My mom just told me she bought a fertilizer that you only use once and you are done for the summer. Do any of you use such fertilzer or do you prefer to use the liquid or granuales? Just curious. I already did some fertilizer with rose and flower fertilizer....I am not even sure how often to fertilize.....
What do you use and why?
About perennial fertilizer
Yes, there are time-release fertilizers that feed over a number of months. Osmocote, etc. Different ones work in different ways. Some will not work until it warms up. Others will release based on watering.
I am not really big on fertilizers in general. I fertilize roses with Mill's Mix (organic) and some other flowering plants with the same. Veggies get fertilized with organic. Annuals get the time-release and then liquid every 2-3 weeks.
Ok...here's a problem I personally now have with anything to do with fertilizers, organic, synthetic, or org-synth...why do we need them?
I can totally understand fertilizers for container gardening/pot culture/trough gardens, and I can totally understand for veggie gardening, due to the nature of the plants growth, seed-seedling-growth-fruit...all in one season...that I get.
Victor, I told ya this MG class was gonna drive me nuts.
My personal conundrum now is simply this: Why do we need/feel the need to fertilize? If we are mulching or composting, and watering, in theory we really don't need anything else, right? Please keep in mind that I always use a fish immulsion/sea weed-kelp based fertilizer for the beds, veggies included, and for containers I use time released jobbers like Osmocot/Dynamite.
The reason, one of, that I now have this problem is simply this: It is scientifically impossible for anyone to "feed" their plants. Plants make their own food through photosynthesis. Fertilizers will help "fix" certain chemicals/nutrients, and help with the pH, so plants can uptake some nutrients, but do we really need to fertilize?
I have been bouncing this all over the place in my noggin, and have been researching the living heck out of it.
Dawn-I didn't mean to hijack this thread, nor did I mean to sound like I am arguing to "not" use fertilizers, it's something I'm dealing with personally, and would like other NE forum members opinions.
I might have to start a new thread...lol.
We don't "feed our plants". We feed the soil provides food for the roots. Then the chemistry of what they can take up comes in as I fade out. I rely 95% on compost and mainly roses get special attention but I don't use the liquid fertilizers on any kind of a regular basis and mostly for containers.
Well that's exactly why I said I'm not big on them in general. You should test your soil and tell them if it's for flowers, veggies or lawn. The analysis will tell whether you need to add anything. I don't fertilize mot things. I rarely fertilize perennials - sometimes clematis when I think about it. But I don't see much difference when I do. If you have sandy soil, it's more important to do so.
Plants do take up the nutrients from the soil, even though they make their own carbohydrates through photosynthesis. Annuals and veggies just don't have time to absorb from the soil so they are helped by it.
What it comes down to is - Do you want to fertilize them or not? It all comes down to growth and blooms.
Do you want concentrated frozen orange juice or natural OJ? Do you want real butter or margerain (sp).
Plants are some what like humans. The 4 elements to survive.
Light, Air, Water, Food
Overuse of fertilizer and water are very common mistakes. Always go easy.
The only fertilizer I use is Osmocote. I was told about it a couple of years ago and love it.
Ralph Snodsmith always says that "only in America" if a little food is called for we give them double the amount.
My feeling is too many of us are pushing plants beyond the limit and then wondering why they die before their time or why they're so stressed.
We turn them into junkies.
Victor-That's exactly what I was referring to. And Pirl-composting is the best thing since sliced bread and padded toilet seats.
The Garden Hotline at the extension office...omg...the questions...and, what people do prior to ever asking. "I have this plant, it looked sick, so I FED it some fertilzer." I'm like, noooooooooooooooo(in my head, not on the phone). First thing I ask, "Have you had your soil tested?" so far, out of almost 30 calls, 1 person had. No one else had. That would almost lead to my next question, how many of us actually get/have had our soils tested? I haven't...I just sent in the kits for the beds about a week ago. I should be getting the results back within the next few weeks. It's peak season for the soil tests at Penn State, so I know to look forward to it when I do get it back.
My main reason to do multiple tests, is several fold. One bed, double dug. One bed was "lasagna gardened." And, the other bed was dirt thrown on top of grass, and planted. I want to see the results of which method is "better."
How much does your extension agency charge for the soil test kits? Ours are $9 each.
Victor and Arlene, I feel almost identical to what you both stated. We do tend to "push" plants, and we do make them "rely" on us way to much in regard to fertilizing, or even over fertilizing.
I have 3 hours of the Garden Help Line tomorrow, and 3 more on Friday. So far, it's all been about fertilizers, and tent caterpillars. I can't wait for the Wooly Adeldige...lol.
People love to feed and water a stressed plant. Generally they do that first and then call in to find out why the plant looks worse than before.
By the time you finish with the calls, Thom, you could start a new thread about the biggest mistakes people make with gardens. Container gardening seems to present many challenges to people. So many don't put enough plants in the pots and it looks awful. Better to buy more plants and put the extras elsewhere than have skimpy looking containers. Tomatoes are planted much too close together, too.
I use different fertilizers for different purposes. for bonsai which are obviously container bound I use 2 different types, one for spring & one for winter, they are in an environment which I have total control over, its like asking why feed fish in a fish tank.
For the yard/ garden, I use a general fertilizer for the plants two or three times a growing season and diligently follow a fertilizing regimen for the lawn. Sandy soil drains very quickly... it retains nothing. I don't mulch, I use the grass to hold the moisture and I don't compost - I'm not keeping a barrel of rotting anything in my yard!
I don't use time-release, I use fish/ seaweed based and use gen purpose sparingly (I dilute to 50% of recommended strength), because I'm very wary of excessive mineral/ salt buildup. ☺
Aw, come on, WC! Good compost smells better than any Chanel No. 5!!!
Come on out and take a whiff.
No thanks... I moved out of the city! ☺
You think I'm kidding but I'm not. We have six bins and they don't stink or we wouldn't have them.
Sure, containers are a different story. And sandy soil does require fertilizer, as I said earlier. What do you mean the grass retains the moisture, WC? You mean grass clippings in the beds??I fertilize the lawn only in the fall - with Milorganite. I'm not really into the lawn. No herbicides, pesticides, etc. Of course I have weeds! Love the clover though. Hate the plantains.
Thanks for all the great info and ideas and opinions...it really makes you think.....
I think I may change some of my fertilizing practices...LOL
I don't keep grass clippings in the bed Victor... I bag them and take them to the dump.☺
Then you referring to the grass preventing runoff?? You said it holds the moisture - holds it for what?
Sod Victor, when I plant a tree or a bush I cut out the piece of grass around the hole for the bush and place it aside, I believe they call it 'sod' in that snodgrass guy's radio program... it easily lifts out and you can cut a slit down the middle of the "grass cap", the hole is dug out and the bush/ tree is put in then filled up to the level just below the root system of the grass. the 'grass cap' is replaced - voila! no need for mulch, the grass cap holds whatever moisture in place. Mulching is a complete waste of time for me. ☺
I'm gonna ask, just so I'm clear. Someone recommended to cut a radius, lift out the grass within the radius, plant where the circle of grass was, then replant the grass around the trunk/base of the shrub?
How do trees or shrubs survive that? The first couple of years for almost any tree or shrub is establishing a shallow root system and root flare, in which anything else growing above it is going to compete with the tree/shrub for nutrients. I've never heard of that. That just sounds counter intuitive.
Water-Especially if you have sandy soil, that you stated above, the nutrients are going to leach much faster, but the grass is going to utilize a large percentage of the nutrients before the roots to the shrubs or trees are/will.
I totally understand the fertilizing of containers, that isn't what I was calling into question. It makes complete and total sense to have to fertilize containers, out of necessity. My personal issue is with the seemingly won-ton use of fertilizer for established beds, WITHOUT a soil test being done. It's something I'm personally being a witness to on the garden helpline at the county extension office.
- Just went out and took these pics... a portion of my front lawn. with a couple of year-old bushes, they are un-mulched The lawn keeps whatever moisture in the ground around them. Sandy soil dries out too quickly to attempt gardening without some type of "cap" without the lawn I would simply have a 'beach' without a surf. Squirrels and voles see a mulched rose for example as an opportunity to burrow and bury. They leave the ground around a rose/ bush exposed to the searing sun and creates an escape for moisture. I find the pesky little critters less attracted to shrubs I plant if I don't mulch, at the same time using the grass to keep the moisture in. ☺
Very interesting. Guess you have to be extra careful when mowing / trimming.
I honestly dont know what theoretical books have to say... but I have 3 newly planted rose bushes in my backyard a scotch broom which is about to flower in about 3 days and an apple tree which also just flowered which I just planted a month ago using the same technique. They are as happy as can be. ☺! A bradford pear tree I planted 3 years ago as a two foot tree is now taller than me and very strong, so is a sand cherry I also planted which flowered imediately and has grown about 3" in the last month. - maybe you should read another book? ☺
Yes you do have to be extra careful in fact I mow close to the shrubs but use grass shears to trim around the shrubs. I never use the trimmer on the trees to damage the bark. I take about an hour to mow and trim the front yard, I have it down to a "routine". It's easy when it's your property, you love what you do, and it's an image of pride which you project in your community. It's just not the same when you hire someone else to do it. ☺
I am extremely lazy about fertilizer. I have a bag of Espoma's plant tone and I just never get around to using it. Part of it is that I went to art school and can't figure out the math involved to calculate the footage in my irregularly shaped beds so that I can follow the "per foot" directions on the bag....so, I just tend to not do anything, lol. Also, I am very lazy about pulling mulch away to apply the stuff, which you are supposed to do, right? Who has time to do that???
About compost, how much do you typically put down and when do you do it? I usually mix some in when I plant stuff, but I don't really understand how/when to top dress with it. Just sprinkle it on top of the mulch?
I am lazy too and often forget - especially with bulbs. Yes, you should pull mulch away from plants. Bad news if it's close.
I mean, pull back the mulch so that the fertilizer, if you are going to use it, can soak into the soil.
How far away from the centers of your plants do you typically keep the mulch? That's another thing I don't get. How can you put several inches of mulch around a small hosta, for example, when the leaves are so close to the ground when they emerge from the crown. Doesn't seem possible.
A few inches - 2-3 I usually do. You can do it with small plants too. I just did it today after my mower guys mulched a bed for me and a) buried plants and b) mulched right up to the trunks of the plants they didn't bury.
I'm approaching forty and plus years working the same beds, lawn and garden. I use Endo Mycorrhiza and permanent once ground wood as a rather heavy mulch. I rarely use any fertilizer on any flower beds with the exception where I have fruits intermixed with my flower beds. In that instance I use a bit of organic Fertrell's organnic 4-2-4...and sometimes a bit of compost. Every organic advisement I read calls for little or no added fertilizer for flower beds of any type. Once in a blue moon I do replace a planting for what ever reason. Not all last for ever.
When my garden was a traditional garden I followed the same practices. Now that I am in the insane hobby of trying to make a pumpkin grow to fifteen hundred pounds or more I am babby sitting with numerous soil conditioners and organic soil and foliar feeding elements. I do not do much traditional gardening for foods other than a little around the edges for the cook to play with.
My lovely grass (my terms) has never had much of anything save an occasional attack on a broad leaf weed that is native. The basic program is to cut at three to four inches and let the cuttings fall where they will. I spot treat the dandilions as I mow when I see them.
In my numerous pots.....and they are numerous I use my good garden soil, compost and coir as a growing medium. I use no chemicals just the various teas I make from compost, earth worm casts and other manure based teas. I make aerobic teas and lots of it that gets put on darn near everything inside the house as well as the outdoor pots and beds.
So my opinion based on a lifetime of gardening is that one does not need harsh chemical fertilizer if good organic management can be carried out. One way or another I always revert to manures, remineralization and a cover crop on any open soil. Sometimes the cover crop is a real food crop. Over the late fall and winter the cover crop is winter rye grass. That is the way my grandfather farmed and my father gardened. I never saw a chemical fertilizer until I started reading garden books and magazines that seemingly are written by friends of the big chemical companies.
I have a "black bin" composting box.
We started last July.
Throw in leaves,dead plants + potting soil, kitchen scraps.
Why do we have an ODER?
Great advice, Dwayne.
There's something wrong.
Composting isn't just throwing in things and expecting miracle results. It's a science. It's layers of green (as in cut grass), brown (as in leaves from fall), along with household items such as coffee grounds, tea bags, banana skins, grapefruit/lemon/lime rinds, apple cores, carrot and potato scrapings, a little soil (not much), some fireplace ashes (but not a lot), wood shavings, etc.
We've never had a bin, such as you have, but my neighbor does have one and she follows the brown/green/household rule and hers does not smell.
Another neighbor throws in entire plants, seldom puts in anything from the house, never chips anything and this is how hers looks. She doesn't use it and her husband always says he has no idea why they have it.
I have heard you say you have several piles and no oder.
I'll save this info and bare down hard on the houshold to comply.I can see the benefits from the last summers compost that was spread on certain places in March. Richer graans and stridant plantlife.
We had so little cpost I had to choose wisely.
Roses got some and so did areas where I wanted Poppies and other rich feeding perens.
Even got cpost from my organig farm girlfriend. Think I 'll make another trip there.
Nature has no order and absolutely no monocultural practices. She puts it on the ground and it blows around until it gets stuck somewhere to collect moisture and rot. If it is to big to blow around she brings material she can move and piles it up against the larger down falls so that in time both can rot. This system has been working just fine since time began. Within reason it will work in your flower beds and gardens. You may not like the downed tree in the middle of your yard but it would be just fine as far as it is concerned. Tell the neighbors it's your green thing. If they get to nosey tell 'em where to go and not to leave the door swat them in the butt as they leave.
Someone has in a serious mood said, "if you read more than one gardening book or magazine you are already in trouble and confused".
docgip: intresting you feel that way.
I attended a seminar in conjunction with local Gardenscape this spring.
Lecturer from Cornell said don't rake your leaves in fall and spring cleaning should just be turned over in the beds.
I like that as an idea.
i use a timed release fert. similar to osmocote. i use it on everything i have. feed it once in the spring when we still have alot of rain and dont have to do to much the rest of the year except water.. to me there is a huge difference when i fertilize. about every 6 weeks during the high growing season i use a liquid fert. with a syphon and give the plants a nice boost. with the timed release on there it gives the resting plants during the winter a tiny bit of whats left and really seems to make things winter over better for me. i have lots of sand and hardpan where i am so everythng is planted in bark mulch with native soil (which is nothing to speak of where im located) so i think to each their own with whatever they think will work for their areas.