Tithonia and other plants

I decided that I would include tithonia in my garden this year. Someone in the midwest that posted pictures of it last year, and was excited about the number of butterflies that it draws. ( The name is on the tip of my tongue, but it isn't making it to the tip of my fingers.) At any rate, as I was placing my order, I noticed that somewhere on the screen that there was a notice stating that sunflower seeds can inhibit the growth of grass, and I believe other flowers. I know that this is true about grass because of conversations that I have had regarding the bird feeder.

I am trying to figure out if tithonia will affect the other flowers around it as it is growing or it I only have to worry when it goes to seed?

I've grown Tithonia a number of times and haven't noticed it give any problems to flowers around it. I deadhead the spent blooms, but to keep new blooms coming, not because of any potential problems. I hadn't heard of it giving flowers or the grass problems. It is a beautiful plant that is worth growing, providing continuous bright orange blooms over a long period on tall sturdy plants.

Greetings --

I believe the warning about seeds is intended for Helianthus annus (annual sunflower) not Tithonia (Mexican sunflower). The shells of sunflower seeds, at least in large quantity, are supposed to inhibit plant growth if left to decompose on the ground. Usually, this warning applies mainly to folks with busy bird feeders…

I love Tithonia and it has never caused me any problems. I hope you (and the butterflies) enjoy it.

Liane

How about you Tabasco? I think that it was a picture of your tithonia that started me on this path.

Quote- "I believe the warning about seeds is intended for Helianthus annus (annual sunflower) not Tithonia (Mexican sunflower). The shells of sunflower seeds, at least in large quantity, are supposed to inhibit plant growth if left to decompose on the ground. Usually, this warning applies mainly to folks with busy bird feeders…"

I've always heard/read this but I have always fed birds sunflower seeds and niger seed to the finches and such and I must say the grass has never died out. In fact it grows very lush and thick!

Penne,

I've read in the threads that a lot of people seem to have trouble with this one from seed. You might start extra seed, more than you would need, in case germination isn't too good.

My germination last year was also not good, but then it was traded seed and who knows how old it was? They are large plants and what I ended up with was plenty. The only thing they did was grow over and completely cover some other things, but I am sure that was operator error and not the plant's fault! :)

Suzy

Tithonia is my favorite butterfly plant. They perch forever so you can also get great pictures. I grow them from seed every year under lights and the seedlings are alway ugly but thrive outside. Our backyard is very windy and by the end of summer these huge plants get knocked over. Some times the branches get so heavy they kind of rip down the side of the plant.

I've never noticed them affecting the plants around them, but like I Illoquin said, they do get big and can cover other plants. They are stunning and worth the effort IMHO. Keep them deadheaded and they bloom all summer. Helen

The ones that I ordered are supposed to be about 2 1/2 feet. I saw some pictures last year of some that were close to 6 feet. I'm hoping that they don't get any taller than 3 feet.

Could you pinch back Tithonia to keep it bushy and reduce it's height? Mine actually grew as tall as my roof ('Torch'). One plant planted too close to the house, grew to bend over from touching the eaves.

My guess is you could pinch them back to keep them bushier and that's probably a good idea. Mine have a tendency to break in our high winds. Pinching would make them stockier. Good idea. Helen

When I decided to plant this flower, I started looking around for a shorter version. Supposedly this one is only three feet high. I do remember an earlier thread in the fall when people were talking about five and six feet tall. Just to be on the safe side, I think I might just pinch mine back when I begin growing them this spring.

I saw a very short hybrid somewhere recently when I was surfing seed websites. tapping my foot thinking, just can't remember where.

This is the fiesta del sol from Stokes seeds. It says 24 inches. We'll see!

http://www.stokeseeds.com/cgi-bin/StokesSeeds.storefront

That's the one! 'Festa del sol'

Does tithonia reseed for anyone, and, if so, in what zone? I'm going to try wintersowing some this year. I have never grown them before.

My biggest butterfly magnet has been verbena bonariensis. The butterflies even ignore my butterfly weed when the verbena is in bloom.

Karen

I grew Fiesta del Sol last year from traded seed and it was 36" x 36". I had it planted in a couple different places. One finally got so heavy in Sep that a strong wind blew it over, but it is very cool. I would *not* say it's a butterfly magnet.

I am so mad about the V. bonariensis...there is a shopping strip mall place here that had it out in the median parking area and I went and got some seed, but realized i was too early....I kept passing it, but it wouldbe too hot, or I was dressed up, or had somebody in the car with me,,,,finally the frost came, I went, and it was GONE! Vanished! The crew had come and just leveled it with mulch. I could have had enough to fill a grocery sack and spread it around like birdseed, but I waited too long. Now I have to make do with a silly little package I got in a swap.

Reminds me, I need to go to the dentists office this weekend and get the Zinnia seeds they haven't cleaned up yet (with previous permission from said dentist who looked intrigued by the idea of growing them again from collected seed.)

Butterfly weed isn't that popular here as a nectar flower, either, and I have a lot of things that they prefer -- Zinnias and dahlias, for example. The reason I grow it is because it's a Monarch cat host (leaves), but I am waiting for the aphids...if they come in the quantities I hear people on DG talking about, I need to put it elsewhere (off the property and down the road) because of the lilies and virus. Aphids are a huge insect vector for aphids and lilies do not recover from virus attacks.

Suzy

We all get such different results it's truly amazing. Tithonia is a butterfly magnet like none other in my yard even surpassing V. Bonariensis and butterfly bushes (buddleia). I found out bonariensis isn't hardy in my cold z5 but it did come back and it reseeded all over. Helen

Helen, was your Tithonia the short one or the tall one? Is it possible that the shorter Fiesta Del Sol isn't butterfly magent and the taller one is?

Suzy

I've had equal success with all of them. I started with the original more than 15 years ago and added Fiesta del Sol and a yellow variety and they were all magnets the minute they bloomed. One thing that I really like about them is the butterflies stay on one flower so long you can get great photos. The only problem I've ever had is they don't seem to like being grown under lights. My little seedlings are so ugly when I plant them out but they all do just fine after they are in the ground. One summer a bad wind storm knocked most of them over but as luck would have it I had a church dinner to attend. Found out the flowers do great in water! Helen

PS Can you tell I love this flower?

Helen,

Were they difficult to grow from seed, so they just didn't look attractive until they were in the ground?

Suzy, I still have tons of V.bonariensis seed if you'd like some.

penne-- just found this tithonia thread and haven't taken the time to read all the posts yet. Nevertheless-- what I will say, penne, is give your tithonia plenty of room! Some say to give them a whack with the machete in June, and I may try that this year for more a more bushy and less tall look.

I found tithonia August/September bloom was great for the monarchs, swallowtails, and the hummingbirds liked it too. I plant mine in a big pot and move it into my border when it's about ready to bloom later in the summer when other plants in that space are already done in and when the Monarchs are in full flight around here

This year I am trying Tithonia 'Torch', 'Sundance', and 'Fiesta del Sol'. I think the last two are supposed to be more compact (less huge) than 'Torch'.

I am starting a few from seed and others I have wintersown, just to see which method I like the best for them.

And, no, I haven't noticed anything about adjacent grass or plants being bothered by them, other than they get huge and crowd out others around them. Of course, I have mine in pots!

I have had them for about 3 years and for us they are an indispensible, easy, and relatively drought tolerant butterfly plant.



I.

Tabasco, it was seeing a picture of yours last year that started me on thinking that I needed to add this into my garden.

Speaking of Tabasco; her Tithonia seeds she gave me have germinated! I just hope they'll be ok this early. I really didn't intend to sow annuals in Feb. Just got excited I guess.

Well, that's a relief (that they germinated). Whenever I send out seeds I get nervous that they aren't 'right' in some way. Now I hope they turn out to be Tithonia and not Thistle! (-;

LOL! I'd still have a place for either one.

A couple more thoughts about Tithonia and Butterflies/Hummingbirds--I think part of the attraction for the butterflies/HBs is the height of the Tithonia--I find that our butterflies go for the flowers that are tall--(including the verbena bonarienses in our rather crowded butterfly border).

And I wonder if the small tithonia have have been hybridized at the expense of their nectar available to pollinators...as I recall when I grew 'Fiesta del sol' a couple of years ago I didn't get a lot of butterflies on it, either...but it was short and a bit hidden.

I started some of my seeds both in my Wintersowing boxes and under lights, but I've read they are best started right in the garden (or the pot, in my case)...

Good point. I have read that cultivars aren't as rich in nectar as straight species too. After reseeding over the years, will they revert back to species?
If I recall, my Tithonia didn't take off growing until the temperatures stayed in the 80* range.

Hi everyone
I've been having trouble getting on line at night.

Pennefeather - My germination was OK but I've been using seeds I harvested from my plants. This year I'm starting fresh! I do get some misses but it could be bad seed and yes, the ugly seedlings recover and do just fine. Helen

When you say that the seedlings are ugly, are you referring to the way that the leaves almost seem to flop down, rather than standing up straight?

My tithonia seedlings' leaves are curling at the edges. I think maybe they were too cold or maybe too wet...

I've warmed them up and stopped watering them and they seem to be doing a bit better...

Tiths do like the heat and I have often seen them recommended for xeriscaping and drought tolerance...

Did you sow them indoors? I did a late wintersowing of those you sent me. I was thinking if its ok for sunflowers it should be ok for them, but different genus, so probably flawed logic, LOL. Have you WS them?

Yes, gem, I wintersowed some (I don't know if they are the same kind I sent you) and they have germinated but are tiny. I think they will grow pretty much the same as zinnias--can be wintersown, but later is better than earlier. And they like warmth for growing.

Mine that have the curled leaves were grown inside are some I collected from a tithonia in our garden and I'm wondering if they are 'hybrid' seeds and won't grow properly. Of course, I sent those seeds all over the country in a Butterfly nectar flower seed swap! Oh, dear!

This rain is getting to me. Very gloomy here, although my daffs are quite cute in the garden with the goldfinches flitting around them!

I have been looking for my Tithonia 'Fiesta Del Sol' seeds for a week now and no signs of them. I have some time yet to sow them, but it makes me mad I can't find them. The only ones I found at the store are 'Torch'.

Suzy

Illoquin--Let me check my seed box for some Fiesta. If I find some I will send some off, so d-mail me your address if you still need them.

(I see the SWODs (daffodil) show is today at the Cincy Zoo. I may pop over there for some fun. I don't have much in the way of daffs blooming yet...but the ones I have are very cheery!)

Tab,

Thanks, but I just last night picked up a pack of Tithonia 'Sundance' from Burpee...it's supposed to be 36" tall. I'm running to Google to see if it's different than Fiesta Del Sol, and if so, how it's different. :))

Thanks so much for the offer!!!

Suzy

Wow, tabasco! Your tithonia have sprouted and I haven't even sown mine yet. In fact, I haven't wintersown but a few seeds yet for tender plants. With the warmer (but wet, ugh!) forcast finally here I guess I'd better get started soon.

Karen

I'm behind in my reading! Under lights my tithonia always gets ugly. The leaves get brown edges. I started with new seeds this year of 'gold finger' and so far so good. The plants are the best looking I've ever had. I've never read of any problems growing them under lights. It's too cold for them here to reseed and if they did they wouldn't bloom until late summer. Helen

I don't remember if I sowed it the same day I got it or or the day after, but the 'Sundance' Tithonia I bought on the 6th is up and rarin' to go! I'm glad I didn't start it any earlier! LOL! I only started 5 seeds because it gets so big.

It is started inside, under lights, in a community pot, on a heat mat.

We have some cold weather coming up Sunday and Monday nights..forecast down to 31. Brrrrr!

Suzy

So far, I've learned that the tithonia as easy to start from seed, and tasty to rabbits. I had them in three different locations, and each one was eaten. I'm not sure if I will see any blooms this year.