Join Us! Seed Swap Seed Starting & Conversation #6

I thought it was time for a new thread.

We came from here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/818643/

I just had to transplant a dozen of my Stachys coccinea 'Chinook's because they were getting way too big. The trouble is, not all had germinated and I really messed up the top part of the soilless mix where the seeds were when I dug the big ones out, so I don't think I'll see the remainder. NEXT time, I would sow the entire pack of 25 March 1st, not Feb 14, and would sow them in a big 6" azalea pot. Then I could prick ot the bigger seedlings as they got to size without disturbing the slow pokes. The root systems on these are enormous and somebody in Z6-7-8 could certainly direct sow these babies, or at least wait until after the last frost so they didn't have to take up so much room under lights. At the rate they are growing, they will need quart size pots before set out. Now they are in 3" long pots....the best size pot for a deep roots system, and yet a lot can fit under lights (more 3" can fit than by using 4" pots)

Suzy

Yes, I can see how experience in seed sowing would really help. Especially to be efficient with resrources (like lighting space and potting mix) with choosing the right pot size or method to starting the seeds, whether to use the peat pots or not for difficult to transplant seeds, and whether to use the tiny multi pack seed trays or a nice deep 3 inch pot. And how many seeds to start. I always assume nothing will grow for me and then I have to kill them off (which tears me apart!)

And the timing. No reason to start early if the seedlings are just going to languish under the lights or succumb to drought (during a vacation trip) and that sort of thing. All issues I didn't really understand at the git go.

And I haven't even mentioned the scarification, soaking (or not, and for how long) issues.

All things I didn't have a clue about before DG. So thanks everybody!

Oh my, now I'm already feeling the crunch for space! After transplanting just 3 little pots of seedlings, there's stuff spread all over. Those sturdy little snapdragons are all in their own pots now, about 50-60 of them, along with 3 dozen Nicotiana. The good thing is everything that is getting transplanted now will go into cold frames in a few weeks. Thats when the big rotation will start taking place.

Today I've got to get Salvia coccinea sowed, as well as some Yvonne's Giant salvia that a generous DGr surprised me with.

On a whim, I ordered some seed for large, decorative dahlias. I'm wondering if I should start those now? Or probably in the next couple of weeks. Suzy, you said tubers and seed bloomed about the same time for you, didn't you?

When do you know to transplant-I put them in 4" of dirt hoping they would be OK until they went outside. From all of the talk I am guessing I have to transplant them at some point??

Fairy, if you spaced your seed out you may not need to transplant. Some things grow faster than others too. I wait till they start getting crowded to transplant; I like to get some size to them before I transplant-1 or 2 sets of true leaves, or for tiny seedlings maybe more. I think the snaps have 3 sets of true leaves.

I don't think any of them have a set of true leaves yet...I guess I will just keep an eye on them...thanks!!

It's taken me ages to get ready to sow seeds. I've been quietly following along each thread, mostly lurking and soaking up as much info as I could and not wanting to admit how far behind I've been feeling. It's been a little depressing (and cool) to see everyone's brand new babies.(Please keep posting your baby pictures!)

It's kind of nice to hear that some things you're wishing you had waited on. This is giving me hope that I'm not too late yet! It's not as cold here as it is for lots of you, but it will still stay cool for quite a while.

Susybell, when is your last frost date? Being in z8 I would think you would be getting real close, I wish I was in z8 :)

Where have susybell, bluespiral & KD gone?? Haven't seen them here in 4EVER!!

Officially, it's the end of March, more or less. But I'm still at a northern latitude, so it may not frost but the ground stays cool. I usually put tomatoes out around the end of May, or later.

(There are some advantages to z8, I'll admit. I've been working with DH building new raised beds this past week. We even got dirt/compost delivered. The weeds are also doing quite well, darn them!!)

Hi Fairy, been lurking and keeping my mouth shut about 60' temps, sunshine, new beds, and 7 yds of fresh dirt delivered as you all get hammered with more snow.... ;)

Yeah-yack it up there missy!!LOL We are envious of you now, but I don't mind the snow so much-it is the driving to work @ 4am 40 miles when the trucks haven't been out to plow that I hate!!

Suzybell, have you started anything in the house yet?

Fairy, dad is mad at me for not taking him to church this morning lol He wouldn't even speak to me when I first got up lol I told him it's too icy out there that he might fall and he started talking about all of the times he used to drive in the snow lol The poor thing has cabin fever soo bad lol

we have had some nice temps around the 50s and some sun..but it wont last as we have many rainy days ahead of us yet...ive been taking my little seedlings outside when it isnt freezing out..and they are doing ok.. i am just starting to plant so they are quite little..and i sowed a flat yesterday of coleus, abutilon, geraniums , tomatoes, diascia and those darned torenia..the pack said 35 seeds and i sure didnt see many and they were the tiniest ever..i hate it when park seed dont have pelleted seed .

pam

Lea-tell your dad that maybe one of the generous christians can pick him up is he wants to go....

Hi Fairy, yes, you're right-that kind of commute is tough. I spent a couple of years in Colorado, so I can relate. I think we did get frost last night, though. Does that help? ;) Pam is right, our nice weather is going to be pretty temporary. It's nice to get a break from the rain, though!

Hi Lebug, Not yet. I've had to get shelving and lighting figured out-and space. That's supposed to be today's project, actually. I think it may still be too early for me to start tomatoes but I want to get other stuff started now.

I do have stuff wintersown-LOTS of columbine, and some of PamSue's wallflowers-they're my first success! (Thanks Pam! )

This message was edited Mar 9, 2008 9:38 AM

Fairy, It also makes a difference on whther you have wintersown them or are growing them inside under lights as to when and if you need to transplant.

Susybell, I am soooo behind! I have a million things still to sow, but I am already out of room, so I need to put them outside. With the weather the way it is, there doesn't seem to be any rush around here to do it, but OMG! I will never have enough time to plant everything out!
You can tell you are young -- in the OLDEN days I would have 7 yards delibvered, no problem, but now the thought of moving that much by wheelbarrow just makes me tired thinking about it!

Geminii, The Large decorative dahlias cannot get any frost. NONE. They don't even like 35 degree weather. They only want to be transplanted into the soil when it's warm, and can live for a long time in a cold frame that is sweltering hot inside from the sun and warm temperatures if they get enough watering.

They take 14 days to germinate, once that happens they grow up, up UP really fast...faster than Zinnias. You need to pinch them at least once, and then those 2 get pinched once, which will give you an extra 6 days, but they hit the lights before you know it and if you have baby seedlings under there, they all have to be raised up to the lights because they lights have to be raised for the dahlias!!!

So, where in Kentucky are you? I really think you should use May 1 as a set out date to make sure the soil is warmed up. I use May 7 or 10th for dahlias and tomatoes and other hot things Gazania, Portulaca, ...

My Yvonne's Salvia just germinated yesterday. It took about 8 days. I also have red Salvia gregii from 2006, but I'm not real sure what it is. :)

For my red (mostly annual) bed: I bought some red double dahlias and I have a lot of red Zinnia seeds here, so I have long pokey things like Salvia and round full flowers like Dahlias, now I need what??? Red Single daisies? What other shapes are there in red annuals?

Suzy

Susy, I would go ahead and start your tomatoes if I were you, mine are going they just came up and will be just the right size by the time I get them outside. I still have a lot of WS to do yet too I'm really behind on that stuff lol Are your wallflowers coming up now? I can't wait till mine do but I have to plant them first lol

Fairy LOL I won't get into that again I feel kind of bad for getting on the church people but it's the truth lol

Pamsue, hi :) Nice to hear from you, sounds like you've been busy! I hate it when they don't pellet the seeds too when they are that small! When I went to plant some tomatoes I forgot some were pelleted? That is so strange to have tomato seeds pelleted and they didn't do all that great when I planted them last year I don't want those pelleted again, this time I only had three left and 2 out of 3 germinated.

I had a nice surprise this morning I've had some Inula seeds since 2006 and finally got around to planting them didn't really expect germination and I have several babies down there now, yes I'm a proud momma lol Those blooms look so strange from T&M catalog that I can't wait to see them bloom I just hope they give me at least one so I don't have to wait until next year! Has anyone seen those in bloom? I wish I could find a red perennial like this one!

Suzy, I've got a bunch of seed trays waiting to get planted today, I'm soo far behind too Suzy! And all of these seeds waiting to be WS! LOL And I have three of those Atropurpurea up now it it won't be a month until the 12th that I've planted them lol They aren't growing very fast anyway so I might be alright with them, do you think they will bloom this year? There are a couple of seeds I've given up on and have to plant again I ordered some 'midnight beauty orange' begonia seeds and the first tray didn't germinate but that was before I took care of the mold problem so I'm glad I held some back I just hope these germinate they look so pretty! the dusty miller too usually they germinate pretty good for me but this time I've only gotten a couple so far and I really want a bunch of those so they need to be planted again while I wait to see if any more come up from the fist tray lol I want to do a bunch of those in between the yarrow I'm using for a border do you think that will look alright? There's going to be other ones in between too though like the smaller marigolds that I got in the swap and whatever else I can do there. I'm transplanting more of the Prunella today and I think all of the Bush Violets came up, I just planted those too!

Suzy, I'm in central Ky, about 15-20 miles east of Lexington. I'm gonna wait on those dahlias a while, maybe till April 1. Space is a commodity under the lights, so I'll be better off waiting. I need a greenhouse soooo bad, LOL.

We all need a greenhouse! I think we should go from house to house and help build them lol I would give ANYTHING to have a REAL greenhouse and be able to heat it!!!

hi there
actually i emerged out of hibernation when the sun came out :)) maybe you can relate to that susy
im so glad your wallflowers came up..i was going to sprinkle the rest of my seeds outside..when the threat of frost passed..maybe around the end of april to first part of may..ive had these same plants for about three years or so. theyre supposed to be biennial but they have survived this long.
i hope to plant another flat of assorted tonight as we have plans today...i only have three flats to work with at a time..as i have enough heat mats for 3 and i rotate out as soon as they germinate to first leaves.
pam

Suzy,
7yds isn't as much fun for me as it was 10yr ago, either.....I'm not THAT young. One nice thing about a small yard, though-I don't need 20 yards-groan! Luckily, DH doesn't mind moving dirt too much so that makes it much easier because I don't have to do all of that part by myself. Weeding, well, that's a different story altogether!
A bunch of us PNW DG-ers just spent yesterday afternoon at Rachierabbit's helping her move 20yds of dirt and a couple of yards of compost. It was a lot of fun, and wow, we got a lot done.

LeBug, when do you put out your tomatoes? I've got very little room for them once they're too big for the seedling tray.

Well, if I'm going to get anything done, I'd better step away from the keyboard.

The sun came out here today too and has energized me, I actually feel like planting today lol Amazing what a little sunshine will do for you!

Pam,

Oh yes, I can totally relate to emerging when the sun comes out, lol!!

When is your last frost date Susybell? I would start them about 8 wks. before that but I bet your frost date is less than 8 wks. away? If they get a little leggy just plant them deeper you can do that with tomatoes and I found out last year you can do that with peppers too :)

Hi Lea,

Yes, I'm probably at about 4 weeks for frost, weird weather notwithstanding, but we won't really start hitting temps above 60-65 until late May-sometimes mid-June, and chances are very good it will be gray and rainy until mid-May, so then I have more of a chance with blights and wilts and other associated nasties if they go out too soon and get too soggy. We get some of our best summer weather in early September, and it's not unheard of to be able to still harvest tomatoes into October. I guess it's kind of a balancing act for all of us, really. :)

Gosh, when we have a wet sumer the tomatoes do pretty good here they like all of that rain! We have the clay soil too so you are waiting until about the last of March to start them, that might be better for you :) You know your weather better than me for sure :)

A wet summer here means it's probably barely hitting 70'. Bleah. Not hot and sunny enough for tomatoes. Pam may have better luck than I do-she's a little further south than me and my yard is mostly part sun/part shade. I have to be very strategic with my tomato placement.

Were we speaking of 'Messenger' here?

Anyway, I just ran across this classified ad for Messenger and I thought the Cottage Gardeners would like to know about it!

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/820003/

t, I have some I bought last year and going to try it this year I was so busy planting last year I forgot to try it lol I hope that doesn't happen this year!

Susybell, I have the same problem with the sun here no matter where I plant tomatoes they just don't do that good I have tried every where in this yard where it gets sun all day but the tomatoes just don't do well, places where I have sun all day I plant full sun plants and they lean like crazy! I finally broke down and bought one of those sun calculators to see just what kind of sun I have! I just hope it works lol The sun here just drives me nuts! My full sun plants do better in part sun here and don't have enough room to plant them all there but I'm just not understanding that at all!

Hi fellow seed swappers - I've been musing about tomatoes seeming not to get enough light, and the nuttiest garden idea I think I've ever had just hit me: what would you think about augmenting low-light conditions outdoors with one of those NASA space blankets that weigh 2 ounces? -

http://www.nitro-pak.com/product_info.php?products_id=998

???

The reflective aspects seem kinda interesting, and the blanket would be relatively easy to work with. Waddaya think? NASA hillbillies? lol

Yup, the sun emerged here too and the winds have subsided. Jasminum nudiflorum is blooming away in a cold frame where I struck a cutting a couple of years ago - very cheery.

I've not been participating in these great threads because I am soooooooooo behind in starting seeds I didn't one to show my cyber-face around here. Am almost to the point where a project I felt I needed to finish first will be done. Gotta go - shall be back

Karen

bluespiral, I have seen others use the silver colored emergency blankets to reflect the available light onto their seed trays.

I don't think it's nutty at all. They say they are rather inexpensive at the Army-Navy Outlets...

Hi all : )
Karen, you crack me up. (NASA hillbillies) lol : ) Might work, tho.

I am really jealous of those that have Yvonne's Salvia. I hope you will be saving some seeds for us that are less fortunate. : )

It has been nice outside today, not too cool, but yesterday was terrible. High winds and cold. Sounds like most of us have alot of our seeds started. I see new things popping up every day. I love it.

Well, got to get back outside, and plant my Barbaros Cherry, before the sun goes down. : )
~Lucy

Get outside Lucy and plant :-P You make me soo jealous! LOL Here I can't even get my car out of the drive way yet!

Lucy
My 'Yvonne's Salvia" seeds arrived last week and I finished cleaning them last night. I'll be sure to save any seeds they produce. it sounded to me like John had lots more seeds though.

We were able to get most of our pruning done today. It was cold but the sun was shining brightly. Helen

What is the deal w/ the Yvonne's Salvia-I have never heard of it B4, but you all seem to love it, so it has to be great-I have to search PF now....

Ok-had to do a google search and holy cow those things are GINORMOUS!!!

Pam and Sue/Susybell, No, I love Oregon and Washington, but I can only take those sunless winters for a week before I go crazy -- last year we had our first sunless winter I can every remember having in Indiana, and it about drove me crazy. I don't know why you don't have more murders there in winter, seriously! Here, the winters are usually VERY sunny, and the snow on the sun is sometimes blinding!

I have a ton of Messenger I need to use up, too....a gallon goes a long way i the spring when the foliage is little.

I have no idea on the Yvonne's, Fairy, I got it because everybody was going on and on about it, but this will be my first year....do you know the story of the Emperor's New Clothes? It could be that :))

But I'll collect seed from it if I can get it going in the garden.

Bluespiral um, not to osure about the NASA look for your garden.... can't yo find a market that sells the tomatoes (the fruits) you want to eat and just BUY them?

Lea, Speaking of the advice I'm giving Bluespiral, I am only growing one plant from seed -- a black cherry tomato. The rest (one or two) will come from the garden center. I am NOT into startting tomatoes from seed (and I really only grow them so I can have Tobacco hornworms and the moth that comes from them....don't tell Mr. Clean. He doesn't even see the chewed leavess...it is soooo funny and they are right in front of his NOSE!!!)

Hissunny/Helen, Whio is John? Your source for the Yvonne's Salvia seeds? I'm sure Lucy would like an introduction to him THIS year and not have to wait for our seeds NEXT year, am I right, Lucy? ~snick!!!

Suzy

I dunno know about the Yvonne's but when I googled it I had a link from the other gardening website and it was a tall as the peeps in the pic w/ it!!