garden is beautiful and the cimicifugas look healthy! Just keep them sufficiently watered and they should do fine. One of my two gets about 5-6 hours of sun at the height of summer (which is coming up on June 21 or so--isn't the summer solstice the peak of daylight hours?) and tolerates it well.

Ok, thanks guys, you've made me feel a little better about it. I'm just not used to any direct sun at all, and it's do or die for these Brunettes, because I have nowhere to move them to since I already moved a big hosta into their former spot. This bed is a portion of a larger one that used to be total shade. The reason I have the afternoon sun now hitting this one spot is that I finally cut down an ugly assortment of oak suckers that surrounded an old stump. The big hypertufa container is now masking the stump. Ideally, I'd like to put a small ornamental tree there like a Japanese Maple, but I'm not sure if that would work. I think the appearance of the bed is greatly improved by removing the old "sucker tree", but I sort of miss the shade it provided for the plants that were behind it. Most of the plants are still shaded quite a bit by the canopy of trees that sit behind them...it's just the stuff in the very front that is getting that later sun. What I think I might do, unless you think this is a bad idea, is switch places with the hosta Liberty that I currently have sitting behind the three Brunettes. So I'd put that where that furthest forward Brunette is and then move that back to where Liberty was. What I don't know is if that hosta will do ok there, either, though All mine are in dappled shade or maybe some morning sun. Except the one you can see on the far right of my first pic, Tokudama Flovocircinalis...that is actually looking ok in the sun. I can't stand crispy looking plants. Especially in a small garden like mine where I'd always be looking right at them. Here is a few from the side. Please let me know if you think I should not swap Liberty with the first Brunette (which happens to be the one with the most yellow leaves at the bottom)

This is the pic from last year which shows the "sucker tree" that I removed, which radically changed the lighting in there.

Peg, I've read that they take years to mature and that they don't want to be moved once established...so I'm really trying to get these into their permanent homes this time. Mine were just planted last year, and they seem to be growing well. They even bloomed last year. In another part of my yard, I have Atropurpurea and Hillside Black Beauty, and the Atro took off like a rocket, while HBB has just sat there for the last two seasons, not getting bigger than 18" high. I don't care for that one at all because I lack patience.

I've read that they need some sun for their darkest color, and I've read just the opposite...frustrating to not know which is it.

How large were yours when you got them? I am htinking maybe I need to buy some more that are bigger than liner size so I have a chance to see them bloom in this lifetime!!

Maybe so, for this perennial. Mine were just the typical nursery container size (gallon?). I did buy them because they looked particulary nice and full sitting there at the nursery. I really do love them, and the scent is awesome. One of the reasons I moved them to where I did is so that I would pass by them and be able to enjoy the fragrance. I just wouldn't buy Hillside Black Beauty. Everything else in that bed grows like crazy- hosta, ferns, etc, but not HBB.

Thanks for the tip. Wonder if there's a good mail order nursery that sells them. Kids are out of school so my days for browsing locally are gone!

I'd leave Liberty right where it is - it's perfect! And lo and behold, what an eye for combinations - I see you've already got 'Ghost' planted with your Brunettes :) It's outstanding what you've accomplished in such a short time - I've been gardening for more years than I chose to admit and I'm just NOW getting the hang of the right "combinations". I've got Liberty waiting for a spot in the gardens and I might just have to copy your combo!

Interesting what you've found with Hillside Black Beauty. Years ago we bought Black Negligee, I love the name, but like HBB has never performed as well as Atro or Brunette. Another one I love is 'James Compton' - probably the blackest and glossiest foliage of all of them but again, definitely not as vigorous. Planted him beside some Brunettes last year - the Brunettes are already up to 12" and poor James is about 4" and looks like he won't even make it :(

Thanks, rcn, I had ghost ferns with my other cimicifuga- the atropurpurea and HBB over on the other side of my yard. I actually bought the HBBs by mistake, thinking they were Atros, but I went ahead and grouped them together anyway, thinking they'd all eventually look pretty much the same- nope! lol. Oh well, it doesn't look too odd. I wish I had room for more cimicifuga, or whatever they are calling it now, but I'm out of room :( "Pink Spike" is another one I'd like to have.

Ok, I will leave Liberty where it's at and just see how that up front Brunette adapts. Here is the pic of the other cimicifuga in my garden from the other day. If you look really hard, you can find HBB...Atropurpurea is to the right of that, and then the second HBB is further forward. I also really like the cimicifuga and ghost ferns combined with Asarum foliage...and hosta, of course!

rcn, I'm eagerly awaiting to see what container combos you've come up with this year!

The cimicifuga in my garden receives mostly shade until the latter part of the day too. At the peak of late summer heat I give it extra water. It holds up well and maintains the dark color (it may be 'James Compton')--by accident I planted 'Queen Josephine' quite close to it, and they've turned out to be great neighbors. QJ's shiny foliage w/ cream margin really pop against the dark purple foliage and when the brunnera on the other side is blooming the blue only adds to the combo.

It took a good 2yrs for the cimicifuga to really settle in and increase--worth the wait!

OK - I am officially jealous!

Noreaster, unfortunately I haven't done much with my containers this year :( Just about the time my brain started clicking with ideas and projects for the garden, our 9 month old pup became seriously ill and required 24/7 care. Hence, my gardening endeavors have taken a back seat this spring :( Good news is that she survived and although it will be 2-3 months before she's back to "normal", I am slowly making my way into the gardens and have picked up a few plants for my containers. If I ever get some nice combos, I'll be sure to post them!

rcn, so sorry to hear about your puppy. You feel extra bad because you can't explain to them what's doing on. Glad to hear she's on the road to recovery though.

I'm really glad your pup is doing ok now, rcn. My dogs mean the world to me, so I know how that goes. I hope that she makes a full and speedy recovery.