How do you plant???

I always plant by the farmer's almanac and I was wondering if all of you do, too. I've done a little experiment with this and all I can say is that when I didn't plant by the almanac, I had the worst gardens ever. What determines your planting dates?

Pete2

I downloaded a pdf document from the Univ. of TN for planting dates. They give a rough timeframe for planting stuff in the East TN area. For example, they'll say to plant peas anytime in February.

I then take this data and crossreference it with my gardener's almanac to find the best day in February to plant my peas.

In other words, I'm doing the same thing as you. :) All my plantings are scheduled according to the moon, but I'm also staggering some planting times away from that to see what kind of difference it makes. I'm journaling it all for my future reference.

dave

Around here, spring can come as early as the end of March or as late as mid-May. Although I do consider sources such as the Almanac, I go mostly by local folklore. Native Americans and old farmers around here all suggest planting when one certain mountain peak no longer has snow on it. That's the rule I followed last year, and I was amazed with the results. Of course, it makes it difficult to know when to start plants indoors for transplanting later. I will probably plant as soon as the ground is workable.

A combination of things.

Whenever possible, I use the guidelines established by tradition: peas on Valentine's Day, Potatoes on Good Friday, etc.

Barring that, there's a chart put out by a local seed house that's generally helpful.

Mostly, however, I go by the lessons learned in previous years.

BTW, Pete, if you grow medicinal herbs, the phase of the moon is important. They should be planted, for insance, on a waxing moon, and harvested on a waning moon.

Wow! I didn't know that, Brook. Besides producing healthy plants, how does the moon play into it? Do the plants have more concentrated medicinal properties?

Pete2

I tend to go simply by the weather conditions. And the changing of the clock. An extra hour of daylight makes a big difference.

Please tell me that last one was meant to pull our leg.....

other options.

Stokes Seed cataloge suggests that you plant out when the soil temp is at a certain point. IE tomatoes when the soil temp is at 50F at 8AM in in the morning.

There is another school of thought called phenology.
IE using nature to help nature.

IE Transplant cole crops and plant root crops when oak leaves are about the size of a mouses/squirels ear.

Transplant tomatoes when dogwood blossoms fall.

Transplant peppers when peonies are in full bloom.
(plant corn and limas too)

Basices, Certain things in nature don't happen until the soil temps are right. If you use Mom nature as a guide
odds of failure are smaller.

Byron

Pete,

There are two schools of thought on the use of medicinals. One is that they are simply plants that happen to have healing properties. The other is that the plants, themselves, have spiritual values that contribute to their powers.

Those who subscribe to the second viewpoint have a whole lexicon of "rules" that they use to grow and harvest their herbs.

Planting on the waxing moon means the power of the moon pulls the plant into a healthy growth mode. Harvesting the plants on a waning moon means the moon's power will pull the healing properties into the remedy being mixed.

This supposes, of course, that you will be using the fresh herbs right after harvest.

But even the dried herbs retain more of their healing power if they were harvested at the proper time.

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. Personally, I believe the moon affects so very many things...why not one more? Thanks for explaining, Brook.

Pete2

I use common sense, the weather and the weather forecast.
I also take "tradition" and past experiences into account. However, if tradition says that we plant tomatoes tomorrow and the weather man predicts a frost in 3 days well then I go with the weather man. I think Byron's method is about the best.
In my humble opinion.
I must say that I totally reject the idea of using the moon and/or the zodiac to decide when I plant. Why you ask.
Astrology and the zodiac claim to be able to tell you what kind of person you are based on the stars. As a lover of science I ask this: When an animal is born under the sign of say libra does that animal display the signs of a libra? Why then do zodiac "personalities" apply only to humans? Because from a very small age we are told that cancers act this way and libras that way. If you tell someone something enough times they will believe it. People say I'm a _____ and that's how _____ act. So over the course of time it becomes self fulfilling.
The same can be said for people that believe in planting by the zodiac/farmers almanac. If for some reason they don't plant by it one year. They expect to have a poor gardening year and therefore that is what they get.
I ask this: I think all would agree that a plant is pretty much a plant right? Why is the phase of the moon important for planting and harvesting medicinal herbs? Do tomatoes taste different if planted by the moon phase? Do they taste different when harvested under different moon phases?
Science shows that the moon and sun have an affect on gravity, however the affect is SUPER small.
I don't want this to be a religous discussion but as a christian I don't beleive that the moon and a dozen star groupings out of the trillions and trillions decide my personality or the growth and taste of my tomatoes.
Show me in HARD science the errors of my way. But, it must work for ALL animals and ALL plants in both hemispheres.
If you plant by the zodiac do you also test germinate seeds by the zodiac? If you were going to buy seeds and the germination rate test was done during the worst possible time (zodiac wise) and the germination rate was say 25% would you buy them? Is the problem bad seeds or the zodiac?
When you check germination rates from companies do you ask zodiac wise when the seeds were tested?
I don't worry about breaking a mirror, I don't throw a pinch of salt over my shoulder when I drop some, I don't knock on wood, and I don't plant by the zodiac.
I will step down off my soap box now. Your Next tell us what you think.

Sari,

I don't believe in all this science stuff. My children tell me that a plane flies because the molecules in the air over the wing travel faster to catch up with the molecules in the air under the wing which don't have so far to go because the top of the wing is curved, and this causes lift. I don't see why the molecules at the top want to catch up. Perhaps they're happy just doing their own thing. Seems to me a lot of science is just things obey these rules because these are the rules we've laid down for them to obey - sort of self-fulfilling. Maybe not all, but I don't think we really know enough to say THIS IS HOW THE WORLD WORKS, and it's pretty arrogant of us to think we do.

I just go with the feel of things - if it's a nice day, and it's reasonable to expect it to stay that way, and the plant looks strong enough to make it, it's a good time to put it in the garden.

Off my soap box now.

i always say "the mind is a powerful thing"

Sari,

You could write a history of the world consisting entirely of how "science" and "scientists" were wrong. Most scientific advances, in fact, have been that---a modern scientist proving how the older bunch were wrong.

Thus, you could make a case that all of science is build on a foundation of sand.

Question: Why do you bring up gravity, particularly, in terms of the sun and moon? Don't you think tidal stress has as much effect on things---perhaps even more effect---than gravity?

You are right about belief affecting things. Not just gardening, but virtually all facets of human endeaver. I you believe something is right, that very belief effects the outcome.

If you believe that the moon, or the farmer's almanac, or dancing naked during the vernal equinox will make your plants grow better, than they will. If you believe these things have no effect, than they won't. The negatives apply just as well. If you believe that working in the garden during your period will harm certain plants, then they will die. If I, on the other hand, disbelieve, then it will have no effect on them at all.

Finally, I would like to offer my sympathy. It must be sad, indeed, to live in a world in which there is no magic.

I plant by the weather and soil conditions ; it has worked for the last 40+ years so I must be doing something correct. The Farmer's Almanac is merely good reading but do not take it too serious ; that was my also my ForeFathers advice . Our family has been farming in this area for over 100+ years . The true magic does not lie in Full Moons or Zodiac hocus pocus , merely the magic of stored DNA and the germination / creationary process .Mother Earth AND her creations are GOOOOOD :) Discuss this all you want , about the techniques and personal views , but the bottom line is this " Plant the seed in the soil and watch it flourish under proper growing conditions " Nothing too difficult about that is there ??? ( just keeping the weeds out :)) End of subject . Rock On !!

Yeah, Cooch,

But a weed is just a plant out of place. Neither good nor bad except from one's viewpoint.

Echinecea growing wild in my tomato bed, for instance, would be a weed. But when I've got a cold working, I'm sure glad to have those weeds.

Mary,
I totally agree that man will never have all of the answers to the world. But, if molecules make plans fly because they are doing their thing then why don't bikes, cars, dogs, cats or humans... fly? Why must certain shapes be used for wings? Are the molecules attracted to those shapes? Do those shapes somehow make molecules drunk behave differently?

Brook,
The tide is caused by gravity. The following comes from pages 224 and 225 of the "Old Farmer's Almanac". In order for someone to believe in planting by the moon/zodiac one must beleive everything behind the zodiac. Like (page 224) " A qualified astrologer can study the current relationship of the planets and your own personal birth chart to assist you in the best possible timing for carrying out your plans". IF this were true then astrologers would rule the world as they would know the best and worst times to do everything. How is it that my birth sign affects the zodiac today? On page 225 they give dates for hair cut dates, entertaining, camping, planting above ground crops, planting below ground crops, destroying pest & weeds, pouring concrete, pollinating, breeding, slaughtering and more. I have slaughtered/killed chickens, squirrels, grouse, rabbits, deer and more. They all stayed dead and tasted good. I kill garden pest whenever I see them and they all stay dead, seven kills them dead every day of the month. If there was a best day to breed then childred would be conceived and born in bunches not spread out over a month. Concrete is poured everyday and there is no difference. Unless you beleive and follow all of the zodaic in your everyday live than why do you beleive it works for plants.
Brook in disagreeing with my previous posting you have made my point. You said "If you believe something is right, that very belief effects the outcome". People "think" the zodiac works. Belief in something doesn't make it true. Some children believe they can fly, can they?
How & why do you believe that "dancing naked during the vernal equinox will make your plants grow better"? Wasn't that done as a celebration of the changing of the season, not to make your plants grow better. I might be wrong on this but I believe it was first practiced by pagans that believed in tree gods.
Don't feel sorry for me. All of my magic comes from a most AWESOME GOD.

I used to jump the gun and now I wait a little before thinking the first warm day is spring planting time. I had a lot of failures when I was impatient. The later planted things soon catch up anyway.

Most of the fun goes out of gardening when I use books and calendars. I just try to plant things after the last frost and certain other plants that need a warmer soil a few weeks later. Most things I plant survive this.
But I do think it is fun to also try the Almanac if you have time.
I usually have so many things to get into the ground that I don't have time to read all the reasons for planting now or waiting.
It is interesting to read about others ideas though and I am always open to trying new things.
Windy

Astrology!?
so 1 in 12 of us all have the same personality the world over!? Prince Charles, my buddy and I are all Scorpios yet we are all different.

the world is split in half across the equator so when it's summer in the north it's winter in the south, right?

so when the farmer's almanac tell all scorpios it's time to plant your seeds one half always loose out as the other side of the planet is in winter.

I look forward to this thread over the next few days.

I agree with Windy, most of the fun goes out of it if you have to obey 'the rules'.

Sari, I don't think molecules are attracted to shapes, just to other molecules, or repelled. What they can do has something to do with how many of them there are and the space they're in and the temperature. I don't personally believe in molecules, but my son's a Materials Engineer and his girlfriend's a Physicist and they take them very seriously. I prefer to commune with nature.

After all the posts on this subject, all fascinating for a newbie like myself, I think I'll stick with the practical and magical ways, not that I'm criticizing anyone. I do think that science tends to over-analyze everything, and will not except things as they are without emperical proof. Too bad! If it works, don't fix it. I know the scriptures, too. The people in it grew crops, and I wonder how many of them consulted with scientists to determine when/how to grow their crops. As a matter of fact, many of the kings therein had the best "scientists" around in their employ, and there is no evidence that they faired any better than those guided by spirit and experience, as evidenced by the disappearance of so many of their civilizations. The fact is also that people in tune with nature don't need science to grow anything, and most often have a wider knowledge of the plants in their domain than anyone. If I was to want to know how to grow something in a new area, it would be the locals who had been doing it all along, not the scientists, I would consult.
I've learned an awful lot from this subject, and would be extremely interested in getting views on it from gardeners from the southern hemisphere. It would be cool to have opinions from them on this as well. We should try to get some members from that part of the world. It wouldn't be too hard to do either, as widely spoken as English is, and there are several on this list that speak other languages (Portuguese myself).
Now I'll get out from behind my pulpit.
Love/Light

This is a good thread, great ideas and interesting views. I have a Tilth Orginization book from my area that gives good information on planting times and exceptions, mostly common sense like soil and night temperatures. They are thorough as they give indoor transplant dates as well as outside and cold frame plant dates. It is my planting Bible and the results? They got it right!

I like this thread, the different viewpoints. It was making me nuts trying to remember or keep track of when seeds should or shouldn't be planted according to the almanac. I'm new to gardening and I wanted to, desperately, but the few years I've been here I realize it's much better (for us) to go with mother nature. On our mountain we could plant at the end of March some years or not until the very end of May during others. DH goes by what he has learned from the local farmers. He has gardened our plot much longer than I and he says "as long as there's no frost (or threat of) just plant it and it will grow" and I'm happy to say he's right =o)

I have planted and harvested and weeded by the moon and it has worked for me. last spring I weeded the shallots on a great weeding time and no weeds came back for 8 weeks. I mean none. It was like hitting the area with agent organge or something. I have used the Stella natura with decent luck. I also believe if you are in a bad mood when planting the seeds will not germinate as well. I have had zero germantation from doing this and when I replanted the same seeds on a different day have gotten 90% germination. I have also found this to be true if planting at a bad time according to the Stella Natura (which is THE zodiac guide to planting).

FYI astrology was THE science of its day which lasted about 5 thousand years. Modern science displaced astrology in the seventheenth century or thereabouts. Astrology is still taken very seriously by millions of humans. Some of Ronald Reagan's presidency was based on what Nancy's astrologer said.

You are saying that your bad mood caused 100% of your seeds to not germinate? And when you were in a good mood that 90% of the same seeds germinated? The U.S. produces a huge percentage of the world's food. Do you think that farmers have time or the ability to follow the zodiac? No they must plant and harvest over many many days and the soil conditions and the weather are the major factors. Do you think farmers only plant seeds when they are in a good mood? Most likely they plant in a bad mood because they are worried about making money that year. Commercial nurseries don't have the time to follow the zodiac. These I would submit are the real and most experienced group of gardeners and they don't follow the zodiac. Why then are they so successful at growing crops? Science! no myth.

I believe your story about the shallots and "weeds". However it had nothing to do with the zodiac. Even after your weeding the soil still contains "weed" seeds and there is the possiblity/probability of "weed" seeds blowing into areas around your shallots. But according to you NONE of these seeds germinated or came up from roots for 8 weeks. Now allow me to disprove the zodiac by your own statements and those of a fellow zodiac follower.

Brook states "But a weed is just a plant out of place. Neither good nor bad except from one's viewpoint." How does the zodiac know what seeds to make grow? According to Brook there is no such thing as a weed just a plant out of place. Does the zodiac know that all you wanted to grow there was shallots? Does the zodiac say ok Ohiorganic "weeded" the shallots on the best "weeding day" so we won't let any seeds germinate in that area. For the sake of argument lets say I plant potatoes. before the potatoes come up I need to weed them and I do so on the good zodaic weeding day. According to you no more weeds will come up. Well how does the zodiac know to kill/stop germination of every plant except my potatoes? Because as Brook stated a weed os just a plant out of place. If you say it knows not to kill potatoes what if the potatoes are coming up in my carrots? By your own statements the zodiac must be a god or the zodiac must not be true. Because only a god has that kind of control over life.
Again I ask why must medicinal herbs must be planted and harvest by the moon for their healing properties to be the best. AND why that doesn't apply to the taste of my tomatoes. I can tell you why. Because it is very easy for the common person to disprove that myth in their own gardens with tomatoes. I find it interesting that none of the zodiac follower can answer any of my questions...

For now I will work in the garden when I'm sad, as working in the garden always makes me happy. Boy, the questions I could raise with that! Like if I get mad at my husband half way down a row of beans I'm planting will only half the row come up?

I JUST HAD A REVALATION I NOW KNOW WHAT'S IN AREA 51!

I just realized that science is WRONG! There is no such thing as crosses and hybrids.
Burpee and the rest of the seed producers have secret facilites in area 51. What I now believe they do is plant and harvest by the zodiac. So say a "Christmas Grape" tomato is really just a tomato born a sagittarius with a raising leo and a falling pisces. And the "Fourth of July" tomato is a cancer with a falling aries, a falling libra and a steady to raising virgo with a little taurus thrown in.

I think when it comes to gardening, we all have our own idiosyncrasies that's for sure. Most gardeners have found what works best for them and what doesn't. I say, "Stay with what works for you."

Pete2