blue muffin viburnum never bloomed yet

It's 2 years old now, and up to my thighs , has spread out nicely. In full sun. And has never bloomed, I've never seen those luscious blue berries that it puts out.

when is it suppose to bloom and how old does it have to be?

Be patient. Mine did not bloom until the third year I had it, and mine were thigh high when they were planted. Be prepared for a lousy smell from them!

Victor, my order for new Viburnums is nearly ready. After rereading many post on DG about cross pollination and which V. are the most beloved ones, and the ones I think that will survive here, I have come up with my list. . I still have a couple on my wish list V. x juddii &V.plicatum tom. watanabei 'Summersnowflake' . I would love any thoughts and help. Thanks all.

Ready to order
V.acerifolium
V.dilatatum 'Asian Beauty'
V.dilatatum 'Erie'
V.dilatatum 'Michael Dodge'
V. opulus Xanthrocarpum ( I just like saying the name)
V.plicatum f tom.'Molly Schroeder'

on order
Viburnum opulus aureus 'Park Harvest'
Viburnum pragense 'Decker' on order

Planted
Viburnum burkwoodii 'Mohawk'
Viburnum carlesii
Viburnum dentatum
Viburnum lentago
Viburnum nudum 'Brandywine'
Viburnum nudum var. cassinoides 'Winterthur'
Viburnum nudum 'Winterthur'
Viburnum opulus 'Redwing'
Viburnum opulus
Viburnum opulus aureus
Viburnum plicatum tomentosum 'Shasta'
Viburnum sieboldii

Thanks for the help, bad smell? oh dear, I had no idea. that's terrible.

I had no idea there were that many viburnums

Bbrook where did you get all your viburnums?

Patti - some list! Lots of good ones in there - I have quite a few of them. What additional info are you looking for?

Kathy, I got most of mine from Fairweather Gardens. A few from local nurseries. There are many more than that!

Kathy, Some are from Avant, Sylvans, Bluestones, a local nursery, and the new list is from Fairweather Gardens plus I had some indigenous ones on the property. Some smell divine, carlesii is a memorable scent. But like paper whites, it is too strong for some, not me. I love it. Here is V.carlesii on May 9th last year just starting to open. They start out as reddish pink buds then open into white domed shaped flowers.

Victor, Viburnum people are very opinionated and knowledgeable from all the posts I have read, so I was thinking if anyone thought I was missing the boat they might tell me. I will run out of room someday and I would rather not choose a lifer plant that was not good or less desirable than another. The choices seem endless. Hint Hint. Patti

Here it is on May 20, 2007. It is a dull green in the summer, but I am going to let a rambler climb through it this year. We planted it so we could smell it from the house when the windows were open. Patti

Beautiful pictures Patti.

thanks for sharing

Yes, Kathy, I was only referring to Blue Muffin about the 'scent' Many are wonderful.

For viburnum lovers, Michael Dirr's newest book is a must, Viburnums - Flowering Shrubs for Every Season. Hundreds of full-color photographs and all the info you would ever need. All of his books area great, by the way.
Blue Muffin's flowers are pollinated by flies, hence the rottten meat odor. Worth it for the berry show in the fall. However, for the most beautiful berries, in my opinion, check out Viburnum nudum varieties. The berries start out pink, then ripen to the most gorgeous robin's egg blue you have ever seen. They are more persistent than other viburnum varieties, and hardy to -20º F. Loves moist to wet areas, and to top it off, the fall color is a brilliant red (glossy leaves), sometimes red-purple. (Note: The flowers are also stinky!)

Thanks jf. Is the Dirr book available already? I agree about nudum. 'Winterthur' is fantastic. But the BM berries are nice. Here's mine last year.

Never mind - I already ordered it! Thanks.

kathy_ann:

No one has mentioned it, but you will want to have another selection of arrowwood (Viburnum dentatum) around to ensure the best cross-pollination for fruit set, once your Blue Muffin starts blooming. And don't let Victor scare you off with tall tales of suspect smells -- everyone's nose is different. I find V. dilatatum to be much more off-putting (even at a distance), but the incredible and persistent fruit display of the linden viburnums makes it all worthwhile.

bbrookrd/Patti:

Great list! I hope you don't run out of room anytime soon, because there are many more worth trying. A few to start you off:

V. cassinoides and clones
V. prunifolium and clones
V. rufidulum and clones
V. setigerum and 'Aurantiacum'
V. sargentii and clones (will play well with the V. opulus)
V. x 'Conoy'
V. x bodnantense 'Dawn', other clones

On Nantucket, you're probably zone 8 by now. You could try all the southern forms that I can't even grow.

VV, not just my nose - my kids, my wife, my neighbors too! I think I saw a skunk even turn away from it.

LOL Are you sure that skunk wasn't smelling it's own scent LOL

Thanks viburnum, I do have 2 of the blue muffin viburnum would that work for cross pollenating or do I need a different kind?

I'm looking into purchasing more, but have to watch my money right now, winter is not a good time for me to be buying plants LOL

V.V. Back to my books, I have the Dirr is on the way. Plus one on Lilac's, anotherTimber Press book but it is not shipping until summer. I am saving some space for a few more lilacs.

Not zone 8 yet, I still think 6 for most things as we get so much wind and cold and not much snow cover. I have been eyeing V. x bodnantense 'Dawn. I was going to wait until next year, but you pushed me on that one for sure. Thanks for checking in and helping. I enjoy the search and reading all the posts. DH and I talked about more spots on the property today to develop for shrubs. I can blame it all on the birds. Patti

kathy_ann:

You will have much more fruit with a dissimilar arrowwood. Many/most viburnums are self-infertile or self-incompatible, meaning that they produce fruit better with pollen from a differing plant of the same or very similar species. So two Blue Muffins, being identical, won't do the trick. A Blue Muffin and another arrowwood with overlapping bloom time is what you want. And, of course, that is the challenge since availability of plants varies widely across the nation/world.

Let me know what you can find in your area, and I can let you know if it is an "overlapper". Or look up the thread on "Viburnum dentatum and friends" which has all this information.

Have a large mug of coffee at the ready...

Patti:

Would that be Lilacs: The Genus Syringa by Fr. John Fiala? Fine tome (if so) by a fine person. You should get his crabapple book, too.

Your list is going to be plenty to handle in one fell swoop. No shame in saving the purchase of:

Viburnum ichangense
Viburnum x 'Chippewa'
Viburnum x 'Huron'
Viburnum bitchiuense
Viburnum betulifolium
Viburnum x 'Cayuga'

...till next year. Gives one something to look forward to.

what about acerifolium, juddii, or mohawk?

kathy_ann:

Viburnum x juddii and V. x burkwoodii 'Mohawk' can pollinate each other, but won't pollinate your Blue Muffin as they will be done blooming long before it starts and are not closely related. Both will reliably smell better.

V. acerifolium might work with arrowwood, but I wouldn't count on it. I think that they overlap in bloom time, and are listed in the same Section Odontotinus as V. dentatum, but I'd still get another arrowwood.

victor:

I'm really tempted to comment about NY Jets fans, but I'll leave it lay...

Did you mention where I could find a list of ones that I could grow with blue muffin?

Thanks for the list. Here is my initial list of information found and digested. I feel like a well feed bird that has just feasted on a yard full of Viburnums. Yummy. Patti

V. cassinoides - wild raisin - 6' cream -red fruit - fall color red - z5
V.'Nanum'
V. 'Sear charm'

Viburnum prunifolium 'Summer Magic'
Viburnum prunifolium 'Crimson Robe'
Viburnum prunifolium'Ovation'
Viburnum prunifolium 'Guardian'
Viburnum prunifolium 'Forest Rouge'-horizontal branching, glossy foliage - fall color flat- topped creamy-white 12'
Viburnum prunifolium 'Mrs. Henry's Large'

V. rufidulum Rusty Blackhaw - glossy leather leaves - wine red fall color - cream flowers - black fruit - big- tolerates dry soils - rusty hairs - excellent for birds Z5
V. ‘Royal Guard’ narrower smaller , likes clay and neutral (not good for me)

V. setigerum Tea Viburnum - heavy clusters scarlet berries - 8 feet or more Z6
V.'Aurantiacum' orange berries good dark fall color erect and open

V. sargentii and clones (will play well with the V. opulus) 'Onondaga'
dark fuzzy new foliage - the inner fertile flowers are maroon-ish while the outer sterile flowers are creamy w multi-stemmed rounded to 8 feet Z.3 red berries fast growing clones

Viburnum sargentii 'Flavum' - Yellow-Fruit will Pollinate with any other V. sargentii. Z3

Viburnum sargentii Susquehanna red fruit large leaves corky bark z5

Viburnum sargentii 'Chiquita' 2-4 feet scarlet berries if - heavily textured - yellow-orange in fall. Z3 pollinate with V. 'Onondaga'.

V. x 'Conoy' - burkwoodii -frag compact 3-4 ft semi EG glossy z 5b red berries . (V. carlesii 'Cayuga' x V. burkwoodii). Z. 5b-8

V. x bodnantense 'Dawn' frag z6 rose colored upright
Viburnum bodnantense 'Aberconway' -/-
Viburnum bodnantense 'Charles Lamont'

Viburnum ichangense chinese white flower-red fruit 9'lance shaped leaves - frag zone 7 (?)

Viburnum x 'Chippewa' white flowers -red fruit -heavy textured foliage- red in fall color

Viburnum x 'Huron' plant with Chippewa

Viburnum bitchiuense look for source V.V.*

Viburnum betulifolium- red berries-birch-like leaf, hence the name. toothed leaves - white flowers - plant in group l

Viburnum x 'Cayuga' - cross carlesii (sounds like mine)
Viburnum x 'Conoy' -frag compact 3-4 ft semi EG glossy z 5b red berries . (V. carlesii 'Cayuga' x V. burkwoodii). Z. 5b-8

I found this site which is helping me see them until the Dirr book arrives.

http://www.esveld.nl/catalen/heestersv.htm#viburnum

Here is a list of order of bloom at Arnold arboretum which will be helpful in general

http://www.arboretum.harvard.edu/plants/bloom.html

kathy_ann, It is all so confusing, as the real problem seems to be the timing. I think I have read enough, but know nothing, to think that your best bet is to drive around and see what Viburnums are blooming in your area and get another V. dentatum that is blooming at the same time in the same kind of situation. Don't look at the ones blooming in pots at the nurseries as they have been grown elsewhere and the bloom time my not be in sync when they are planted in your yard. That is my best thought, which could be all wrong. Good excuse to drive around next spring and enjoy your neighbors gardens. Good luck, Patti

All my dentatums bloom around the same time so I have never had a problem.

So I shoudl get some dentatums ? I'm so totally confused now LOL I only have one nursery here where we live and I don't think they ahve any viburnums at all, I got mine off daves gardens classified adds a couple years ago.

At least one - other than Blue Muffin, of course! If any neighbors have any you might not even have to, as long they're close enough for the pollinators to fly from one to the other.

Victor, I just got a call from the bookstore, and my Dirr, "Viburnum" book is in. I will pick it up tomorrow. May it make me wiser about Viburnums and help me to finalize my list. I will be ordering many on line. I went to see if the local nursery was open today, but they were not. I was going to check what they will be stocking this spring and in what sizes, but I am anxious to locate the places I intend to plant all the new kids this week. We are getting a warm spell, 40's so I can even dig some holes. Love to dig now that I have a new ACL. One year ago today. What a difference to be able to work again in the garden since last spring. Patti

Wow you are eager, Patti! Our nurseries never get many shrubs until April. Glad to hear about your ACL. I have problems with my right knee and will be starting therapy next week. Hope it's okay for gardening season.

Victor, Good luck with your therapy. Bum knee is no fun. I tore my acl years ago, then really messed it up again a couple of years ago. Went to see the doc and he gave me three options. I decided to put it off for another summer, but by fall I scheduled the surgery and the transplanted acl for last Jan. He said I would be playing football by the fall. I did remarkable well with it, for an old gal. Even he was impressed. I hope I don't see him on Sunday on the field. Go Pats.

The nursery wouldn't have much in, but they will know what they are getting and the prices. Good guys, and pretty nice selection, but because of the shipping to the island, very expensive. They deal mostly with the landscapers. I bought a nice pin oak and a kousa from them last fall on sale. They have a small selection of perennials, no annuals. But because we take our truck off island in the spring, I can hit a few others that I like and pack it to the gills. Your jade will be going off on one of those trips. Patti

kathy_ann and others:

I thought that there had been plenty of info posted on DG on appropriate pollinating partners, but it may be that it was posted elsewhere (!).

Here is a list that I generated from plants blooming here in 2005. These are all Viburnum dentatum selections, or close allies.

IN BLOOM (OR VERY WHITE BUDS)

Crimson Tide™; started 5/14
Blue Muffin®; 5/17
Red Regal™; 5/17
Cardinal™; 5/18
V. rafinesquianum (KY source); 5/18
Chicago Lustre®; 5/18
Indian Summer™; 5/20
'Perle Bleu'; 5/20
Little Joe™; 5/17
Red Feather™; 5/18

STILL IN GREEN BUD, BUT NEAR BLOOM (imagine cat spreading paws)

Autumn Jazz®
Northern Burgundy®
'Moonglow'
var. deamii
Blue Blaze™
Fireworks™
Tecumseh™
Tonawanda™
'V. bracteatum 'Emerald Luster

NO FLOWER BUDS IN 2005; NEXT YEAR

Papoose™
Raspberry Tart™
V. bracteatum
seedlings originating at VV
and clones yet to be named...
*****************************************

Another old thread from other lands:

V. dentatum Blue Muffin® ('Christom') seems to have gotten the lion's share of attention in the arrowwood group over the last couple years, reportedly based on a catchy trademark name and claims of staying small. Unabashedly, it refuses to read its own reviews and continues to grow on to full size (for arrowwood, that would be in the 9-12' range). It does form white flowers and blue fruits (when an appropriate pollinator is near enough), but hardly the stuff of front page news.

V. dentatum blooming at the same time here in KY are:

Crimson Tide™
Blue Muffin®
Red Regal™
Cardinal™
V. rafinesquianum (KY source)
Chicago Lustre®
Indian Summer™
'Perle Bleu'
Little Joe™
Red Feather™

There well could be other plants that belong in this early group. I'd make sure I got one of the many (better!) clones to pollinate it, and hide the BMs behind them.

Happy hunting!

V.V. I have been chasing all your posts at that other land too and never saw this one until I just looked again and realized that I wasn't drilling deep enough after seeing the posts by Kevin. . I think the follow up you posted after his was very interesting to me, the nickel dropped, I think.

It was the post about bloom time and clones. The jest being, that aside from the possibility of having a mislabeled clone (very possible), or extreme weather/pests etc or age, all of which could abnormally affect blooming dates and thus causing inaccuracies in a bloom date list, all clones should bloom at the same time. Thus, a group of named clones should be used to be accurate, rather than a single shrub. Because, (nickel dropping) that under normal conditions, that all clones of the same plant will, no matter of location, have the same bloom time. My 'Erie' will bloom with your 'Erie' Cool. Biology was not my strong suit. If I am way off, please send me back to the corner.

I am heading out to stake my property now for all the new possible spots of my still being refined list of Viburnums. I am picking up my new Dirr at 10:00. Though I still have a key to my old bookstore, which means I could bust it out now. Tempted. Thanks again. Patti

Patti, the sequence of blooms should be the same no matter where you are, but the actual bloom times will vary.

I should add that the bloom times will vary from year to year for you as well, due to weather conditions, but the sequence should be consistent.

Kathy - don't think we mentioned it previously, but take note in VV's last post that Blue Muffin grows larger than advertised. Mine are about seven feet now and don't seem to be slowing.

VV - I would like to start keeping a bloom time journal. What is your method for determining the start date? If you see ANY open buds or 'erupting' buds or if a decent percentage are, etc.?? It won't make very much difference but I would just like to be consistent. Also, do you usually record the length of bloom as well?

Victor, I will photograph mine as they do their spring dance, but some of mine will take some years to do much, the little ones from last year. How many years do you think it will take for the ones that I buy this year from Fairweather? I assume you bought some from them. I expect them to be tiny. I am ordering some from Forestfarm too. But only tube ones due to freight cost.

I will have to wait to stake their spots as the ground is still to frozen. We are expecting weather all week and rain so maybe by Friday. DH went off to fetch my Dirr, but has been delayed in returning. Starting to rain and blow. Perfect day to sit by the wood stove and read. Patti

Fairweather sends decent sized plants - no twigs from them! It varies, but I have had blooms the second year.

That would be sweet. Patti

Wow, thanks so much for that information viburnum. wonderful.

I may have to keep my blue muffins pruned then, cause I don't want them taking over. when's the best time to prune them?

I've tried to root cuttings off them, but not successful yet. any clues on that subject?