I've just been checking out Clothier's site, and it really seems the germination for columbine is just all over the place.
some could take months, some need warm then cold, and some are warm to cold to warm.
is there a method to this madness?
and for WS, do you just sow them in the jugs, put'em out side and hope/pray for the best??
Columbine germination
Fresh seed that falls from current season's blooms germinates readily, but as the seed ages it develops the need for cold stratification. I think this ensures that seed that germinates soon after flowering has time to get mature enough to survive the winter, but seed that falls late requires winter treatment so that they don't get frozen as tiny seedlings.
I've had great luck wintersowing them in milk jugs. If you wintersow them now, in your zone you should see results.
I agree with gemini, those seeds that you got from me were fresh :) I wanted to do some downstairs this year but have too many others to start I'll be WS some this week. The germination rates are scattered so don't throw those jugs away unless you count the seeds you put in, I have one that I've tried a couple of times to germinate it's the firecracker I think, I should try that one downstairs but oh the room is running out LOL Mine don't usually start to germinate in the jugs until the middle of summer almost ;-) Oh, last year I did sow some seed trays of them then put them outside in one of my little greenhouses for about three weeks then put them under lights and then when they started germinating I put them back in the little greenhouse again then when we had the freeze I brought them back in, I did that with chocolate soilder, pink bonnets and I'll have to find my notes I'll be back hope I kept track of them lol When you sow so many seeds it's kind of hard but I hate not having the information for the next year, this year I'm 'trying' to do better LOL
Lea -- i did notice that most of my seeds are from you. a few from Carol, so those were old.
I think i have 13 packets.
I will definetly mark on the jugs if the seeds were old or not, so i dont toss the jugs if there is no germination --
also, if not... where should i stash them, in the shade, garage... til i finally get something?
Gemini -- thanks for your comment too.
I've totally procrastinated today .... got just about nothing done. the jugs have finally at least moved to the counter from the corner.... but no soil yet ... maybe tonight.
Magpie and William G. did good WS, I think every seed germinated
Didn’t have any luck with the Italian Marble WS
Chrysantha Yellow Star did good WS a bunch of good lol
Sweet Rainbows did good WS
X Hybrida Roman Bronze did good WS
The ones I didn’t have any luck WS should be tried inside or doing the greenhouse thing like above, or that’s how I would sow them again anyway :) Some of these I took off of other year’s notes that I have sown these seeds. I can’t find the disk for what I sowed last year it’s here somewhere lol I’m soo organized, I put that up somewhere so I would find it lol
I just kept my jugs in the shade they got a little bit of sun in the morning not much after it got hot.
I've done a lot of transplanting today still not finished when I do it's on to 30 jugs sitting on my tv room floor lol Dad just loves it when I have this room all cluttered and when he woke up this morning I had the stove racks out across the sink with my tomatoes draining after watering them LOL
I just found my list of what I sent you and they should be good to WS :)
thanks. and i was gonna say, out of all the ones you listed above, the "bronze" is the only one that rang a bell.
hopefully i wont be lazy tomorrow -- or even later tonight... going out to dinner.. it's "free pizza tuesday" at the local pizza joint... actually, its buy one get one... but we call it free pizza tues...
but it is getting late... DH needs to get off the phone... i really dont like eating after 6, and heres approaching 7.
That Roman Bronze is odd to me, I had some planted in the shade garden and it had a pink tint to the flower and then I had a couple in pots that got sun most of the day and it was like it's suppose to be, guess I better plant those this year lol
http://www.tmseeds.com/product/7748.html
Never did get the orange-bronze foliage but maybe I would have if I had gotten them in the ground.
Well if you get any of the others tcs then you'll know you can WS them lol I'll have seeds to those this fall for the swap :)
I was just this morning researching how to plant the A. 'Rose Barlow' seeds (from LeBug, thank you very much!) and came across this Aquilegia National Collection site at Touchwood that I thought you all migh find interesting.
http://touchwood.touchwoodspirit.com/articles.htm
I'm trying to figure out if I'm too late to plant 'Rose Barlow'. Some say the new hybrids don't require the same scarification as the old varieties--I wonder if RB is new or old....?
Hey T -- great find!! thanks for that link.
That's a nice site, if you go into sowing that purple columbine is just like the purple seeds that I didn't have a name to :)
t, I don't have 'Rose Barlow' :) Must have been someone else.
LOL, OK, Le Bug, if you don't want to take credit! Someone else, then! (-:
Aren't those columbine photos gorgeous though?! Makes me want to plant every single one!
I have had good results wintersowing McKana's Giants and Origami. No special treatment- just put the jugs out there with everything else, and eventually they germinated. They didn't bloom until their 2nd year, but worth the wait.
Karen
I have a couple of WS containers of Columbine but after I looked at that page from the National Collection I want to sow the rest of my seeds!
k., do you think it's too late to winter sow them here?
tabasco: I really don't know. I'd give it a try unless the seeds were some I felt I really couldn't risk losing. You could let the jug sit around till next year if they don't sprout, or dump into a garden bed and hope for the best.
Chances are good, I'd bet, that we have quite a bit of cold weather yet to come. Strat doesn't mean freezing, just in the 40s.
Karen
OK. Will do. Thanks.
t, I think its certainly worth a try. We'll still be getting frosty nights and that will probably do the trick. But if any don't germinate, I'd hold on to the containers. I'm so glad I didn't toss the container of Cyclamen coum I wintersowed last year, it was full of babies this January! The jug sat ignored, under the deck out of sight for a year.
Didn't read this whole thread - sorry. I will say that mine all self sow very well for me.
I wintersowed Barlow mixed doubles and Tequila Sunrise and got great germination on both. Took them over a month to show any germ. at all though.
Bev
Bev -- i marked in my notebook and spreadsheet NOT to throw/dump the containers for no germination.
I'll just let them sit until i see something.
Good to know. I'll just have to be patient!
tcs1366. After reading some things on some of the posts I thought I'd never get columbine to come up, as I knew nothing of WS. I just put them in my seed starting medium, stuck it in a baggy, and stuck it in the maternity ward (bathroom) with the rest of the expectant seeds. This afternoon I looked in the baggie, not really expecting anything. There I saw 4 or 5 little bitty green seedlings! I started to go buy cigars I was so happy!
gp
Yay!!!!
GP, What kind did you sow, and which ones are coming up?
Tab, One of the flowers the hummer scouts are looking for is Columbine. Esp the red/yellow native, but I bet they would be fooled with the Red Star, Red Cardinal, Tequilla Sunrise and Little Lanterns hybrids.
Here is the Hummingbird Migraiton map -- what are they doing so far north? It's cold up here!!!
http://www.hummingbirds.net/map.html
Suzy
This message was edited Apr 4, 2008 12:19 AM
Just wanted to add that I sowed Tequila Sunrise also and some unknowns and had great success indoors in peat pots. I keep my house at an average temp of 58-62, so I think that may have provided enough cold temps for them. All of them have 2 real leaves already and I started them 2-25.
I say this in reply to tabasco's post about whether or not it's too late to WS--because my seeds came up indoors due to my thrifty-thermostat-setting. :) Whereas, the ones I really did wintersow outside in 2L bottles haven't done anything. I say divide your seeds and try all the methods you can think of. Maybe even try some in the garage if your house isn't as nippy as mine, if you don't want to try outside.
I've always had success using plug trays for starting Columbine. They are happy little sprouts growing in their own tiny plug. Don't cover the seeds with soil and keep the tray cool and in the dark until they sprout. Use a fine mist for watering since the plugs only hold about a half teaspoon, or less, of soil in each. My DD used to work for a seed company that that's how they started their trial Columbine. I figured if that's the way the Big Boys do it, it must work, and it does. You can get the plug trays from Park Seed.
Diana
thanks for the additional comments.
mine are all outside in containers on my back patio. they are not in the dark though... western exposure... should i put them in the shade?
Even if they dont germinate til later this summer... that's OK because i wont get blooms til next year anyways.
It says that columbine need light to germinate? That doesn't make any sense :) I just put 4 trays in one of my little greenhouses then in a few weeks I'll bring them in when I have room if they don't germinate out there. Hre's what I planted:
Yellow Star ~ Suzy I have a few seeds left if you want me to send them to you :) You still have time for them to germinate.
Star Red
The wild red and cream one, what is the name to that Suzy?
Firecracker ~ I've sown this one for two years and never have gotten any germination! Third time is the charm? LOL
My columbines aren't blooming yet outside I can't wait to see some of the new ones for this year! They are coming up good so far though, I love all spring bloomers LOL I think the reason I like them so much is becaus they won't bloom all summer just a few weeks in the spring so I'm wanting more blooms!
Your Columbine aren't blooming? LOL! Mine have just broken ground...it's hard to believe how close we are and how similar the weather is -- and how much further ahead you are in the season!!!!! I wish I lived just a bit further south.
No, I don't need any Yellow Star. I think you sent me some ? In any case I sowed 3 or 4 different kinds in order to get the biggest, bestest one in the world!
A. canadense...that's the most common wild one.
Terese/TCS, Yes, you shold put yor Columbine in the shade, or at least break up the sun, some. They won't be happy when that jug heats up on Sat when we get all that sun, and prefer a little cooler temperatures, anyway. They also prefer to grow where they get relief from the sun (when you transplant them out).
Diana/Pastime, Are you saying a plug holds 1/2 teasooon of soilless mix? 1/2 TEASPOON? OMG! How do you dribble water into those to water them? I want to run to the Park website to look at them, but I am afraid I'll see more seeds I need! ROTFL!!!
Art'n'garden - I admire your fortitude! Is there any place in your house that is warm? Do you have a dozen fireplaces? I cannot imagine having my house that temperature, though I try to keep the thermostat as absolutely low in the winter as I can stand it, and as high in the summer as I can stand it.
Suzy
I'm hoping those columbines are blooming by the time you get here Suzy, I want an id on a couple of them lol
Thanks for the name of that one I never can remember it I marked that one in the plantfiles so now I don't have any excuse lol
My returning origami are just breaking ground, but the McKana's giants are about 6" tall. I have a few I want to transplant, but it has just been too wet. My clay soil is muck.
This year we have floods, last year was drought. We had the locusts in 4 years ago so they're not due back yet. I wonder was pestilence is next?
Karen
OK -- gotcha... when i get home on Sunday -- I'll get them moved into the shade.
Well - i did talk to one of my kids late morning and he said it was cloudy today, with sun expected tomorrow.
maybe i can get one of the kids to move the box into the shade. i think i have all the columbine containers in a box.
I'll have to find my WS photo here on Daves -- so i know what's what.
Illoquin, I'm sorry, I can't find the seed pack, and I don't remember what kind of columbines they were. Just some I bought from the garden center at the box store. They were Burpee seeds, but that's all I know! I'm just delighted that they germinated. I'm a little puzzled, cause I kept them so warm, and most folks say they need cool. Who knew? Anyhoo, they're up...and runnin...no, not runnin yet, just up! I also bought some bulbs?, corms? tubers? whatever of columbines in case the seeds didn't germinate, but now I'll have some extra. Do you know if the seeds will bloom the first year or no??
No, they won't bloom same year. You might get one or two people who have done it, we'll see if they pipe up here. The things you bought should (will most likely, absolutely will, except if they were old and dried up) bloom this year. Yay! You'll have Columbine!
Normally seed needs a higher temperature to germinate than it does to grow. You might see directions that say this: Germ 70-75 degrees for 10-21 days then grow 55-60 degrees. If your house is 70 degrees, that's the ambient temperature. They say your soil temp is 10 degrees cooler. I think it's true.
Now for the lecture: Ya gotta write a tag out when you start seeds, girl! Just a little something that tells you what they are down the road. You will need to know what those puppies are someday -- maybe Fall of 2009 when we have a seed swap for fresh seeds. You'll have a bumper crop, but nobody will want them because they will be "Columbine", instead of Columbine, McKana's Giants' or whatever. Even if you don't join a swap, or trade seeds, you might want to take a pic of your gorgeous flowers to put in Plant Files, or to post to the Perennials or Cottage Garden Forums. You might take a pic of your whole garden, and then the one question people will have is, "What are those GORGEOUS COLUMBINES?"
The good news is: You have time to go back to the store and look; you'll recognise the package, or try the website. :))
LOL! Sorry for the Lecture... I have been a mother too long. I don't mean anything by it...just yapping.
Suzy
This message was edited Apr 5, 2008 1:07 AM
Suzy -- i we dont' see these 'lectures' we'd never learn about the importance of data for seed swapping.
I got many packets that say, 'Columbine' but if and when they bloom, i will photograph them, and try to get them identified. so then if i get seeds... i'll be able to mark what they are.
Terese
tcs if you have the pink and the purple from me I hope they are in bloom so Suzy can identify if she can :) I just hope they are in bloom when she gets here...sigh but by the time they bloom for you I should have them id'd.
I have been tramping around in the rain today trying to see if any of my columbines have come back from last year. A few are poking up and have some green leaves but not so many. I guess I'll have to be patient.
Haven't seen a lot of columbine germination in my wintersowing boxes either, but I think they might pop when the sun finally comes out and the weather warms up.
I would love to have a whole bank of columbines blooming. My sister (in Columbus, OH) had no trouble growing them but they don't seem to want to take to my garden. I tried to grow the native (red) columbines among many others, but I think it may be too wet here...maybe a raised bed is what I need...
ginpan--I didn't label my Columbines properly either--but most were from seeds that were open pollinated so not the strict variety anyway. I do have to be more careful in my labeling, though, that's for sure.
t, I have some of my columbines in a really bad spot for water and they come back maybe it's what's in the dirt maybe have you done a soil test, I really want your columbines to make it lol
Good idea. I will do a soil test. I do so want those columbines to grow out, too!
Lea -- when i get home, i'll make a list of all the columbine seeds i have.
I know i got them from others too, not just your seeds.
Yes do that tcs, I'd be interested to see which ones you have and we'll have to keep intouch this fall I'll have some extra plants I'm sure ;-)