40 chromosome siberians X versicolor..can it be done?

I created a bunch of interspecies beardless iris crosses last summer and now have loads of germinating offspring. Some of the crosses were pseudacorus X versicolor, setosa X versicolor, hookeri X siberica (both 28 and 40 chromosome), setosa X siberica, versicolor X siberica (tetraploids) and both a forrestii and delavayi hybrid X versicolor. The latter produced lots of seeds and seedlings, but I cannot find any info on such a cross. Maybe an abberant bee visited my emasculated versicolors! Does anyone know if if 40 chromosome siberians can be crossed to versicolor? (I know about sibcolors, but they use tetrapolid 28 chromosome siberians)

Look towards the west. We have trouble even growing the 40c. Versicolor is across the continent so maybe someone westward has tried.

IrisMA, The northeast is a good place for growing some of the 40 chromosome sibs, such as chrysographes. They grow best where summers are cool, and need a lot of water and acid soil, making the northeast one of the best places to grow them.




Todd,

I can't answer your question, but your crosses are very exciting.

Why would you think they would not cross? If a sib with 28 chromosomes would cross with a versicolor with 108, why not with one with 40 or a tet with 56? Just curious. I don't see what would prevent them from crossing if they cross with the 28 ones.

I would love to hear any of your thoughts on this, and please keep us posted with your crosses.

As you can probably tell, this is very exciting to me.

Thanks,

Polly

Todd,

Just wondering. Have you tried any of the pseudacorus and ensata crosses?

I have some pseudacorus X versicolor tht should bloom this summer. Can;t wait.

inanda

Polly, a versicolor cannot be crosses to a 28 chromo sib (at least as far as I know), but can be crossed to the tetraploid 56. 40 versus 108 may be too large a gap. I thik my main problem is that I put forrestii pollen onto versicolor rather than the other way around. I'm not sure what that will do but from what I read, the tetra sib should be the female when doing sibcolor crosses. Likewise, sibtosa crosses should have the siberica as the pod parent. This summer I'll make sure the 40-chromosome sib is the mother rather than the father. Anyway, next year I'll find out what my cross in question will look like!

I currently do not have any ensata in my collection. here, the ensata bloom after all the rest have passed so unless I use old pollen, I cannot cross anything onto ensata. However, I do have some of Huber's open-pollinated rensata and biversata that should bloom this summer. I'll see what I can do with them...I wonder if anyone has crossed a pseudo onto such ensata X versicolor crosses?

Inanda, did you make the pseudo X versi yourself? I have two such crosses germinating now....pseudo X versicolor 'Kerminsina' (10 seedlings) and pseudo X versicolor (pale blue wild form similar to 'Between the Lines') (5 seedlings)

I'm really curious if my sibcolors from last year bloom this summer. The crosses were I. versicolor 'Kerminsina' X I. siberica 'Silver Edge' and kerminsina X Four-fold White.

This years sibcolors just germinating are kerminsina X Ruffled Velvet and my pale versicolor X Four-fold white. I think my most bizarre cross last summer was a X robusta between virginica Dottie's Double X versicolor Murrayana

However, my most exciting cross was a pale lavender-pink hookeri X siberica 'White Dove'...with any luck I'll get a pale lavender dwarf sibtosa. I found the lavender-pink hookeri two summers ago growing wild among the standard blues. I used that one a lot this past summer when making my sibtosa crosses.

Lots of fun!

I crossed versicolor x Frost End (a Huber) both ways successfully.

Cristata x versicolor both ways but forgot to collect the seed. By the time I remembered, garden helpers had taken the seed pods. Will move cristata back into my own house garden this year to take more care this coming season.

The cristata was collected near Ruby, on the Yukon and versicolor in New Hampshire and some here in Manitoba on edge of Devil's Creek.

A found hookeri - what bliss. to go walking locally and find treasures. You must have so many wonderful plants in your garden. There are people here who go plant hunting every year - NLFD or Labrador, China, All over.

I go looking for lilies every year along the roads and verges. Have never found any in Manitoba. I might have been too early because a couple of years ago was driving from Jasper to Edmonton and........
almost went off the road. l. philidelphicum everywhere. It was like an alpine meadow, a blaze of colours. Have always wanted to go to NFLD. In the next life perhaps. No wonder so many tourists go to the Rockies.
inanda

Hope you both will post some pictures of these exciting crosses.

Thanks for the info, Todd. I was under the impression a 28 chromosome sib had already been crossed with a versicolor. But I must be mistaken. I did know the tetraploid sibs had been crossed with versicolors. I understood these were called versibs.

Todd, could you explain :

"(I know about sibcolors, but they use tetrapolid 28 chromosome siberians)" What are sibcolors, I've never heard this term? And you're referring to tet sibs? I'm confused (natural state).

Thank you!

As it happens, I've never heard the term versibs! Tamburg, the German iris breeder, works on these interspecies crosses and he refers to versicolor X siberica as sibcolors. The setosa X siberica are sibtosa (apparently hookeri X siberica are also sibtosa), thne there are calsibes...californica X siberica (wish I could do those..there are some beautiful bybrids but not hardy here). Here is a link to his different hybrid groups..it explains all! (and was my inspiration to start working with these)
http://www.tamberg.homepage.t-online.de/homep3e.htm

Todd,

This site refers to versibs

http://www.pilmore.com/PIGSEED2.html

I'm pretty sure it was a SIGNA mailing where I first heard the term.

But thank you for the website.

Please, please post any pictures of your crosses.

Thank you,

Polly

And those pseudata on that page are the ones I was referring to in another thread. I think they are gorgeous. Apparently the person that intro'd them Hiroshi Shimizu now has over 1,000 crosses. The pseudacorus would not bloom at the same time anywhere as the JIs, so you would have to save the pollen from one or the other in the fridge or freezer.

Here is a picture of the pale versicolor I found two summers ago. I call it 'Anchor Point'...that's the nearby community where I found it!

and here is the lavender hookeri...I used both of these in last summer's crosses.

Here is my chrysographes (dark form) X bulleyana cross. The bulleyana came from seeds collected in Yunnan.

My hookeri X siberica 'Moonsilk'...obviously yellow is recessive!

hookeri X siberica 'Sparkling Rose'

hookeri X siberica 'Silver Edge' had the greatest variation. Here was the palest hybrid.

this was my favourite from the cross.

Those are all really nice, Todd.

I really, really like the chrysographes X bulleyana.

Will you be registering and introducing these?

this was the darkest. The petals are too rounded for my taste but I like the colour.

That is my eventual hope. I just joined the AIS and Siberian Group, so we'll see where it goes from there. I would certainly like to see my hybrids go beyond my garden!

I like that color too.

Please do pursue introducing them.

Oh heaven, Todd. Very, very excited to see what you are doing again. Glad your goal is to get these out into the world!!

Todd Extremely nice
chrysographes X bulleyana just love it
here is a couple of my versibs
So many flowers it is just wonderful because they bloom forever
this one is my favorite with 9 to 10 buds, hardy, does very well
Anita

Love that colour! Is that your own cross?

No Got the seeds from SIGNA
My own cross is in the pot now so I do not know the germination yet
this is a sibling to the red
a little taller
but not as dramatic

I got some versitosa, biversata and rensata from SIGN last year that should bloom this year. Looking forward to seeing if there is anything unusual.

Todd, I love your work! The results of these crosses are truly a work of art! I'm smitten with both "SPARKLING ROSE", and (believe it or not) the darkest one with the rounded petals! :-) I hope you DO register and introduce them!

I'd love to see more - - if and when you have more to show. It is always so nice to see Anita's seed results, too. Lovely!

~Margie

I just got my SIGNA seeds for this year. The most interesting is a pseudata X virginica...that could be really funky!

Great!! I love funky! :-)