Veggies by value

I just started thinking about my veggie gardening efforts and began to wonder: Will my time, soil, fertilizer, water, etc. would common veggies cost several times what they'd cost at the grocery. Case in point: potatoes. Or corn. In summer, it is (or was, what with food prices shooting up) pretty easy to find fresh sweet corn for .25 an ear, sometimes less.

On the other hand, artichokes are usually $2 each. Ow! Green beans are pricey, too. And okra, if you can even find it.

So, if you were going to plant veggies based on the retail value and the return on your dollar, what would you plant?

Leeks --- no matter what time of the year they are expensive here
Kohlrabi (giant white) --- can only get the small ones here and most of the time they are expensive and wooden
Cornsalad --- the odd time I can find them in a specialty veggie store they are over priced

For me it is not so much the price, but the taste.
At the local farmers market the fresh veggies are still very pricey and if you go and buy cheaper (at grocery store) a lot of the veggies are bland, tasteless masses that are picked way before they reach their prime.

I am interested to see what others think of this.

Thea :)

I'll grow my own tomatoes and peppers before doing anything else. I'll pay way more for nice ones at a farm stand too. I refuse to buy them at any price in the supermarket...I'll do without first.

Even if you buy the most expensive seed you can find, yes it pays, more than ever this year. Walmart has seed packets for $.10. If you grow the seeds of just one pack of squash with good care, you will fill a pick up truck, probably two.

Corn takes a lot of space for the return. It belongs in the Treat catagory and like all other treats, can you afford it. Spacewise I mean.

I'd say it is a balance of what you like and what you have the space for. The $ savings is there. If you have to buy a tiller it will pay over its' lifetime. If you have to purchase soil, it can be amended and reused next year. I always gardened for the satisfaction but now it is all about green and $ and fresh.

Melody, I agree about the tomatoes and peppers; I can't resist growing them, although supermarket peppers are usually pretty good.

Thea, what is "cornsalad?" Never heard of it. I love leeks and have tried growing them with no success. I'll be trying again this fall.

The answer for me is: everything that will grow here. I believe that my organic vegetables have more nutrition in them than the vegetables found in the supermarket as a result of growing in enlivened soil. And, they have far superior taste as Thea1962 states. Yes, I have to pay for the water but ... Time? I have to do something with it, why not grow veggies. Soil? I make my own from the dirt in my yard by adding homemade compost. Fertilizer? I barter with Mary for llama yamma. I do buy a few things such as liquid kelp and dry molasses. Fringe benefits: exercise, satisfaction, learning, and DINNER.

Twiggybuds, I think the idea of just having to walk less than 30' with an absolutely fresh vegetable is the most alluring thing about growing them. Plus, it's pesticide-free. But I think maybe I could garden smarter if I grew things I'd normally not buy because of the retail price. Thea's kohlrabi is a good example. I never buy it and might be depriving myself of a good-tasting, good-for-you veggie. But if I grew it, different story. Would probably be much cheaper.

Hey, rtl*, I need to learn more about gardening your way. If I'd never moved to the city, I'd know - and be doing - all that. My mom could grow anything she stuck in the ground - in rural MS. I've only recently decided to be serious about veggie gardening and I'm making every effort to be resource-wise and use organic methods.

I think we get stuck eating a slim choice of veggies and fruits just because there's not a wider variety in the grocery store. And if there is, it floated, flew or rolled for hundreds or thousands of miles to get here. No wonder it's expensive!

When it comes to a value crop, I think of sugar snap peas, snow peas, green beans, asparagus, and the stuff that costs an arm and a leg - and still might not taste all that good.

Is cornsalad the same as mache?

I think I will enjoy feeling some independence/self reliance this year. I have no doubt I'll find other things to spend the $ savings on.

I want to know what I'm eating and I don't want imported produce at any price.

Anything that doesn't come in on a truck is helping the fuel crunch.

Maybe it is a good idea to grow extra to gift the less fortunate in our areas. Lots elderly or handicapped folks can't get to the store even if they have the $.

Barter is a great idea.

I never liked mowing grass so it may as well be flowers or food.

Sounds like Victory Garden time, folks!!! Last year I was lucky to get a couple of dinners out of the soil, so I guess I can't say it was worth it as far as my pocketbook goes, especially if you factor in my time. But spiritually? Nutritionally? Oh, YEAH BABY!!!! This year is looking even better, and next year... watch out! I'm not thinking I'll be self-sufficient on my quarter acre, but who knows?

Somewhere many years ago I read an article about how many nutrients are lost by the hour for all the various veggies. So, if you buy the so-called "fresh" veggies, even at a farmer's market, how fresh do you think they really are? And how much nutrition is left in them? But pick those same veggies fresh from your own garden and now you have some really high nutrition, good tasting veggies. Can't beat that with a stick. Plus, as already pointed out, you get all that free exercise--no going to the gym for it AND you save the gas it would take to drive to the gym and the grocery store.

Given everything I had to do last year to keep the ground squirrels out of my tomatoes, they certainly weren't cost-efficient. Hoping to do better with lots of things this year, though! (And I know what not to try to get rid of the g.s.'s again when they come back....)

Red peppers are on my list of things for value. Also had great luck with sugar snap peas. Both very expensive if you get them at the regular supermarket. My farmer's market usually has them (peas seasonally) for somewhat more reasonable prices, but nothin' beats the fun of going outside and grabbing a quick snack!

Plus, I find it deeply satisfying to know that my kids will grow up with an appreciation for good tasting vegetables, and what it takes to grow them. Given all the stories I read about young people who haven't the foggiest notion that carrots grow under the dirt, this is not something to be taken for granted anymore!

The idea of self-sufficiency is way high on my list but I'm realistic and don't think I can get there from here. I'm like brigidlily with a bit more than a quarter acre, but not all is usable. I'd be better off with a yard full of edible landscaping than the stupid grass that just has to be mowed. If we don't get to move this summer, I'm going to dig that stuff up and plant some food!

Yes Mache and Lamb's Tongue are other names for Corn Salad an old time leafy green that has become rare in the modern world.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=corn+salad&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&search_prefs%5Bblank_cultivar%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=rating&images_prefs=both&Search=Search

Hear, hear, TF! I'm developing my vegetable gardening skills, but in the meantime, I've planted two pear trees, two clementines, a pomegranate, a grape vine, blueberries, strawberries -- all tolerant of the heat down here, or so I'm told.

I wonder if the neighbors would complain if I put in a front yard veggie garden? Complete with chickens?

I think maybe I ought to buy a small farm. Does anyone have one for sale? It has to come complete with farmer.

Way to go brigidlily. All the trees in my yard produce fruit. I have Anna apples, peach, grapefruit, pomegranate, lime, and clementine trees. I lost an apricot so may or may not try that again. I may use that space to expand my veggie growing area. I had grapevines but did not have the energy to fight with the skeletonizers so dug them up. Bt was useless against the hoard of blackish blue buggars and their little yellow stripped offspring.

Thanks Farmerdill. I have purchased mache at Trader Joe's and I have also recently seen seeds. Thinking of growing it this winter. It makes a pretty tasty salad.

Farm? farm? did someone say farm? And, one with a farmer. I'm standing right behind you in line brigidlily.

On the value theme....... it's vital to search out varieties suited to your climate. In the past, I have wasted so much effort and $ trying to grow things or varieties of things not suitable. For instance, zone 8 in CA is vastly different from zone 8 on the gulf coast (humidity). You can't always trust the catalogs for the truth or what is offered by the stores either. DG is a great way to ask others in your zone what works for them.

In the south, muscadines are far more successful and easier than most grapes. Some varieties of plum are extremely heavy bearing on alternate years with only birds for a pest so long as there are no peaches, nectarines or apricots anywhere around. The latter are magnets for pests. Many fruits need another variety blooming at just the right time for good polination.

Thank you Farmerdill explaining what "cornsald" is.
It is a lovely winter salad I grew up with in germany, I will be growing it this year in fall inside the greenhouse in shallow wooden boxes.
Tried it outside before but our darn canadian winter with the snow killed it of before I could have a taste.
I miss the variety of fruits my mom used to grow back in germany, plucked fresh from the tree or bush...mmmmmmmmmm....great memories.
The fruits you get in the grocery store are often so tasteless and overpriced.
I usually go to the "pick your own" local berry farms to get my fix on fresh fruits, but I sure do miss my cherries, grapes and peaches.

"The $64 Tomato" by William Alexander is a fun read related to this topic :-)

I'm fascinated with mache now. Is it a fall crop like lettuce? I want some for these recipes! Yum.
http://www.epicurious.com/tools/searchresults?search=mache

Twiggybuds, one of my high school friends still lives in MS, Houston, I think. Last year he sent me some muscadines and the silly UPS man left them on my front porch in 110 degree heat. Didn't even ring the doorbell. Needless to say, they were pretty much muscadine wine when I discovered them. I got to eat a few, but I just set the rest of the mess aside to dry. Now I have a bunch of seeds and I wonder if they'd grow out here. Any guesses?

Brigidlily, there are a few people in the city who've made gardens in their front yards. One man had such a gorgeous veggie patch, complete with tall corn, that he made the news - in a very favorable way. I think he inspired some others to do a bit of front yard gardening and someone near me had a big sprawl of melon vines right by their front fence. I wondered if someone would poach his watermelons! I actually planted watermelons out front last year and they died. But I'm gonna try again. ;o)

I posted this back in January. Hope it's OK to copy here as it relates to orig question. When this article appeared there had been a long "back to the land" movement that started in the 60s, and the inflation of the 1970s had people growing "Victory Gardens" again. I wish the economy wasn't so tough, but I welcome people going back to home edible gardens again.
________________________________________

I have saved this in a plastic sleeve for years and often refer to it. It was in the Baltimore Sun, April 5, 1981, titled, "Rating vegetables the way an efficiency expert might." It is from a survey by the National Garden Bureau. They took three things into consideration while awarding each vegetable a maximum of 10 points: "They considered total yield to the square foot, average value per pound harvested and seed-to-harvest time." Here's their ratings quoted directly from the article:

9.0 Tomatoes (grown on supports to save space)
8.2 Green bunching onions
7.4 Leaf lettuce
7.4 Turnips, for greens and roots
7.2 Summer squash, zucchini, scallop yellow types
6.9 Edible podded peas
6.9 Onion bulbs for storage
6.8 Beans, pole or runner types, green wax pod
6.6 Beets, grown for green tops and roots
6.5 Beans, bush green or wax pod
6.5 Carrots
6.5 Cucumbers (grown on supports to save space)
6.4 Peppers, sweet green or yellow
6.3 Broccoli
6.3 Kohlrabi
6.3 Swiss Chard
6.2 Mustard greens
6.2 Spinach
6.1 Beans, pole lima
6.1 Radishes
6.0 Cabbage
5.9 Leek
5.8 Collards
5.7 Okra
5.6 Kale
5.3 Cauliflower
5.3 Eggplant
5.2 Peas, green or "English"
4.3 Brussels sprouts
4.3 Celery
4.3 Peas, Southern (black-eyed, crowder, purple hill, etc.)
4.1 Corn, sweet
3.8 Squash, winter, vining types
3.8 Melons
3.8 Watermelons
1.9 Pumpkins
______________________________________________

Of course, this highly depends on what your family likes to eat!

That is a great list! So glad you saved it and shared it. I feel better about tomatoes now. But I wonder why peas are down in the middle when they are so doggone expensive in the groceries? Despite a long list of pea failures, I will try again this winter to grow some. There is absolutely nothing - well, besides sweet corn, maybe - that tastes so good picked and eaten on the spot as an English pea. Oh, how I miss those. I wish I'd paid more attention to how my mother gardened!

TF, I had splendid success with peas this winter--in fact, the last few are still hanging on in spite of the heat. Wanna talk? :)

Jill, you bet I want to know how you grew peas! I really want to grow a big crop this year.

Also surprised by the English peas being so low on the list. I grew snow peas and in 4' x 4' I got over a gallon of snow peas in one season.

Do any of you ever see fresh English peas in the produce section? Once I saw a sign but there was something else in the bin. The manager said they were "coming in" - they never did. I see sugar snaps and snow peas, mostly at around $4 a pound. At that price, I buy frozen. Feldon, Jill, did y'all start with a particular type soil? What exposure did they have? And Jill, when did you plant?

For me, I think carrots and parsnips are great value because I can dig them up long into the winter and have fresh vegetables from my garden that are much cheaper than the store bought, and have WAY better taste. I think the frost helps a lot. I grow a lot of unusual peppers, hot and sweet, that I can't even find in the store, so that represents good value to me also.

The funny thing about tomatoes was that I didn't eat tomatoes until I was in my late 20's. I hated them! I always picked them out of salads or sandwiches. I thought they were awful. The only way I ate them was in soup or pizza sauce or things like that. Well, somebody gave me an heirloom tomato and swore I would change my mind. I was dead set against it, but I tried it, and I was hooked. Now I grow between 30 and 60 varieties a year. I am a tomato addict! But, I still pick them out of salads at certain restaurants because they're bland and the texture is funny. So, for me, growing tomatoes myself is priceless!

The best value for me (although it's not vegetable) is in the berries I grow. Fresh berries are so ridiculously expensive. Sun-warmed raspberries off the plant are priceless. Same with my gooseberries and red currants. But, they're fruits, so off topic!

50 years ago, fresh English peas in the produce section of the A & P was quite normal in the spring. Few people today will take the time and energy to shell them, even if you give them the peas. I share some with neighbors in my age group, but the young folks will not take them on a bet. Too easy to drop a package of frozen peas into a dish. No shelling. Even the frozen ones are taking a hit from prepared micro wave dishes.

English peas are relatively easy to grow, they just can't stand heat and they need a well limed soil (pH 6.5 -7) Her I plant the smooth seeded cultivars ( Willet Wonder and Alaska) in late November-early December) Wrinkled seeded (Dakota, Mr. Big) the first of February. I would expect you would do better with November planting for all types as your winters are considerably warmer.

This message was edited Apr 26, 2008 7:47 PM

Shelling peas is a bit of a pain-in-the-you-know-what, but the taste is sooooo worth it! I'm guessing the reason that they're not higher on the "value" list is that for the amount of garden area, you get relatively little food. Sugar snaps, where you can eat the whole thing, give you far more bang for your buck--just a very different bang!

Let's see. I planted Wando peas this year, since they came recommended as handling heat better than most peas. First planting went in I'm guessing late November/early December, second planting in mid to late January. Plants from the first time around got much much taller, and probably produced more per plant, but second planting produced faster--there was no gap between picking from first plants and second plants, with very little overlap. Each planting was two squares in my SFG, 8 plants per square. I wish I'd about doubled that; it wasn't quite enough from each picking to make a full meal for a pea-eating family of 4.

They were (of course) in my raised bed, with no additional fertilizer (I just plain forgot.) They were planted in full sun on the south side of a wall that runs E-W with support, which they needed. Irrigated by soaker hose. They got no protection from our frosts, and had no problems whatsoever.

Hope that helps for next year, Alma!

This is a great thread. Farmer I will try peas again, thanks. I tried them long ago and my timing must have been way off.

If you like black berries it is time to start thinking about where you can find them for free. Also, here we have the look alike dew berries that grow low to the ground. I know for a fact that they are plentiful along railroad tracks, country roads, lover's lanes and state land. It's a fun outing for the family, the stuff that makes memories.

twiggy, I might plant snow peas, sugar peas, or English shelling peas in mid-December to early January. They laugh at mild freezes.

CMoxon, I see no reason to exclude fruits; chime in please! Now that I think about it, no matter how long it takes to get a peach, it would be exponentially better than the baseballs in the produce section. I have never had a sun-warmed raspberry, but my mouth waters at the thought. I must say I envy your tomato crop; I'm happy if I get a few tasty ones from the few plants I have room for. This year looks to be the best I've had in a long time. (I hope I don't jinx myself.)

Twiggybuds, I grew up in MS. Was born in Magnolia and lived from 3rd grade to early 20's in Columbus. You've brought up some priceless memories regarding blackberries and dewberries. My mother and I went picking every summer. Her pies were to die for and the jam? Out of this world! The wild huckleberries put tame blueberries to shame! There's just no place here to go picking those things.

I think shelling peas is best enjoyed as a social event. At least that's how it was at our house; we picked all kinds of peas and beans, sat and shelled - and talked and talked. Just an added value. ;) Those plants are what I have in mind every time I plant a pea, Jill. I have got to get that right. Last fall, I planted Mr. Big but very few came up and none survived. Farmerdill, I'll try your varieties but try to start at the right time.

Anyone grow those expensive little lettuces? I sometimes can't believe I pay $2.50 for 5 - Five! - ounces of 'washed' lettuce that I still have to pick through before I eat it! Talk about a value crop, that must be close to the top.

TF, I grew up in a house with a raspberry patch--the neighbor's plants jumped the fence and moved in. Talk about heaven! Nothin' to beat fresh raspsberries, scratches and all. Mmmmm!

Are the "baby" lettuces any different from the "grownup" ones? I had two different kinds of lettuce this winter, 3 plants/heads of each kind, and ended up supplying my entire cul-de-sac at harvest time. Just wayyy too much for one family to eat! Sure was yummy, though, and I'm missing being able to go pick dinner!

Feldon I'm watching you. Houston is much like my weather and I've already made note of your tomato choices for future ref.

I had home grown new potatoes tonight and it was truly a gift. Back in early February I found a couple red potatoes with rotten spots and sprouts. I started to trash them but instead I cut off the rot and cured them for a couple days. i didn't have anything else handy so put them in about a five gallon flower pot. Frost got them a couple times and they never looked healthy. Today they looked nearly dead and I wanted my pot for something "worthwhile". I was totally amazed to find about 2 pounds of taters from the size of a quarter up to tennis ball. They were wonderful. Guess what I'm going to do with all my unused containers next season.

Tomatofreak you warm my heart with mention of your memories. I don't know anyone that goes berry picking now days and they are everywhere.

I remember the hated pea and bean shelling sessions. When I was a kid about the only thing worse was picking them. If anybody came visiting while that was going on, they usually pitched in to help and were offered a glass of tea. Now it's not too bad with something good on tv but I don't have a bushel at a time either.

I planted something called mesclun mix this year and really enjoyed some salads. I've just got to get my timing worked out. This year I'm running late on everything and I thought I knew better.

What a wonderful potato surprise, twiggybuds! I can only hope my own 'taters do as well for me!

You and me, too, Jill! How high are your potato plants? Mine are running away; I'm late getting the second tire on the Bintje's and the Adora's are ready for a third! Thank goodness the Norkotah's are growing more slowly. Twiggybuds, I have some store potatoes that I've done the same with; I cut off the bad spots, divvied 'em up and I'm going to plant them this weekend. It's way late here to be planting potatoes, but they'll be in shade and what's to lose? I could have thrown them in the compost so if I get some baby potatoes, all the better.

Great thread! Yes, tomatofreak - I think this list might be tweaked today a bit because of different costs. I can't imagine that anything is CHEAPER though : (

I think peas are low on the list because they take up quite a lot of room compared with the actual amount of peas you harvest.

Peas!!! I'm so glad to hear some fans - we planted 2, 19 foot wide rows of LINCOLN peas and they are just coming up. Maybe that's a little late here. We experimented with a lot of different peas and Lincoln seems the easiest to shell and they taste great and are really productive. My husband and I sit in front of the TV and shell and shell. I bought a pea sheller - expensive at $50. - but it crushes too many peas - I might try it again if we have tons of peas this year.

CMoxon - It's fabulous you brought up fruits - they are a great value. And I totally agree with you about tomatoes (and a lot of other veggies too) - most of the time bought ones are are pretty bad. Now they are getting better ones to market, but the expense is crazy.

twiggy - that's hilarious about the potatoes! I found my husband in the kitchen a couple weeks ago starting to peel potatoes, "Let's eat up these tiny ones," he says, thinking he's being frugal. "No! They're our seed potatoes!" They are now happily sprouting on a plate waiting to be planted - if it ever stops raining - the other day we got 3-1/4 inches!

Well, a little more on fruits then. I also grow black currants, gooseberries, and several types of melons. The currants (red, black and white) are rare in the stores in these parts, so I can't even put a value on those because I don't know what they would cost fresh. The raspberries are fabulous - I am always having trouble picking enough to fill a container because I eat too many as I pick! I find that the melons fresh off the vine have so much more flavor than the store bought, and of course are a lot cheaper. They probably pick them too early for the stores. I like to try different cantaloupes and also honey dew melons. I have a crenshaw to try as well.

It is funny that you mention peach, because I do have a peach tree, which was in bloom when I bought it, but it has not bloomed in the 3 years since I bought it. I think the flower buds generally freeze. I need to try to find a hardier cultivar. The one I have is an Elberta dwarf peach.

Last year I went to an apple tree grafting workshop and made 10 grafted trees. They all overwintered and are coming on this year. I'm pretty excited about them although it will take time before they bear fruit. I think apples get really heavily hit with pesticides most of the time, so it's valuable to have my own that I know what's on them, or what's not on them!

I have not had much success with the English peas, but I think it's because I always get around to planting too late. My snow peas have done well though. They can be crazy expensive in the store, and they're often a bit wrinkly and past their prime. (well, aren't we all sometimes?!)

I did buy some mesclun mix seed also this year, but haven't planted it yet. I am a bit behind on things this year.

Last year I grew "Peruvian Purple" fingerling potatoes. They were so good! Then I found out later in the season that they were a "hot item" in restaurants last year and that chefs in some cities were paying top dollar for them. I should find out if any Des Moines restaurants are interested! Such an easy crop to grow!

Gardening is so much more fun than grocery shopping!

There's nothing like a little success to encourage me. My flower pot taters were grown in tired old soil that surely had been used 2 or 3 years for flowers and was not refreshed with new anything except a little fertilizer. I can't wait to see what can happen when I get serious about it.

I just got a pitter off ebay. It does cherries and olives on one side and plums on the other. Every year I try to give away plums and have no takers who will come pick them. This year, it will be just me and the birds enjoying them but most of mine will first go in the freezer or jars. A can of fruit is so expensive that a pie is a real luxury. I'm thinking I need a couple apple trees for the front yard. My dad was from PA and he always said apples won't grow here. Now they've developed new varieties that don't require as much cold.

Yes gardening is far more fun than grocery shopping.

I've never had a currant in my life and now I'm wondering what I'm missing.