Last summer my large, heavy Duchess of Edinburg (started spring 2002 as 4" bare root slip, now 6ft+) took a 'spill' when the weathered ties that were holding her on the fence post gave way during a very windy storm. Worse, she had been planted against the fence and behind a rose bush so when she fell away from her moorings, the Duchess tumbled head long into the rose bush. A few years ago this clematis had really taken off so we are talking about a huge, heavy, sprawling mass of vines which at the time of the storm were loaded down with large, double blooms. Not knowing quite what to do, how to get all those clematis vines out of the rose bush again without damaging either of them, or even how to get back there to tie the clematis up again with getting myself shredded by the rose thorns, I just left it there.
Now, I'm desperately trying to get the garden cleaned up before spring - which arrives here next week. Can anyone offer advice as to how I might handle this mess? The clematis has already started to break dormancy having small tufts of green sprouting from the nodes, and is quite thoroughly entangled in the rose. I've decided to sacrifice the rose. It's a white one and I think a dark red or even a pink would look much better with the white clematis. Still, as the clematis vines are so small and delicate it is unlikely that I will be able to separate all of those vines from the rose without breaking them. As much as it pains me to do so, I am seriously considering just cutting the clematis back to about 18-20in high. That would free it from the rose entirely, and permit me to tie it up again and just start over. Advice?
Thanks in advance for any light you might be able to shed on this delima. (PS. beware that green Velcro plant tape. As I have learned, after a few years it starts to decompose allowing its contents to topple.)
Seeking Advice, How to Handle A Spill
I guess you could start with the top of the clematis by cutting away the rose canes, then work your way downward. It might not be as bad as you're thinking right now. If you cut the canes first you'll have them flopping towards you and weighing down the clematis stems.
If you work it right, and have luck on your side, you could save both the rose and the clematis.
Good luck. We had a very tall Jackmanii fall over when the copper trellis was whipped by a storm and the top broke but we salvaged it. Of course, it's a different pruning class than yours but several people do cut back a Class 2 and it just means blooms will come about six weeks later than normal.
Hi pirl,
I was out there today working/cleaning that bed. I got to the clematis shortly before dark. I worked with it a bit, and found it to be a rather hopeless and unmanageable mess. Is it just me? I find clematis vines to be rather delicate, especially this time of year when they are dormant. The 2 are so deeply embedded and my ability to work with them is further hampered by the fact that I can only approach them from the area in front of the rose - which means I'm looking at the top of the fallen clematis.
I'm going back out there tomorrow to finish the job, and I suspect that I will end up cutting them both back rather hard. If I cut it back to about 2ft I gather that it will live but will take a while to grow back to its former size. Is that correct? Then again, I guess such severe pruning should eventually produce an even more dense vine. In my yard this one is often 1st and last to bloom and tends to have a few flowers throughout most of the summer. From what you said, I gather that even if cut back hard it will still likely bloom this summer just a bit later than usual. That will be ok.
Thanks for the info.
I had to cut back one in pruning class 2 and was surprised to see how fast it grew back. I was thrilled to have it bloom (same height as the year before) but just six weeks later when I appreciated it even more since many of the others had finished already.
Good luck and please post when you're done with the job.
Thanks, pirl. Hope I have similar success with mine. I'll let you know how it works out. Thanks again for the advice - and just for being there for moral support. : )
You're quite welcome. Heck, I'll give you immoral support if you need that, too!!!
ROTF, pirl!!!
Edited because I'm 'rolling' not 'falling' on the floor
This message was edited Feb 10, 2008 9:33 AM
Happy trimming! No rolling or falling in the rose cuttings.
Just came back for my pruning sheers. It's a gorgeous day out today. Blue sky, sunny. Currently in the 60's with a projected high of 75F. Yesterday was my 1st chance to work in the garden since last summer. I really enjoyed it and am looking forward to a wonderful day outside in the fresh air again today.
I had a garden 'helper' cut all of my clematis down to the ground year before last and I was despairing but the vines came back better than ever. Just wanted you to know that no matter how much you have to lose of the vine, it's going to be OK.
Hi, doss,
I can relate to those "helpers" be they children, well meaning but non gardening spouses, and even the occasional hired hand. Before you mentioned this I had forgotten that a similar thing happened to me. After my knee surgery some 5 years ago, I was forced to hire someone to do some weeding and other upkeep in my garden for a while. As I lay in my bed gazing jealously out the window at this person 'playing' in my garden, I watched in horror as he grabbed my Blue Light Clematis which was not blooming at the time, snatched it up, and put it in his weed bag. I was heartbroken. By the end of the season it was back, same size as before if not larger and blooming like crazy. I had forgotten all about that incident.
Thanks for letting me know about your experience. You and pirl have helped to eliminate my concerns. I did loose the vast majority of the vines during cleanup. No doubt the problem of separating the rose from the clematis (from the weeds) was made all the worse by the fact that I didn't take care of it right away when it fell last summer. I've decided to add a support that it can climb and hang onto itself as a possible precaution against a repeat spill.
Thanks again!
Oops! Edited because sometimes Google spell-check does strange things to user names - like convert pirl to girl.
This message was edited Feb 12, 2008 1:40 AM
Your welcome! You'll have to post a photo of it when it's back in all of it's glory. :-)
Yes, please post a photo when it blooms.
Did you move the rose?
Will do!
As for the rose, as I have SO much to do and so little time left to do it (before the big spring explosion of growth), for now I just cut the rose back quite severely to get it out of the way. Hopefully I will have time later to come back and move it.
Yes, I know the feeling of lots to do, as we all do.
But surely, pirl, you haven't let your garden get as far behind in maintenance as I have mine. Mine was well on the way to jungle status. LOL
Also, the winter timeout is very short here. Things are already starting to bloom, and I just started my fall cleanup last weekend. Eeeek!
We never really made it to fall clean-up so when we had a few nice days I was working on that. My porch was the jungle with all the plants I hold over during winter so now that I've cleaned it and taken cuttings I feel more in control of the inside, not the outside.
Still a lot of plants to be moved to make way for more dahlias. I'm dreading the thought of all the digging.
Scutler, at least you're dealing with two plants that enjoy their haircuts. I have to say though, that I was a bit jealous of your 75 compared to my 25. How's Heidi and family?
Hi, venu209,
75? Wow! I had to go check my journal to see if you were actually talking about clematis. It's amazing how fast they can accumulate. I love the DG journal feature, but was I ever surprised when I 1st put all of my plants in there and saw some of those totals. It screams OCD. lol.
But its worth it because from early spring (about another week) until fall the backyard cottage garden is alive with color. It is a wonderfully relaxing and inspirational place to be. Every day there is always something new starting to open - or several things. Each morning I take a walk out there to get energized before work; I do the same thing each afternoon/evening to let go of the stress of the day. Often I see something new in the afternoon/evening that was not open that same morning. It fills me with all the wonder of a child again. Oops! Kinda' got carried away there! That will happen when you start dreaming of spring.
I'll bet your 25 are beautiful, and likely better tended than my 75, a few of which are currently listed as MIA I might add. Many of mine are very small still. Some haven't even bloomed yet as I started them from tiny, bare root pieces. When they all reach their full glory you folks may need to come with machetes to cut me out of my house.
Right now Ms Heidi is feeling a bit grumpy. I'm pretty sure she is incubating her next family, and as a result she has run all of the others off for now. I think they all got tired of her crankiness. But that's ok. It gives us some quiet time together before the new ones arrive. I can hardly wait to 'help' her raise a new brood. (Thanks for asking.)
Scutler, I was actually referring to our respective temperatures LOL. Although I probably do have about 25 clems. Do you really have 75 clems?? I think that puts you in the collector category, nothing wrong with that!
ROTFLOL!!! Oops!
When I was trying to figure out what you were referring to, I checked my journal (which is public) and sure enough I have exactly 75 clematis listed, although as previously mentioned several are listed as MIA. It's very difficult to believe that I have that many, especially since many are still quite small. I didn't start out to be a collector but I do think they make a lovely presence and I like the way that they make use of vertical space and tuck in so nicely around and even in/on other plants.
You had 25 DEGREES? Ouch! Our weather this past weekend was awesome. 80F on Saturday and 75F on Sunday with blue skies both days, wonderful days for working in the garden. It's a bit cool today, probably in the 50's or 60's but expected to go back up in the 70's tomorrow and through the weekend. Yay! However, while we have amazingly mild 'winters' we pay big time for that luxury come summer. If its 75-80F now, just imagine what it will be like in July and August!
(Blushing from my faux pas)
Scutler,
YOU are making me CRY!!! 75-80 degrees!! Oh my goodness!
We are freezing here again. We have 17 degrees. All my plants are frozen!! And so are we!!
But we are Clematis dreaming! Any one here get some new clems. ordered for spring??
How many??
You've certainly had a cool winter in Michigan. We're at a big 39 now but I'm not complaining. If the sun remains shining I'll go out later when it hits 45.
I've ordered Josephine, Anna Louise, Rooguchi and Crystal Fountain but will be ordering more this week. That Paul Farges looks nice in photos so that's on my consideration list.
Oh, jaz,
My sympathies on the weather. Don't worry, we get ours in the summer when temps soar to 100+ with 98% humidity and a "feels like" temp of up to 114F. In summer it can be near 90 at 3AM. But for now it is quite nice. Still ranging between 70-80F. Saturday around 11AM I was working in the garden. It was beautiful out again. Sunny with blue skies and a gentle breeze, but believe it or not I started to notice that the skin on my back was 'burning' (not sunburn, just getting too hot) through my pants and shirt! I had my back to the sun, and it seemed like the sun was scorching my backside. You gotta love it.
Oh, BTW, the daffodils are blooming now as are the Yellow Jessamine, magnolias, Lady Banks Rose, flowering quince, hellebores, camellias, etc. The lilies are up and the amaryllis are sending up shoots. Dutch iris and allium are about to open. It's pretty much spring here -- and I haven't finished even 1/2 of my winter clean up! Arggg! But I thought I would tell you that spring is here. That should give you hope that is on the way there, too.
I have been looking at online catalogs trying to pick out a few new clems, mostly trying to narrow it down to a manageable group.
Hey pirl,
I tried to order paul farges and Deb at Silver Star kind of made other recommendations. Does it have fragrance I can't remember??
Oh Scutler,
I can only imagine spring at this point. It is a happy and very scary thought. So much clean up from
the winter. Trying to clean, move stuff around, put new things in and grow stuff too!! I am always overwhelmed!! But this year I am down right scared!!! I bought a lot of new things...100's no exaggeration and Now I am thinking I had better get ready everything I can.
You reminded me of that beauty of seeing it all pop up and all the things that need to be done.
And as much as I envy you I really HATE HEAT!! So much so that I can not stand temps. much over 70 degrees and in my own home I prefer it no more than 62 degrees. I have 3 little dogs with sweaters on and little fleece blankets for them to climb into all over the place!!
The truth is though this year 2 of them did not want sweaters and have acclimated to the cooler temps!!
They even like to go out often and for long stretches into this COLD!!! So I ENVY you NOW but I would not want to be there for the summer!! I hate Michigan summers yours would probably kill me!
Well I have 30+ new clematis coming. I am having 3 -18' screens made across one whole side of my yard. I am just nervous cause the guy who is supposed to build them is doing a kitchen and 2 bath renovation else where. He is very good and worth waiting for but he is very slow.
I was hoping to have the screens up in April but I may be not able to get them from him until June at the ratehe's going on his other project.
So PLEASE keep filling me in on what is blooming for you. I just LOVE to hear about it and it does make me feel the Spring!! So Thanks!!
Julie