A Seed Starting Primer ...

for terrified newbies. I'll try to keep this as basic as I can. The information below is general.

There are usually 4 things that make seed fail to germinate and thrive.

1. Too much water
2. Not enough water
3. Too much light
4. Not enough light

Some seeds need light to germinate or dark. Others don't care. Some seeds need to be cold first then warmed up to germinate. A good general rule for how deep to plant seeds, is plant them as deep as they are thick. So a seed the size of a pea should be planted about 1/4 to 1/2 inch under ground. The exceptions are very tiny and flat seeds. They usually should be sown on the surface or just barely covered. For starters, a sunny south facing window is usually sufficient to get started.

The depth and conditions a seed needs to germinate should be on the seed packets if bought. For others you traded for, you may go here to find out what the seed needs, you will need to know the latin name of the seed, you can find that in plantfiles:

http://www.backyardgardener.com/tm1.html

The potting medium should be kept moist. Not dry and not wet, but moist. This is true for seedlings as well. The key is moist.

The first set of leaves that appear are called cotyledons. They are kind of like the yolk in an egg. The next set of leaves that appear are called true leaves. Once you have 2 sets of true leaves you can transplant them into individual pots.

Now keep saying the following to yourself as you transplant:

Leaves can be replaced, stems cannot. Leaves can be replaced, stems cannot. Leaves can be replaced, stems cannot. Leaves can be replaced, stems cannot. Leaves can be replaced, stems cannot.

In other words, handle your seedlings by the leaves and not the stems.

I'd like other experienced growers to add to this but please stay very basic.

X

This message was edited Feb 3, 2008 3:28 PM

I'd also like to add that some of your larger, hard shell, seeds, like daylily seeds, will germinate better if they are soaked at least 24 hours before being planted.

I never plant all of the seed at once. Depends on how much I have as to how much I plant. But I always save enough to try again a few times if the first try doesn't work out.

Sometimes I even try germinating seed folded into a damp paper towel. When they sprout, I transfer to soil, very gently. I usually only do this with daylily seed, but I am sure it will work with other types.

I try to use a mostly peat moss based mixture for seedlings, as it is easier for them to come up. Like a 70% peat moss, 20% potting soil, 10% perlite.

Just some of the things I do...

Donna

----MY thoughts----if you are germinating seeds that are sporatic or long term germinaters ---some seeds sprout in aweek or two then some three weeks then some four weeks ect some might sprout in two months----i like to start them in small plastic cups three ounce or five ounce plastic cups---put excess seeds in the cups so they all have one at least that germinates the soonest if there are enough seeds to do that with--you can always snip small plants to thin them---then cover them with plastic and when they sprout and are grown up a little bit remove the cups that have sprouted from the plastic and put in another tray-that way you dont have trays with half of them sprouted--all the cups in a tray are sprouted--then you can control the moisture of both trays any way you want--that way the spagum is not so likely to get mold or the seeds arent so likely to dampen off---what also helps with mold is dont use any moss or moss origionated dirt use topsoil and vermiculite and small pearlite and sand mixture so it wont mold but is still light enough but has moisture retention enough for the roots also---no mold problem from having to keep the medium moist for long periods---and when removing from trays to transplant to larger containers or the ground you can work with one cup at a time instead of a flat of cells--also if you leave them in the small cups untill planting out there is more dirt and space in a cup than a cell so plants get a little better start and stronger roots to start with----peace be with you---stevo

This is for Xeramtheum & Other

thanks for the easy to understand info--i am not a "terrified" newbie just a "somewhat nervous" one!!

I second using the cups. Small ones. I don't like peat moss at all. Just to hard to control the moisture and it will get mold very quickly. All hard seeds especially tropicals need to be nicked and soaked to get them going in a reasonable amount of time. Plenty of info on Dave's but some of it will just be trial and error.

I have found that making newspaper "cups" (as shown in Dave's video on Making Paper Pots) works well for me, but I use a smaller can - like a 6 oz. tomato paste can. Then I can sow and move the cups as needed. NOT, mind you, that I'm experienced at this, but these little cups seem to be working very well for me.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/video/

This is a "not so basic link".... yet it will encourage & inspire you to keep on trying , and trying... Don't feel overwhelmed... just go with the flow & keep reading the articles there.

***** Click on the thumbs-up images; to follow the links there. *****

Tom Clothier's Garden Walk and Talk: http://tomclothier.hort.net/index.html

This will also help you: The Seed ID Workshop at the Department of Horticulture and Crop Science at The Ohio State University: http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/seedid/

See seed pictures sorted by:

A-Z sorted by Scientific Names
A-Z sorted by Common Names
A-Z sorted by Family
Look through to see the pictures of seeds to make sure you have the correct ones!

It will really help you; as it did for me.

~* Robin

I've put some links in my articles that I thought might be helpful, also. Here are the seed starting articles I've published so far.

Seed Starting 101: Setting up Light Shelves for Starting Plants from Seed Indoors, Without a Greenhouse
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/464/

Seed Starting 101: Seedling Heat Mats and Inexpensive Alternatives
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/556/

Six More Weeks of Winter!? Celebrate by Winter Sowing Your Seeds!
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/585/

The Dreaded Damping Off (and How to Prevent It)
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/277/

I'm working on articles on sowing/transplanting and hardening off, but in the meantime here's a link to a thread in the propagation forum where I've written up some tips on how I start my seeds: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/589725/

Hi,

I appreciate all the work and research everyone has done. I created this thread primarily to get someone started. The biggest hurdle those new to growing from seed or learning anything for that matter is an overload of information. It's really daunting to ask, how do you start from seed, then to get pages and pages and pages of information. That's why I asked contributors to keep it basic and simple.

To learn anything well, you have to take baby steps at first and longer steps as you gain experience. Down and dirty with no frills is the best for beginners.

X

Absolutely!

I'm not trying to overload folks with information, either... the articles I've written are short and very basic. It just seemed much better for me to post the links to them than to try to give a few random tips here.

Starting plants from seeds is fun, and I want to encourage as many people as possible to give it a try!

Since I still consider myself new, I have learned one thing that has sure taught me a lesson.
When you are planting a flat to put under ad dome and lights, try and plant the same thing or at least plants that seem to germinate at the same rate.
Smart me, I just thougt if I had a flat that held 72 pellets, etc. I just had to plant 4 or 5 different plants in there.
Now what I have are trays where some are already up with 3 sets of leaves, so are up but just getting leaves, some doing noting and some barely coming out of the ground. So you've got some in there that still need the dome, some that may need it a little and some that don't need it at all.
So, If I've only learned one lesson this season, I'm glad I learned that one

That's a good point!

I keep re-learning that lesson, myself. I start many of my seedlings in smaller seed-starting trays (little take out containers work great -- punch a few holes in top & bottom for ventilation & drainage, and you're good to go), and when I have room for an extra row of seeds I'm always looking through my stash for something that "should" germinate in about the same number of days... that seldom seems to really work out!

I guess the only thing to do is plant one kind of flower in each if you need that many. I use marigold with begonias around as border around this huge bed I have. So, I need lots of marigolds, but did I plant them by themselves in trays, oh no, they're coming up everywhere.
They are always way up when other things are just starting to come up. Anyway, from now on, I will plant same thing in same flat or container

If you just need a few, you can always sow a pinch of seeds in a cup, slap a baggie on top until they germinate, then pot them up. :-)

my little tomato seeds are just starting to sprout (very tiny growth) can i leave them a few more days in the dark but warm water heater closet? also--i do not have a heat lamp but i do have a desk lamp --can i put them under it?

Desk lamp (incandescent bulb) is good for heat, not sure how much light it'll give them... But once they germinate, I've found it's best to grow tomato seedlings a little cooler, like 60-65 degrees, but for sure take them off the heat mat or out of the warm closet or they'll get leggy really quickly. They'll also get leggy fast with no/low light... best thing for indoor seed starting is a fluorescent light, with the bulb an inch or two from the seedlings.

(Check out the links to the seed starting articles about lights and heat... :-)

thanks

I actually cut My trays for my flats to be able to divide them up easily. I separated them to where I actually had like 6 together that I could remove from the tray when they were ready. I got so tired of some coming up sooner than the rest and having to dedicate an entire tray to just a few things. Also, if you check at Walgreens... they do actually sell these nifty little seed starter trays for really cheap.

I have since starting with seeds though, learned that starting seed in pots is a good way too instead of the trays. I use every size pot imaginable to start seeds. And I keep "kinds" together that way. Let's face it... trays can be a pain in the a**. They don't last long, they crack and break and you really need to have the supporting actual tray for the cells. And sometimes it makes getting the little buggers out nearly impossible. I've had more luck with planting seed in pots... from starter pots to roasting pans and the such. Just make sure you have good drainage. And when you use the little starter pots... all you have to do is put a sandwich baggy over it to help keep warmth in if you want to.

Another thing I have found that is all around handy in gardening, not just for starting seed... are plenty of grease pencils aka China markers. And tiny needle point scissors for delicate pruning and such.

Donna

I know I'm the only person in the world that feels that way, but I really don't like the little jiffy strips. You know 6 or 12 together. I just have trouble with them.
I've been taking some of my 10 or 12 inch pots, putting rocks in the bottom so I won't have to put so much dirt to start seeds, then putting seed starter, put in the seeds and put saron wrap over the top. I would think that would work, don't you think. They are also heavy so dogs and cats and kids can't pick them up or they can't get knocked over. I figured some of them I would use for plants anyway, so if I just plant what I want in there, I'll havae them ready to go and won't have to transplant
Got to be something wrong with that, it sounds too simple!!!

Good tip for getting heavier pots that can't be knocked over!

I think a lot of plants seem to do better if you transplant them at least once... eventually, 2 plants will fill a 10 inch pot, but if you put just 2 or 3 seeds in that pot to start with, that's a lot of wet potting mix for those little seedling roots to deal with...

I like to start in those little cell pack inserts, or even in a seedling tray and then pot up to something no bigger than a 2 inch pot... when the roots fill that little pot, then the plant is ready for a big pot or for the garden.

But again, there are lots of different ways of doing things, so if it works for you -- great!

Critter,

Did you forget about this one? I liked it so much. Now I try to do it almost every time.

Propagation: Clump transplanting & Critter's seed starting tips: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/589725/

~* Robin

i read the clumping link but didn't quite understand it--if you put a few seeds in a clump and then thin it out isn't it hard to thin out?

Critter, don't know if it will work or not, haven't done it before. No telling what I'll end up with. I did plant a lot of seeds in it, cause I want a pot full of marigolds for a spot I need something in a pot for. But you're probably right.
Maybe as they come up I can take them up and repot in a lilttle pot.
See, I told you it was too easy

'Wintersowing' seeds is a great way for beginners to try growing from seed!

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/coldsow/all/

Trying 'Wintersowing' was how I first found success with seed germination and gained enough confidence to try more challenging methods.

I started it too this year. Now I have about 200 containers out there. Lots of them are coming up already, but we shouldn't have a lot of really cold weather.
It's a lot easier than anything else.

Robin, that was the last link I included in my post above with all the links.

I don't generally thin out plants that I clump transplant, like basil, alyssum, dill... anything that naturally has a branching or clumping habit as it grows does fine transplanted as a clump of seedlings. If you wanted, you could transplant a clump and then go back and just snip or pinch back any small or weak seedlings. I think the main advantage is to start out with more little roots in that relatively big new pot. Also, there's a phenomenon whose name I can't bring to mind, where seedlings grow better/faster with competition. I want to say it's "mutual stimulation," but that doesn't sound like something you could google without getting into questionable territory, LOL.

I'm working on an article about sowing seeds and clump transplanting... waiting for my basil seedlings to grow so I can take some demo photos!

Yeah, wouldn't you love someone to go on your computer and see "Google search: mutual stimulation" That would take an explanation!!!

Critter,

"Survival of the Fittest/Strongest"??

AKA: natural selection??
Natural selection conceived of as a struggle for life in which only those organisms best adapted to existing conditions are able to survive and reproduce.

A natural process resulting in the evolution of organisms best adapted to the environment.

Is that what you're saying?

~* Robin

No, what I'm saying is that there's a phenomenon where seedlings seem to recognize the presence of competition and spur themselves on to greater efforts... I'm anthropomorphizing, but that's the gist of it. Some types of seedlings seem to grow faster if transplanted in a clump than if transplanted singly.

Natural selection would be what happens if you transplant a clump of 6 seedlings and only 1 or 2 survive -- presumably the survivors are the strongest/fittest.

Well, that's how everything else is!! Used to show collies and had lots of litters. If one was too weak, the mothers would push them away because they weren't strong enough.
Course we always took them, bottle fed them and kept them. Sometimes we shouldn't have, the mom knew!! Then I'd have a mom that would feed the others then take the weak one out and lay on the couch and feed it by it's little self. And people say there's no God!!
I guess flowers are the same and I can see it, after all they are alive!!!
Now I can see big monster hollyhocks knockin off the others.

that is so interesting about the plants competing!

Yeah, I only wish I could find or remember the correct term for it! LOL Somebody probably knows over on the propagation forum...

i don't need to know the name--i'd forget it anyhow!!

Just call it "you know, that thing where the seeds compete for space"

Ecology: Principles and Applications -

self thining = the half power law

~~~~ density dependence ~~~

~* Robin

Critter, First of all, Happy Birthday!!!!

Yes, you're right, it is Mutual Stimulation, but I didn't think it was competition as much as companionship. Yes, I am serious. The lady who told me about it was 100 million years old, and a Phd in Botany.

I realize the following is of no interest to anybody, but it is the basis for her opinion which I am passing on, so I'm posting it here. Newbies, it's not technical as much as boring, so if you get bored, just scroll on down to the next post LOL!...it's dull to about everybody I know, too :))

I sought some advice from a little old lady who was a leader in many different flower genera -- orchids, daffodil, mums, lilies and probably others about a single special seed I had, as well as others where I had many seeds. It is imperative when you do a flower cross that you keep crosses separate in their own containers to germinate. I had one ONE seed, from a rather exciting cross (I thought) and she told me to add it to another pot because there would be no mutual stimulation and it would not do well and could die. I almost fell off my chair when she started talking about Mutual Stimulation, I swear, it is true!

She felt/learned/was taught /had experience (I was never clear on the providence of the information) that the seedlings have hairs on the ends of their roots and root branches, called cilia, that know if another is close by and they do better if there is...not necessarily too close, just sort of nearby. Possibly a "This neighborhood is safe because there are others like me nearby" sort of situation, but that it was more likely that it was possible they ("they" meaning the cilia hairs on the roots, especially roots of seedlings) exuded a sort of growth hormone in preparation for the actual root of their own plant... but the growth hormone could be used by any of the same species.

I am describing this poorly because we were talking about me and my daffodil seedlings and how she grew them and why she did it that way....but she grew many, many , many things from seed -- hard stuff, like tropicals and trees and stuff. She was adamant that seedlings should be started in a community pot of all one kind, wait until 2 leaves, transplant them to their own quarters and never step up 2 pot sizes,,, keep repotting into the next step size or the pot will have too much water sitting there with no roots taking it up.

Suzy



This message was edited Feb 19, 2008 7:02 AM

Suzy, thanks! You described that very well, nothing "poorly" about that explanation! I wonder if there's also a feedback situation where encountering the growth hormone in the soil leads to increased production of the growth hormone by the plant... In any event, I've started doing seeds just that way. I think everything I've tried does better started in multiples and up-potted gradually, whether you transplant in clumps (like basil) or pot up single seedlings (like tomatoes).

That explanation did it for me. Kind of like "seeking out their own kind" Cool!!!!

Daffodil seedlings? I have the smaller regular type daffs... never seen any seed on them. I love the ones with the big blooms.... wow do they smell good. Now with white and yellow and so forth. You can actually collect seed from them? Sorry, I know this is off topic but I'm really curious cause I love daffs. This year I'mma gonna buy some big ones. I'll sneak off to the store w/o my DH.... he hehehehehe. He'll never know the difference... I have so many plants ... they'll blend right in. But please tell me how to get seed from these things!!

And I also want to say that I never know exactly how many of what seed will actually germinate and make it. So... I end up planting a ton of seed. Now, that's fine for the ones that don't germinate well... but then I end up with a boat load of others. What to do? I line them up in pots in my back yard... collect seeds off them (like I need more seed)... and give away some when a friend drops by or take some with me to a friends. I make some of my neighbors very happy! It's always better to have too many than not enough.

Donna