Favorite soil for seed starting?

For years I have used Scott's 360 for starting my seeds, from back when it used to be Peter's Potting Soil. I liked it because it had no amendments in it, and it's light consistency seems to give good results. Now I am considering changing, for several reasons. First, because I have isolated this as the cause of the fungus gnat problem---not just a single bag, but every bag for the past year has come with little friends. Second, I have concerns about supporting a company that makes most of its money off of chemicals that I do not condone, even though none of these are in the product I am buying (or so the label says). Finally if there is an actual organic product that is as good or better, than that would be lovely and I would like to give it a try and the company my support.

I am curious if there is anyone who has a product they love (or one they suggest I should avoid?) to help me in this decision.

Thanks!

I think your right. Scotts potting soil I found to nowadays has fertilizer added to it too. I've been looking for an alternative to. There is two places locally that I know that sale great potting soil. You may check in your area w/ your local nurseries to see if they carry any.

I usually use Miracle Gro seed starting mix and it seems to work fine. I don't think they make an organic one yet though. And they'd raise the same concerns for you as Scott's since they make a lot of non-organic fertilizers, etc.

Yes, you are lucky with your local stores! Maybe I should check to see what it would cost to ship dirt! Locally here there is not so much. High Country Gardens is great for xeriscaping, but it is not focused on organics or making soil/compost. The last time I was up there they were selling bulk mulch, but not dirt. Thanks for the ideas though, I think I'll check into mail order from Garden-ville, to see if shipping is not prohibitive.

Miracle-Gro Organic Choice potting soil has been available here for the last two years. I actually like it a lot. It has no Miracle-Gro in the soil, but it does contain manure, which I have a hard time finding by itself.

Mudpie, and others, are you confusing "Scott's" 360 with "Metro-Mix 360"? I've never seen a Scott's product that is also referred to as '360', only Metro-Mix, that I know of, carries that number.

If there is a confusion it should be noted that Metro-Mix is made by SunGro, not Scott's so there should be no boycotting of that product or company.

If we are talking about Metro-Mix it has no fertilizer in it but only peat moss, vermiculite, bark ash (which is great as it adds good potassium!) and bark.

I've never had a bag arrive with gnats in it but this product certainly retains water much longer than many other potting/seeding mixes and can easily be over-watered thereby contributing to the perfect environment for fungus gnats.

Another great mix is Bonnie's Professional, which used to carry the Miracle Grow name. I don't know if Bonnie's bought out that part of M-Gro or what but it is identical to the former product (peat moss, perlite, dolomitic lime). I think ya'll would like working with it.

Neither of these products aren't touted as "organic" but don't see why they couldn't be unless it is due to the Government buy-out of the name.

Shoe

pbtxlady--when I was talking about MG not making an organic version, it was their seed starting mix I was talking about. They have organic potting mix, but not organic seed starting mix. I think the seed starting mix has less fertilizer in it, I'm not sure if there are other differences or not, but I use the seed starting mix for seeds and their organic potting mix for my containers.

Ah, gotcha. Sorry!

mudpiegirl,
We use this:
5 gallons perlite
5 gallons vermiculite, coarse or medium
2.5 gallons (or 3-4 for a heavier mix) peat moss
2.5 gallons worm castings
4 cups balanced organic fertilizer
1 cup kelp meal
No damping off, minimal use of liquid fish before transplanting (depending upon what we are growing in the plug trays).
brambledad

Horshoe-- You're right--Metro mix is now owned by Sun-gro. It used to be Scotts, and before that it was Peter's potting soil.
I can't keep up with it! The main problem I have with it is that every bag I have gotten from 2 separate sources over the past year (we're talking at least 6 bags--I do a lot of container gardening, too) has come complete with fungus gnats. I am really, really sick of going to the trouble of nuking my soil and adding diatomaceous earth, plus whenever I forget--fungus gnats!

I am pretty vehemently opposed to Miracle-Gro-- I haven't seen if their seed starting mix has chemical fertilizers but I saw that their potting soil does.

I appreciate the homemade version of soil but I am not willing to go that route--yet. I just bought a bag of Ready-Gro Moisture Formula by Botanicare on the recommendation of a local nursery. I thought I'd try it since it used coir instead of peat. I don't think I like it and so far nothing's come up (It's only been 5 days though, so it is definitely too early to panic.) We'll see....

Where do you get Bonnie's Professional? I did a web search and was unsuccessful.

Mudpie, thanks for that info. And yep, I see now that SunGro bought out Scott's (2004). I'm right there with ya, who can keep up anymore?

Along the same vein, what used to be called Miracle Grow potting soil was suddenly appearing as Bonnie's Professional. This happened about 2 years ago if I remember right (maybe 3?). This form of potting soil was/is sold in the compressed bales and has no fertilizer mixed in it. (Which is why I continue to buy it! I much prefer to add my own, or not!) I get it from a local nursery I buy supplies from.

Regarding other Miracle Gro soils, I don't buy 'em! Just not worth it, nor do I buy any soil with fertilizer in it.

I'm still using SunGro metro mix (have 11 bags I'm working with now) and will report back if those dang gnats show up!

Thanks for checking back in!

Happy Gardening, Folks!

Shoe

If you are in or near Texas, you can get ladybug brand. they have a vortex and a potting mix... i love it!

Yes, the ladybug brand is great. A little high, but you pay a preium for good potting soil.

In case anybody is curious, I ended up going back to the Metro Mix. I tried High Country Garden's potting soil--which repelled water (!), and something else I can't even remember now, but nothing sprouted in and I had to start everything over(!). It's true, I am slinking back, tail between my legs. I am glad that Metro Mix is no longer owned by Scotts, at least. I just can't find anything better. I am hoping the fungus gnats problem was somehow isolated to a bad batch (I'm guessing their "batches" are pretty big...) We'll see!

Thanks for that report, MudPie. Just remember, Metro-Mix sure holds the water so water sparingly. I usually stick my finger in it way down PLUS look a the plant, if it isn't wilting I don't water.

Keep us posted on your results. And if you see those dang gnats, zap 'em!

Shoe

Thanks!

Does anyone use organic fertilizer on their lawns???? If so, what brand do you recommend. I live in Upstate New York. Have dead patches this Spring -- perhaps from salt an snow mold. Any suggestions????

On the seed starting mix - I really love Pro-mix. And I'm so frustrated to
find that almost all potting soils sold these days includes fertilizer. I like
to mix in a handful of worm castings in with my potting soil.

I've never heard of Pro-Mix. Where do you get it? My new batch of Metro Mix came with fungus gnats (again!) I love everything else about it, but the gnats are making my husband nuts and he is threatening to throw all of the plants out of the house and the cats too, for just in cat the gnats like them as a replacement!

I usually get my Pro-Mix from the local Agway but they don't have any in
this year. Its Fafard instead. I also bought a bale of Pro-Mix seed germination
from Rob of Rob's Plants, who bought a wholesale bundle (something like
30 bales). Its not that easy these days to find it. But its good stuff and worth
the hunt.

I have never heard of Ag-way--must be an East Coast thing. I'll look for the Pro-Mix online, though! Thanks!

I use Fafard's Germination mix and it's super!!

I've been using the germination mix from Gardener's Supply Company for several years now, and have had tremendous success with it. They have a separate transplanting mix, which I've tried, but is too coarse for me. I just use the germinating mix for the transplants and everything grows beautifully.

I've not used these, but the two I'm looking to try out are Dr. Q's Filthy Rich Potting Soil http://www.starnursery.com/products.php?root=150&sub1=154 and BlackGold Seedling Mix http://www.plantitearth.com/store/product.asp?pid=196&catid=8

They're both OMRI certified for use by organic growers.

Another one is Organic Mechanics potting soil http://www.organicmechanicsoil.com/product.html I've not been able to find small quantities of them, but a larger scale grower or nursery should be able to buy in quantity.

You might want to check the OMRI list of certified products and suppliers.

http://www.omri.org/complete_company.pdf

at Wal Mart i saw they are carrying some organic lines of seed starting mix and potting soil. i don't recall the names, i read on the back that it is packaged exclusively for them and so i passed on it... aMiracle Grow also had a more extensive line there, with some organic...

I am deeply suspicious of anything "organic" at Walmart. My mom, who had to switch to organic gardening techniques when she moved in with me (and is really trying, bless her) came home with something from Walmart that was labeled "Organic Mix"-- she took this as meaning that it was potting soil mix that was organic, but they meant that it was organic mixed with non-organic fertilizers. It even had a warning (in minuscule print, of course) that if you wanted to know the heavy metal content of the soil, you should check their website!

I agree with tinabeana about checking the OMRI website--I didn't know they had one (thanks for the link!) , I just checked the labels for their seal. I usually to use potting soil without any fertilizers so I can add what I want when I want.

Personally I don't much care for Black Gold's constistency. I just sucked it up and am mixing diatomaceous earth with my Metro mix.

The OMRI website is absolutely awesome! The link above is for the crop suppliers list (dirt, fertilizers, etc), but if you go to the site proper they have a small DB of organic seed providers and the seeds they have available. Based on what I saw it's not completely up to date, it it's still pretty handy.

Black Gold is my second choice to try simply because of price: the Dr. Q's is a much better price. Out of curiosity, what didn't you like about the consistency?

And regarding 'organic' labeling: anything that is a plant or animal product is organic material chemically speaking, but that doesn't make it an organically produced item in the sense of NOP standards. Not that that's a bad thing, just can be confusing to so many consumers.

I haven't (yet!) seen anyone labeling things as organic based on that criteria (in the chemistry sense, "organic" just refers to anything that has carbon molecules in it, so many petroleum based products could also be considered organic by that definition, not just things from plants and animals...although technically speaking petroleum used to be plants and animals millions of years ago!). The products I've seen that are misleading are the ones that put in a few organic-approved ingredients but then mix in synthetic fertilizer to bring the numbers up, then call it "organic based" or other things along those lines.

Well, I have seen a few companies that have taken "organic" now to mean carbon-based rather in the sense of following organic farming practices--For example, another product that confused my mom was labeled as "organic based" and was really just a bunch of chemicals thrown in with some manure!

That "organic based" claim has nothing to do with being carbon based, what they're doing is starting with something like manure that is considered an organic fertilizer (although who knows if the manure actually came from cows that were raised organically or not) then added a bunch of synthetic fertilizer on top of it. But since there's some manure in there, they call it "organic based". That is one of the more common types of claims/products that I'm seeing pop up and I think it's very misleading, if you're someone who reads labels really carefully and knows a lot about things like this then you'll pick up on the fact that it's not even remotely an organic product, but for most people who don't know as much or don't take the time to really understand the labels it's very confusing and misleading. Personally I always look for the OMRI seal, it's a pretty safe bet if that's on there that the stuff is OK, and if the seal's not there then I know I have to do a lot more homework on it before I would consider using it.

Yeah, I recently gave my mom a little tutorial on reading the labels. It just makes me mad, because she is a sweet and trusting older person with hardly any organic gardening education, but who is trying to do the right thing--exactly the kind of consumer certain companies are trying to take advantage of, and are making big bucks doing it, while taking business away from the smaller, truly organic and far more ethical companies.