Help.......Compost pile won't heat up

Last week I started a new compost pile. The pile is fenced on 3 sides to allow good air circulation. First I layed down a layer of paper. I then shoveled a layer of horse manure, some fresh, some not. I then put down a layer of hey (dried, and brown,......... purchased a bale at the feed store)............Then a layer of manure, and then a layer of hey...........the pile is 4 feet, by 4 feet, by 3 feet high........I then watered it down ...........waited a few days..........checked the temp, and it seems cold.......I have done this before, but used horse manure, and dry leaves.............I had no problem w/ heating up..........Is hey not a brown???........I read that it was..........Please give me some tips on how to heat it up.........Thanks in advance.

hornstrider, it may take a few days.

It might be a little dry. If its still not hot right now, you might try dowsing it with water. Sometimes my piles need a little kick start with water.

We just cleaned out the chicken coop, it didn't quite fill our 4 x 4 bin, it was very dry for a day or two so I soaked it with water and the next day it was steaming hot.

Aside from water and a good damp pile you could help it with a cup full of black strap molasses. This is a good booster. Water it in so that it can filter down through the pile. It can be purchased at most places where they mix cattle feed. You will need to take your own jug. Cost estimated at about five dollars a gallon. Buy a gallon and expect immediate day or two reaction to the presense of the molasses. You pile sounds OK to me. Your hay dry is more brown than green although there is still some green value in hay. Your ratio of manures seems OK. Warmer weather helps too. I'm in the Northeast. My pile is not new but it has started to warm up to about eighty degrees in the center of the pile. My mix is similar to yours but was built up last fall. I do little turning so slow is a fact I live with. If your garden soil is relatively chemical free it too is a good booster. Many of the old time coaches advise using some soil in the piles. I still do that feeling that it is good advise.

Hornstider, depending on what you got, your hay *shouldn't* be a brown. Straw is a lot closer to a brown. As an experiment, at least, I'd shred up some newspaper or some other "brown" or higher carbon material and see if it helps.

Here's some ratios that I got from the web:

Nitrogen

C/N Ratio
Alfalfa hay 12:1
Grass clippings 19:1
Table scraps 20:1
Timothy hay 25:1
Young weeds 30:1


MATERIALS HIGH IN CARBON Ingredient

C/N Ratio
Fruit waste 35:1
Leaves 40-80:1
Paper 170:1
Pine needles 500:1
Straw 80:1


Hope this helps!

Those are good numbers above....Now the rule of thumb. If a pile does not heat add greens or nitrogen bearing elements. If it smells add browns or carbon bearing elements.

A pile does not have to heat to any specific degree to rot. The hotter the faster it will rot in the presence of moisture. The cooler the slower. It will rot some even if it is frozen. Evidence is the fact that ice cream can spoil in your freezer in time. That same ice cream can spoil and start to rot in a day or two of eighty degree weather at your sink top or in you garbage can.

There is no rocket science in a compost pile. Basically mix it up and give time, oxygen and water. Speed it up or slow it down with the rule of thumb.

Just one note to add to Doc's excellent info - one thing that will slow you down a little bit with things like hay & straw - unless you're chopping it up and/or making sure it's wet, it will take longer to break down than the easily crumbled stuff like your leaves. And even they benefit from a good chopping......

(Can you tell what's going wrong in *my* pile today???)

Thanks everyone for your imput............I actually watered it down pretty good to begin with.........and a few days later we had 1" of good rain.............checked temp a day or so later........still cold..........I think I will try some black strap molasses....if nothng else it might discourage the fire ants.....Once again thank you all.......

http://www.klickitatcounty.org/solidwaste/fileshtml/organics/compostCalc.htm

This is a good link for understanding carbon to nitrogen ratio.

I agree, most sources I've seen classify hay as green and straw as brown. You might need a little more carbon.

Also, do you moisten the pile as you build it? It will give you much better distribution of moisture than just watering the top. In a pile that size, wetting the top might only get water to the top of the pile. As I build it, I moisten mine with a sprinkling can.

Karen

What od you suppose coffee grounds are classified as? They seem like they would be a brown, but its my understanding that they are rich in nitrogen.

Somebody said in one of the other thread, Cheeto, but I'm having a senior moment, just don't remember at this point........LOL
The worms don't care! LOL Coffee and newspaper and they are all happy little campers.

Coffee grounds = a green, or N source, and a good one.

Karen

Lots of good information on this thread and I'm coming in a bit late but if you still want to heat up the pile what works everytime for me is coffee grounds - as much as I can carry from Starbucks - and grass clippings, one large black garbage bag-full. Turn this in, wetting as you go. I then top-dress the pile with a layer of straw.

This will bring my compost pile up to 140 degrees in about 2 days. Yesterday it was 150. When I don't have grass clippings, I use fresh llama pellets from my local llama farm.

HTH.
Mary

The llama beans are great manure. I have been working with it for three years and can not find any significant reason not to use it in any form from fresh to aged.

I find it really good in a manure tea aged a month or longer. After it is composted it supports all the goodness of aerobic tea that comes from any other manure or combinatnions of composted manures. All really finished compost has worm casts as well.

I try to mix up all the components of my compost. A little of this and a little of that. This applies to manures, plant material and sources of trace minerals.

A picture of my cold pile.............I have help on the way..........my neighbor is bringing me bags of grass clippings, and leaves to add to the pile..............Question............Do I turn the pile when I add the grass clippings?? Thanks!!

You can if you are ambitious but I just layer Carbon stuff 3 times thicker than Green stuff. Then it cooks with out turning. Note I have lots of pine needle so Oxygen is readily available deep into the pile.

hornstrider,

You still need to build up your pile.

LOL - hornstrider, you need more stuff to get that to heat up - you could take all you have and make a nice little stack in the middle, then it might have a better chance!

The latest and most common minimum compost pile size suggestions in various sources are..........4' X 4' X 4'. You have a good start and a basic understanding. Heave ho me laddie.

I'll have to post a picture.

What I never understand about compost piles is that people often tell me that you have to have worms in it. My compost pile gets so hot that the worms would cook. What am I missing here?

They lied to you.

Makes perfect sense. It is even published to add worms in a book those of us in the southwest read called Extreme Gardening. Even as a noob gardener I had reservations about this bit of advise. Maybe he has worms from Dune? Not sure how many of you read that book...

Cheeto..............likely you are into information that is half right at it's best. As the pile changes its interrnal heat from cold to hot and eventually back to cold there are periods that specific worms enter and leave the pile as it heats up. the same thing happens as the pile cools off. Different worms work at different temperatures and on different materials in the pile.

No one needs to guess at this and buy worms to make it better. When you build the pile and the proper processes are in play your native worms will come and do their job within the conditions they like to work in. The same decisions are made by the worms when you add compost to the garden soil.

If there is no work left for worms to be doing there would be no reason for them to hang around. They sure will not be present in temperatures in the higher ranges. In winter if you freeze up your worms will be down under as deep as they need to go to stay comfortable.

It is unlikely you will ever see these conditions but you pile and your worms will manage themselves. If the conditions are right and they are needed they will come.

My compost is too hot for them, too, in the summer. In the winter, I just let it sit and cold compost. In spring, it generally has worms after months of cold composting.

I know some people collect worms in their gardens and throw them into their compost. I don't think they're doing those worms any favor. I figure when conditions are favorable the worms are free to move in if they choose to.

Karen

Sorry, docgipe, we cross-posted and I sort of echoed what you said.

Another interesting observation about worms in my garden. In spring, as the soil warms and it is moist, it is crawling with worms. In summer my garden is hot and dry, and worms are few and far between. When garden soil is too hot and dry for them, they go deep, too.

They do leave behind networks of huge tunnels in all my beds. Very interesting to see.

Karen

Hot composting drives the worms into the surrounding areas and makes all of Gods creation live and succeed. Heat = Speed and speed is good don't worry about those with choices.

O.K Fellow composters...........my good neighbor brought me 6 large trash bags full of lush green grass clippings w/ a few leaves mixed in..........(bags were hot to the touch)............I layered the grass clippings w/ the hay, and watered down between layers........I will check temp tonight, and give you good folks an update........I appriciate all of your imput........That compost stack should be smokin' when I get home tonight.....

Sure hope so, good luck!

aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh...........the pile is now smokin'.........Thanks all!!

My good friend from Texas has got one smoking. Great. Now take a minute and jump off composting to tell us what happened to all the horney toads that you all used to have. I'm told they are nearly all gone.

Good job!

docgipe...............two words describe the dissappearance of the famed horny toad.......................FIRE ANTS...........

Gone by the pressures of nature............Fire Ants. To bad. I got one from a Texan Boy Scout at Valley Forge Jamboree. I kept it alive through college and our early married life. Then it finally died. That was about 1960.