Verbena bonariensis, first year bloomer ?

I have seeds for this plant, I do know it's a perennial for zone 7[ish] thru 10.

I've read some of the comments about it becoming invasive even in zones where it is not a perennial,

my question is... if i sow these seeds, will it bloom first year, or will i just get foliage and then it wont even come back for next year?

I'm thinking about this plant for a butterfly garden here in zone 5.

TIA,

Terese

Hi tcs :)

No worry they will bloom and bloom, your butterflies and hummers will love them I think the hummers like them better but it may be a toss up lol I have little seedlings even grow to bloom from the originals the same year, you're going to like this plant be sure an plant some others along with it though it's a good one to peek out of other plants not much foliage to it.

Lea
'

Well, you MUST try to grow it for your butterflies. I start several VB seeds by wintersowing them in containers in February/March and they sprout when the soil warms up (April/May). They will bloom in late July/August/September.

I also start a few seeds indoors in trays in Miracle grow potting mix in March. Some sites say they need warmth to germinate. T & M says 60-65 degrees F. Clothiers says 70 degrees F. I just set mine on the counter and keep moist under lights. These plants will bloom a bit earlier in the season and are nice to have around in mid-summer.

Third method: In the fall I take a few seed heads and crumble them in the garden where I want VB. I have had good luck with this but others say they get no reseeding and it is useless.

Using all three methods of seed sowing I get plenty of VB and some come into bloom early (the ones started inside). By August/September I have plenty of blooms and that is when most of our Monarchs and Swallowtails are in flight.

Our garden is not so formal and we like the wavy airy purple VB growing amongst the zinnias, cosmos, cleome, sunflowers, milkweeds and cannas. Others may call this invasive, but in our zone it is not an 'invader'. The plants are easy to Yank if you don't like where they are, too.

And they are the favorite butterfly flower in our garden. And the hummingbirds like them too.

Sorry. Too much information. But I love the VB in our Butterfly Garden.

Thanks Lea,

so, do you think that if i just did the "sprinkle seed' thing in the area, they'd all do well? but then, they'd have to be watered.

I have A LOT of seeds as you know.

I'll have to see how much verbena i have. I vaguely recall WSing them last year, but no flowers -- but by the time i planted out, they were all NoIDs .... so I honestly can not say they even survived... especially if they are supposed to bloom first year.

Terese

oh T -- thanks for all that great info... i will try them inside too. I have these flats and a heat mat that i put in a south window.

I have two of these http://gurneys.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_69905
did well for me last year.

I can't believe someone said they didn't reseed for them lol I have a lot of flowers that don't reseed for me like they do for everyone else but not this one!

Those heat kits look perfect. I bet you have a lot of fun starting seeds with them!

I know, the 'no-reseeding' thing really surprised me, too. But some butterfly gardeners are amazed that I can get them to reseed (easily). Maybe we are just warm enough through the winter where we are?

Maybe so t :)

tcs-- a little more info on VB: http://www.hort.wisc.edu/mastergardener/Features/flowers/Vbonar/vbonariensis.htm

awesome site T. thanks.

I'm giong to be adding some herbs to my B&B garden too.
i'm so excited.

I'm trying to get a lot sorted out tonight as i have a HOA meeting tomorrow -- so i gotta be prepared.


now i'm off to find out about parsley around rose bushes.

I hear parsley is a good one to WS :) So I tried some this year.

I read it's good for SwallowTails.... so ti's one herb, among many, i requested in the Suzy Swap

I'm going to plant a lot of herbs around my roses and tomato plants this year.

I grew lemon basil last year with my tomatoes and they tasted wonderful, I've planted the sweet basil every time before that and couldn't tell that much difference but the lemon did it, I have some lemon basil seeds left if you want some.

The parsley makes a pretty border but don't look for it to last the cats will get it lol

i actually got some Lemon Basil heirloom seeds from the gal in Spain that sent me heirloom tomatoes.

I normally use the fresh basil in my scrambled eggs with fresh tomatoes ... so the lemon doesnt taste the best... i'll use the sweet for that... but the lemon is great in salads or pasta dishes.

I think i have 8 packets of basil seeds!! 2 chive, 4-5 parsley and 1 of something else. so -- i've certainly got herbs covered.

I just hope the bunnies don't like them as much as the butterflies do.

I had my parsley planted where the bunnies were last year where all of my host plants are and didn't really notice them eating those, they may have nibbled, I was pretty busy last year though so I may have missed some nibbles because the butterflies ate it all or I think it was them there were cats on them lol

I used parsley as a border around my butterfly garden and our cats paid no attention to it at all. And the bunnies ignored it, too.

There must have been better stuff planted for them.

Your scrambled egg recipe sounds delish!

I found a lot of good info about herbs for butterflies in this thread: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/781128/

LeBug--what other herbs did you winter sow? I have a bunch of herb seed packets and no more room under lights...

T -- i actually found that link last night... didnt have time to fully read it yet, so i tagged it - so i can find it later.

I've done some dill and parsley this year but haven't gotten into all of my WS yet this year and I don't do many herbs, I did sow some wormwood from Weez, is that an herb? lol Dmail me and tell me what herbs you have to sow yet and maybe I can help you :) You can WS bronze fennel I think I have some seeds to that somewhere to do yet. I'm doing skullcap downstairs and parsley, lemon basil and doing some comfrey downstairs in a week or so.

I had parsley around the butterfly bush and the cats ate it all, I was going to do a border of it around my nectar garden and never got around to it, I'll do some this year. I had some in the host garden too and they ate it all it was later in the season though the cats went for the butterfly weed first.

tcs, I love those tags they are already coming in handy :) You have a few basils there lol I think I might pitch some verbena bonariensis in with my host plants this year when I run across the seeds, I have seeds everywhere still lol

Lea -- I'll do that. Just sorta got busy with other stuff, and i still want to get out and wash my car... it's a balmy 45° out there, but then Association stuff gets in the way.

I'll have to make a list of all my herbs... since i dont think i have them in my spreadsheet yet. but that Bronze Fennel sounds nice.

and i'm growing most the herbs for critters/butterflies ... though aside from the basil, i may sample a few, like chives... but i've never been a parsley person... i recall Debra [fuequ..... i forget how to spell it] mentioning parsley for her 'cats'.

**ive left this post up all day, hoping I could get to it [the DMail] ... but not gonna happen til prolly tomorrow.

What do you use Wormwood for? Is that Artemisia? I think it's a host plant for one of the butterflies (can't remember which one).

tcs, I love the bronze fennel, I don't like the smell lol But it's a pretty plant and about 4' tall maybe, I did have two full grown ones that came back but they didn't come back last year, I sowed a couple more last year that popped up from seedlings they made it but they don't care much for transplanting when you are digging them from the ground didn't have any problem transplanting the ones I WS though a few years ago so I'm doing more this year, haven't found my seeds yet lol

t, I've had the artemisia tilesil for about two years now and have never seen any cats on it and the silver wormwood, it doesn't reseed either, I mainly planted that one because I heard it would keep rabbits out of the garden, haven't really seen any in that garden, I've also got the artemisia lime light and no cats, haven't seen any rabbits in that garden either. I do have cats on my lovage, not a lot and I'm glad of that because it's just in one little corner of my herb garden. I like the looks of the wormwood too I think it's pretty!

Lea -- seems life just gets in the way sometimes....

I'll get my list of herbs and pop you that Dmail.

I really need to get WS'ing .... weather has been breaking a bit ... and i just hope i am not running out of time.

I also have to get the columbines going [thanks T]
Uggg - i need more containers.

I just googled "Companion plants ..... " because i couldn't recall what i need to plant near my tomatoes and roses ...

found this neat list .... http://www.americasbestflowers.com/herbs/companion_herbs.htm
and funny thing -- it says about Fennel, "not friendly to anyone"

Also it stated for Lavender - that it repels rabbits.

well, not my lavender. I have a bunny that nests every year in the roses, under the lavender...and i've seen them / the babies, snacking on it. cute as can be.... they dont eat much, so it doesnt bother me.

BUT -- nifty list. I just hope i have enough room to add all the herbs, bee balm, 3-4 'mater plants, ect.

Very interesting companion plant list. Funny about your bunny! I guess he hasn't read the list!

LOL T

i was just searching my HD for the pic of the cute lil baby bunny ... i used to have it as my wallpaper.

but this is where she makes her nest for the past 6 years .... id say at least 4 yrs there have been babies.

inside all the rose canes, there is an open spot where she has dug her nest ... the lav lays over it... even though it is not in this image.

**edited to add.... found another interesting article. http://ezinearticles.com/?Growing-Herbs-For-Companion-Plants&id=408661
i think i need more Yarrow.

This message was edited Apr 8, 2008 8:17 PM

I get many, many swallowtail larvae on my bronze fennel and parsley as host plants. Lots of butterflies as a result. My Brazilian verbena reseeds some, but for the last five winters have overwintered just fine and been perennial plants. I don't notice larvae on them, but the adults (and hummers) sure love the blooms.

Thanks Hoosier!!

I'm hoping to attract butterflies ... got the Fennel from LeBug, and various parsleys.

I'm SOOOO ready for spring/summer

Oh, and the bronze fennel will reseed freely and probably over-winter as well. The larvae don't eat enough to make the plants unsightly either. They're pretty cool. If you touch them, they curl their heads and stick out a little orange Y-shaped "horn" that emits a strong smell; part of their defense against birds I guess. On one large fennel plant last summer I had at least seven caterpillars, usually of the dark black swallowtail butterfly. I see zebra swallowtails in the garden and occasionally the giant tiger swallowtail, but I think their larvae eat tree leaves. Have fun.

I keep looking for seedlings off of my fennel and don't see any, guess I collected too many seeds from them last summer lol I'm going to have to quit doing that then instead of having to plant more I'll have seedlings!

I couldn't open your link, tcs. Maybe I can later it will work. I have yarrow in the yard. Is it supposed to be attractive to butterflies? It must be because that's usually why I buy plants, but I haven't seen BFs around it....mine is yellow.

Can I direct sow the Fennel into the garden as Illoquin suggests--put the seeds in a little spot and cover them with a milk jug or whatever until they germinate, then move to where we want them? I already have a couple of plants in the garden, but they haven't reseeded for me (or maybe I pulled the seedlings thinking they are weeds). (-:

I (FINALLY) received my 'Specialty Perennial' order and have artismisia seeds in that. Also lots of agastaches, salvias, rudbeckias, and alyssum (about 40 kinds of seeds)! I don't know if it's too late to plant them or not!

I will have loads of Verbena 'bonarienses' to share if anyone want some. My wintersowing crop is booming. So is my self seeded crop in the garden.

T -- it's a nice site...i've printed it and highlighted stuff good for Tomatoes.
one comment on the yarrow is ==>

tabasco, mind if I ask when you ordered from Specialty Perrenials? I ordered from hardyplants (affiliated) on 2-4 and still nothing...

OH, my, you ordered on February 4? I thought mine were in never never land and I ordered on Feb. 26! I made 2 or 3 phone calls to them and one e-mail before they arrived Friday.

They said there was some 'mix-up'. I spoke to Harvey (the dad) both times I called. I think you should call them.

I already have called after I emailed them a couple of times with no response (didn't realize it was the customer's job to harass a business for delivery! lol). At this point I think I'm just going to go through my bank for a refund

please make sure you comment in Garden Watchdog, I intend to when it's all over

Oh, I wish they would get their act together. They have such a great list of seeds and I love to order from them since they seem to be a small family run biz, but this unpredictability and delay is not practical/nice for the gardener/customer (or anybody, really).

This is about the 5th order I've made from them and I've not had much trouble at all before. I have made a few comments on Watchdog about them already and I'll add some more.

I read the first couple of posts on this thread trying to play catch up with all my favorite forums. I only scanned the rest of the posts so please forgive me if what I'm about to say about V. bonairiensis has already been mentioned....
.I winter sowed mine last year and planted the seedlings in my butterfly garden in and around my Irises. Not knowing what to expect, I just left the ugly dead looking stems over the winter. To my surprise, they are blooming on the old wood. I did not know that! I also have self sown seedlings too. I dug up one of the older (lst years) plants that I sent to a friend DGer, and to my surprise the root system was mega enormous (I can't spell forgive me) It was huge! (that's better)

Deb

tabasco..lol, I love to support the little guy but follow through would sure be nice. It's my first order and I'm not impressed, just thinking I've been ripped off. I've been able to acquire most of what I ordered from other sources since the delay was already long and they've gotten here...some from other countries even...lol

back to verbena (sorry for the rant), out of the winter-sown stuff I've done they came up really fast for a perennial

Tropicanna, yes, I know where you're coming from and I agree totally!

Interesting about the verbena blooming on old wood. I did not know about that. I did know that the birds like the seeds so I leave some of the sticks up in wintertime, too.

Lea -- I just had to run in to tell you.... I have Bronze Fennel babies!!
didn't see them the other day... but they are about 2" tall. YAY.