Almost too much of a good thing

Scott Bar, CA(Zone 6a)

This plant was salvaged from the dumpster as a half rotted bulb 6 years ago and has flowered every year since. I gave away the first three offsets then put it in a 10 inch pot and let it go. My question, after seeing the other posts about red Hipps, is what are the indicators to discriminate between them. I have no idea which cultivar this is and am just getting more confused as I search. I will follow this with some closer shots and hopefully get some direction from you pros--:o)

Thanks,

Bill

Thumbnail by rockminer
Scott Bar, CA(Zone 6a)

The base of the petals are deep purple---

Thumbnail by rockminer
Scott Bar, CA(Zone 6a)

Flowers are an average of 7 inches across---

Thumbnail by rockminer
Bessemer City, NC(Zone 7b)

Rockminer~

Congratulations on bringing that cast-off bulb back from certain death and making it prosper! It is a spectacular red whatever it is.

Correctly identifying specific hybrids can be daunting and no group more challenging than those that are a solid color. Looking on the web for pictures to help can add more confusion since we don't necessarily know if we are seeing a correctly ID plant or a name applied that seemed "close enough". No doubt you have heard of mis-identified hybrids being received from vendors quite often. That doesn't help things at all.

Trying to match the color without a standard is next to impossible.

So what factors or characteristics can we use with your red (or other solids)?

Flower size, number of flowers per scape, tepal shape, overall bloom shape or form, attitude of the bloom (held upwards, straight out or drooping), pedicel length (the little stem the flower is on) and its color, if any, scape height (though this can be so variable as to not help much), and sometimes pollen color. There are other characteristic that might be checked, but we have plenty to work with here.

We also need a good description of what it is we are checking our flower against. Until veronica Read's book appeared, there was next to nothing with much detail. Even her descriptions could stand some filling out here and there. Sometimes the descriptions by vendors or distributors are sorely lacking but for a general sketch that adds nothing more than what we already know.

I went round and round with a small-flowered red that was supposed to be Pamela but wasn't, as far as I could tell. In trying determine what it was, the red pedicel color was most important. The telling factor was the high bloom count. As best as I can determine, the 6-8 blooms per scape make it 'Top Choice', which seems to be a "mistake" by the grower not the seller, since they didn't offer Top Choice at the time.

So what might you have?

What if I say, I'm as uncertain as you, maybe more so? Read has 21 hybrids listed in the "Red Large Singles" section, and that is from about 4 years ago. The thing I find most frustrating in trying to use her written descriptions is a lack of real color references. There are horticultural color charts that might be referenced but what Read gives are written ones. I often wonder if I know a color by the same name as someone else... do I know when I am seeing scarlet and not bight crimson etc...

So Read has "currant red", "orient red", "orange red", "raspberry red", "purple red", "wine red", "blood red", "dark red", "blackcurrant red" "bright red", "vermilion", and the succinct "red" as colors in the large red group.

I haven't seen most of the reds she lists, so I might miss out on seeing something in your flower that I would recognize if I had grown them myself. And in picking one over another, I may tend to choose from those I have actually seen, and that might discount a good possibility.

Anywho--it looks very much like the classic 'Red Lion'. The superb full, open, rounded form matches RL with its "Leopoldii" background and is also known for its vigor. The bloom count is usually 4 but sometimes there are only three buds per scape on mature bulbs. There's nice blushing on the pedicels, (not actual pigmentation), and that happens with RL when it gets good strong light. RL averages @7" across but is frequently just shy of that.

Again, there are other possibilities and maybe someone will see it as another cultivar and give their thoughts here too. I know I could be mistaken.

If you knew that the bulb was a cast-off from a garden center and could get a look at what they were stocking just prior to your finding the bulb, that might easily settle the question.

And yes, I have gone that far in order to ID a bulb! :-)

R.



Bessemer City, NC(Zone 7b)

Meant to include this page with Red Lion on it:

http://www.tinkersgardens.com/flowers/

East Texas, United States(Zone 8a)

rockminer, as to your title "almost too much of a good thing" , I say NEVER

I enjoy my modest amaryllis collection, but I dream of having a spot with nothing BUT Red Lions, 10-20 all planted together.

Yours look like RL, they are beautiful.

Scott Bar, CA(Zone 6a)

Raydio,

Thanks for all the great information and the link. I was leaning toward Red Lion myself but then I start questioning my decisions and looking at the other pics and seem to go backwards rather than forward. Whatever the final result as to name, the joy of the lushness of this one is more than worth the effort!! It came out of a dumpster at an RV park so there is no help there--It just makes me more observant when I empty my trash!

I crossed this one with striatum but have another year or two to see results. The young plants are quite different in their appearance when seedlings from the striatum pods are set next to the plants from the pods of this plant. Not sure how that works but am anxiously waiting to find out.

Thanks again for your response. It looks like I'll have to buy another reference--lol.

Bill

Scott Bar, CA(Zone 6a)

Vossner,

That was kind of a "tongue-in-cheek" title. I was thrilled when this sent up 3 scapes with 4 flowers each. Thanks for your thought on ID. I need all the input I can get :o).

Bill

Plano, TX

vossner-you mentioned a collection of amaryllis--is it outdoors? i guess you could say i have a collection now because i kept buying them at christmas time and ended up with about 8 or so--they all bloomed and now i have moved them outdoors--i am wondering how they will do outside and if they will bloom --

East Texas, United States(Zone 8a)

bill, I was just offering my girlie perspective. You can never have enough shoes OR amaryllises, lol.

Linda, I grow all mine inground and have not lost any ever but I will say that if we have a warm spell in Jan and they start budding, then get a cold spell in Feb, I may lose the blossoms. Hasn't been much of a problem, but it has happened. I tried planting a RL inground in our 2nd prop. in E TX, zone 8b, and it really didn't like it, so I brought it back to Houston.

I'm not sure they'd be suited for inground planting in Plano. I do know you could pot them up and sit them outdoors, then bring them during cold season. Depending on the cultivar, once potted outside, some will rebloom in summer, and some in fall. Mariava in VA recently posted something to this effect.

Plano, TX

thanks for such a good and quick answer--this winter has been so mild but we do get some colder ones too--the ones i bought said red lion and apple blossom but some looked different --i think somehow another type got in the mix! they were all so much fun to have blooming--

East Texas, United States(Zone 8a)

I would say RL and AB are about the hardiest and not as hard to replace, so maybe you could experiment w/ one of each and plant inground. You could also mulch heavily in anticipation of a very cold spell. I would take a chance and plant a couple inground, if I were you.

Mine are in full, brutal TX sun and they like it. If your soil is heavy clay, you really should amend your soil or at least use some nice potting soil in the planting hole. I am always afraid of rotting my bulbs, so I watch my watering carefully. Other than that, they are on their own. As to fertilization, I use an all-purpose for the entire area, so the hippies get some nourishment by default.

Plano, TX

i will do the same then--what types do you grow? how many?

Solingen, Germany(Zone 7a)

Congratulations Bill -
your knight star lily shows a fantastic performance, as if it wanted to thank you for rescueing it.
My vote goes clearly to "Red Lion" because of the intense but not deeply red color, its extremely dark pigmented bases of the flowers and the manner it folds up its very broad segments, which give a "crumples" appearance of the buds and later, of the backside of the flowers. And, this hybrid is a rather good producer of offsets.
Freshly emerging leaves of Red Lion are rather dark pigmented, particularly the tip, did you observe this - it would be a further indication. In fact, young leaves of "Red Lion" are rather particularly pigmented.

Scott Bar, CA(Zone 6a)

Haweha,

Thanks for your comment. Yes, it shows all the signs you mention--regular offsets, more pigmented leaves, etc. Further study of web sites convinces me it is indeed 'Red Lion.' I have other Hipps that are fussy about flowering and offsetting but this one is totally reliable. When it goes outside in the summer it becomes quite large--24" to 30" leaves up to 3" wide and very dark green with a dark stripe on the undersides. Guess I'll keep t--lol!

Bill

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