I just got done collecting all of the info for starting my seeds & I know I forgot some..now I have to put it in a spreadsheet.....have that made, just no info in it yet-I divided mine between what I thought of as indoors starters-the ones that just need 65-70 degree temps and the special ones. I do have a ??-when it says a specific temp, does it have to be right on the nose or just in that vicinity-like when it says 68*, what if they are @ 65 or 70*??
Piggie Swap babies and seed starting
Anything that says 70 or above seems to like my heat mat (set between 78 & 80) just fine. Right on the nose isn't important for most seeds; there may be exceptions.
Seandor - I've found that to be my biggest challenge, is knowing when to start which seeds. There are some I know I shouldn't be starting now (according to Conventional Wisdom) yet I want to get a few going so they're fat and sassy for containers. I have a column in my spreadsheet that lets me list HOW they're supposed to be started (WS, direct sow after last frost, yada, yada) and a column for if they should be started in dark or light, now I have to add a column (right now it's chicken scratch on a pad of paper) that tells me WHEN.....
Thanks critter. My common sense tells me (& it could be wrong) that the things that say "@39* for 4 weeks, then 68* for 4 weeks" are ones I can WS?? What are the guideleines on WS?? Sorry-I am not really dumb, just afraid that I will screww it up & then I won't have anything to show for all my trading/swapping efforts...
Fairy, I've had good luck WSing ones with those sorts of directions... especially if they're also a type known to "reseed" or "self-sow" or "naturalize" or any of those good winter sowing buzzwords.
You can always hedge your bet and WS part of the seed... start the rest inside, or save it for another WS attempt next year.
Robin, have you ever seen a Ball Redbook? Back in my school days that was our seed starting Bible for starting bedding plants. It has easy reference charts for each plant with sowing dates, heat and light requirements, etc. Full retail is about $45, but I've seen copies on ebay for half that for 2003 copies.
And by the way, until I started employing critter's techniques, I was a dismal failure at indoor seed starting. Soil sterilization, H2O2, and fans, along with artificial light have made all the difference in the world! Last spring my flats looked like they came from a greenhouse :-)
Thank you Critter & Fairy!! I was presuming the same thing with seeds that had those kinds of directions - it made sense to me that with those kinds of temp requirements WSing would be easier, and probably have better results, than if I tried to do that with my plant racks.
Edited - Gemini - you and I cross posted!!! I'm going to have to find that book :) And I totally agree - without Critter's tips I'm sure I'd be facing damping off and all sorts of nasties. I water the one flat I have going in the basement with a dilute of chamomile tea :) I have another flat at my sis's house, and she's just using regular water, so we'll be comparing those two for "results". And, both Illoquin and Critter have advised to hold back seeds "just in case" - another very wise piece of advice.
This message was edited Feb 8, 2008 9:34 AM
What really prevents dampening off is watering from below, instead of on the soil surface!
VERY true Tuink - which reminds me of something Xeramtheum posted "MOIST, NOT WET" :)
Y'all, here's a list of helpful sites on germination I wrote some time ago - some of the ones posted previously are already on it. Also, I couldn't resist posting Critterologist's all-time great thread on germination - a lot of bases got covered there -
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4511735
I have a couple of obstacles to get through before spending more time here - will return
Karen
:-) At some point, there will be an article on sowing seeds and clump transplanting to go with the other seed starting topics... we'll see if it makes it into the schedule this year or next season... I have too many half written articles at present, and I need to get cracking! But I did just sow some basil seeds so that I could take photos of transplanting...
Meanwhile, that summary from DeBaggio's book pretty well covers it!
Karen, I wanted to make sure you've seen the goings-on in the MidAtlantic forum... I'm throwing a shindig on the 23rd, and it would sure be great if you & Bill could make it!
(Moved this info from another thread - it really belongs here instead)
I actually have a separate spreadsheet for all the plants I've ever had any exposure to, or experience with, and it has a ghastly number of columns :) The seed-sowing spreadsheet is an idea I got from stumbling across someone's journal entry (that had a pic) when I was going through the Germination forum (I think that was the one). I wish I could remember whose journal it was, but he/she not only had a nifty spreadsheet, but graphs and colored lines showing how long it took for germination - truly a work of art! Mine is much more like Grampapa's, with the names (common and latin so I can sort!), expected height and width, germ instructions, depth for planting, who they came from, and I'm now adding when and where they are sown as I'm finally able to get around to that - LOL!
Gram - sometimes the "home setups" are absolutely the best, as they work perfectly for the space you have!
Wow I'm glad Tuink told us that (dampning off caused by bottom watering) - I always thought it was the other way around! I will have to change my practice of bottom watering.
Ah, better go back and read that, Meredith. I believe she is saying that watering from underneath prevents damping off.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4511327
Oh ya -okay, I thought it was the opposite, but Tuink has such great results, I thought I'd better listen to her! Good thing I re read it!
I just went & bought my supplies-I got 1 bag of reg potting soil & 2 bags of the seed starting soil mix, some small popsicle sticks (for names), some dowels, a tarp and some string...I work next to a party store that always had those plastic things pop bottles go in with the holes in the bottom, so I am going to use the plastic 6 pack containers I saved from last year & put them in the plastic tote thingy-then I am going to tape the dowels in the corners & put string over them to make a support for the tarp that I am going to put up on it
Does this sound like it will work?? It leaves drainage in the bottom an holes in the top??
Fairy, that contraption sounds like it could take off and fly over the moon! rofl
How closely does your set-up match this one - http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Water_Bottle_Tepees.html? That's one of the methods that worked for me last winter.
Be sure that the tarp over the whole business has slits for rain and melting snow and ice to get through. In fact, with those booty-bag/water bottle doohickeys, the booty bags (with only the open, capless hole at the top for moisture to enter until temps warmed up) were enough. I wouldn't use a tarp with those booty/bottle thingies.
However, with the recycled qt-size yogurt containers I used, whose tops were uncovered, using a tarp (with slits to let in moisture) might have kept moisture in more evenly and I might not have had to water. (But, always check to be sure whether watering is needed or not. The tops will look lighter, whereas watered medium looks darker.)
I suspect I accidentally deleted that quip about it not being nice to tease fairies - one could have some pret-ty strange volunteer seedlings in the spring.
It kinda resembles that, but it isn't the kind 2 liters go in-doesn't have any compartments like that.. I plant to put holes in the top for moisture to get in...I will have to take a pic & will go ahead with it if it sounds like it will work..
Critter - thank you for the heads-up on your shindig. I O U a dmail with a huge apology - will write later tonight.
Y'all, what do you think about making the rest of the CG forum welcome in any threads related to our 2nd Chance swap?
I think I'll be dreaming about flying over the moon tonight with everyone in Fairy's contraption - our voyage looks like it's just begun.
I don't remember what size the water bottles we used last winter were, but they were much smaller than 2 liters - 13 oz? A pic would be great. One thing I did wrong was to make the holes on the bottom of the booty bag too big - should have just made slits instead of holes. But it worked anyway - maybe because the turkey roasting pan was slow to drain.
Yes the CG forum members are *always* welcome..
Fairy, I think I know what you mean, and as long as your plastic is sheer and won't fly off (Karen was kidding, but not kidding, y'know?) You are good to go.
I don't love popsicle sticks, but they should work through May. They rot and become illegible. I like to know what my plants are, not only in the seedling stage, but also when they are planted out in the garden. Plastic or the zinc markers are the way to go, but since I mostly do annuals, I use plastic because they are cheaper.
Suzy
I was just going to use the markers til I get them planted-I have schematics in Microsoft that help me keep track of what I planted where-but thanks for the heads up-I will have to keep an eye on 'em!! I already told DH he would have to help me make my little contraption-I just wnated something I could carry them in to get them planted ya know-to make it easier!!
I also got some peat pots for things that son't like their roots diturbed-can those be put in there, or so I need to put them inside a platic pot too? ANything you all know of that doesn't like it's roots diturbed??
Fairy -- my experience with 4-O'Clocks is they dont transplant well. I've seen others say they had no problems, but unless they were quite small [coupla inches high] mine never did well. so i used a peat pot for my yellow one -- that way i could plant it where i wanted and knew it was yellow not magenta/fuschia.
I have read that sunflowers don't like to be transplanted... i can not attest to that, since the rabbits ate all of mine.
hopefully others will know which seedlings do not like their roots disturbed.
Hollyhocks don't like their roots disturbed very much, I had no problems with 4 oclocks and they were about 6-7 inches tall. I've never bothered about sunflowers I always direct sow them.
There are alo tmore that are finicky, but for the life of me I can't think of them right now.
See, and i had no problems with HH's. but it was my first year with them... so we shall see if they bloom this year... but they did grow.
I can't direct sow HH's because the bunnies dine upon them when they are small... I have one that seems to be perennial, but no luck getting any others established so far. (Yes, I know they're supposed to be biennial, but another DGer told me that some of the "old fashioned" ones really are perennial not just reseeding... and mine was from a single flowering 'Happy Lights' mix, so it's old fashioned enough, I suppose.)
I've never been able to transplant them to any degree of success, so I just winter so them where I want them. Unreal huh?
I tried using the wood popsicle sticks this year, I got a pack of 200 at the dollar store. One of the flats I sowed has mold growing on them now. Do you think I should take them out? I've tried spraying them with hydrogen peroxide / water mix and it didn't seem to get rid of it.
Meredith, are these flats inside or outside?
Critter, Mine perennialized, but I didn't like the color and I dug them up -- I can see why people say they don't transplent well -- very long taproots! Bluestone seel them in little cell packs, though, so they must transplant ok when they are little like that. The vairiety was Old Farmyard, I think. It had the highest degree of cold tolerance.
Suzy
I just looked at that article that blue did and there was an idea on there for markers-cheap mini blinds cut up-I thought that was ingenious & wish I had read it B4 I got the sticks-Oh well, hopefully they won't get too moldy B4 I lant everything!!
I've used the popsicle sticks, and they got moldy... didn't hurt the plants, but I couldn't read them after a couple of weeks.
Vinyl mini blinds do make great label material! The "industrial" sharpie markers last longer than regular ones (even through a summer season here, with full sun), but paint pens are even more permanent. If you use black plastic cell packs and black or green nursery pots, metallic paint pens or silver sharpie markers are great for writing on them.
I used peat pots last year for larkspur and poppies with success. I used milk jugs for hollyhocks and the doubles that are said to be biennial bloomed beautifully the first year, but the single, old fashioned types did not. That gives me the impression they'll be more reliable perennials (keeping my fingers crossed). I transplanted them into 4" pots when they had 2 or 3 true leaves with no problem, and they transplanted in the garden successfully too.
I ran out of tags the other day and pilfered through the recycling to see if I could find another option. I had 2 big white plastic jugs that come with cat litter in them, so I cut them into strips and voila! Got another 40 or so plant tags!
Some of my flats are in my unheated porch, but the ones that have mold on the sticks are sitting on my kitchen counter. The seeds that are in there need warm then cold, so I'll be moving them to the unheated porch in a couple weeks or so. I
I can attest to the mini blind markers too. I have been using them for a couple of years and they really hold up well. I just use a regular pencil to write on mine and it lasts a long time, even out in the garden.
Thanks for sharing the WS info. I'm about to fly into it this morning and I need some fresh ideas since I have some playful cats here now. One question I would like to ask about watering the trays from the bottom. How do you tell if you put enough water in? Is there a rule of thumb anywhere out there?
I just let them soak up whatever they can in 10 or 20 minutes, then dump out any excess (I might leave in 1/8 inch, but not much more than that, and not if I have any concerns about mold or damping off).
Hey y'all, I was lost but now I'm found and officially watching!
I have a couple to things due yesterday I need to finish before I can join y'all here and play with seeds, but Seandor just got my clematis seeds, so thought I'd post what I know about germinating clematis here - any more advice and experiment certainly welcome :))
Germinating Clematis -
http://www.onrockgarden.com/ . These seeds seem to be like some lily seeds, in that after 6 weeks (up to 3 months) of warmth, a root appears, at which time you pot it up and give it 6 weeks cold (up to 3 months) in a refrigerator. But with the clematis seeds, putting them outdoors in winter would be good - don't know if they prefer oscillating temps of outdoors or steady temps in frig. And then 6 weeks (up to 3 months) of warmth again. Somewhere in there the leaves should appear.
I would divide the seeds into 2 batches and experment with starting off with the warm period first on Group A and starting off with the cold period first on Group B.
Karen
With the time of year, I am putting mine in a little ziploc with some barely damp potting soilless mix and putting them on a shelf in the dining room, checking for germination weekly. Then on the fist day of Spring, I'll put that ziploc bag outside and they'll get their cold, and germinate.
How does that sound?
Suzy
All the "oscillating temperature" advice on clematis seeds made me think "winter sow!" so that's what I did last year with some C. ligusticafolia seeds... got a couple of sprouts! We'll see how well they overwintered in their pot (didn't seem big enough yet to plant out last fall).
I NEED HELP-how do I open Dryad's bag!!!! I don't want to ruin it...