Three buds on my papilios.

I have never seen a picture showing more than two flowers per scape on a papilio. I know of only one source that says that papilio "occasionally" produces three per scape. I interpreted that as "rarely" and forgot all about it, since most sources (out of kindness?) don't even mention the number of buds. Two buds per scape just sounds so pathetic when others regularly produce eight.
I figured that it couldn't be that often, or there'd be more 3-budded pix, right?

I am delighted to see that two papilio plants have a 3-budded scape.

This is the first scape I noticed. The bud is a little funky--opened a bit when it shouldn't be, and a little runty.

The other plant has three very nice buds coming.

That is absolutely FANTASTIC!

Oh, please do take more pictures...

Love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's how they look today.

The smallest bud has the anthers exposed in atypical fashion. The other two buds have pollen just beginning to ripen.

On the other bulb, the third bud is lying atop another, off to one side.

Robert,

I am in awe! I have never seen pictures of more than two blooms on a Papilio scape either. I suppose I just assumed that it was impossible.

You need to treat these bulbs with extra care and hopefully, they will repeat this spectacular event. Do save pollen and use on other diploids...

Oh, thank you! I was getting sort of down in spirits because I couldn't order many new bulbs this year, and my older ones will not bloom for some time now. I needed a lift and some inspiration.

Your pics just did that for me!

Thanks!

Ann

Glad to send a ray of sunshine your way!

I too, just never expected to see this. The one plant with the better-formed third bud is the one with three scapes--one faded, one with three buds and one coming along. What are the spathe-leafs hiding on the last scape? Maybe another "occasion"?

The performance this year is quite an "improvement" {beg} over last year.

If there *are* more pictures of three-budded papilios, I would love to see them! Perhaps they go unnoticed in planted-out papilios somewhere? Just lost amidst the profusion of bunched scapes?

R.

Wow!!! First time I saw a 3-flowered papilio. Are these newly purchased bulbs or they just decided to perform like this this season?

The 2 bulbs were bought from B&B and were started in December 2005.

Here are the two bulbs at the end of November 2006, each with offsets formed during their first year. One is in a 7" pot, the other looks a bit smaller, maybe 6.5".

This message was edited Jan 26, 2008 1:13 AM

Here's one of the bulbs, the less vigorous of the two, in October 2007, in a 10" pot.

This bulb has had some disease challenges, too.

I had trimmed some of the very long foliage off--dead ends and such.

Nice growth on the offsets.

The stronger bulb at the same time. Larger with many more offsets, in 10" pot.

Those bulbs are huge for a species! You must be feeding them well, they seem to like whatever they are getting.

I wonder if they are producing more flowers because of the food they are getting, your long season last year may also have helped.

Rareplants here is offering papilio, they say it makes from 3-5 flowers.

" Once settled the species flowers regularly. The plant can bear two spikes simultaneously each with 3-5 large flowers" This guy knows his stuff, so I wonder why he would say that if it wasn't true?

Oh shoot! They are in the same batch of Papilio bulbs as my Papilio from B&B that is currently having problems now. :-( It seems like I would not be able to save the mother bulb. Hopefully the offsets will give me a three flowered scape someday... Did you get any success in any pollination attempts with this batch of Papilios from B&B? I got but less than 20 seedlings out of this Papilio in 2 growing seasons...very "picky" one with it's partners.

Very nice Papilios Raydio and congratulations! You need to post these pics in GW. The Papilio growers/breeders there will be so amazed with this.

Oh! It would be great if you would put these pictures in the plant files so that people who are searching for pictures can see them.

Caveat emptor Department?
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This site http://www.greenconcept.ch/shop-9355-116-Amaryllis-Papilio-Butterfly.html casually says it will have "Up to 5 dream blossoms". In *my* dreams they have dozens per scape!
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If I'm not dreaming, this one has four blooms:
http://www.lukon-glads.cz/amaryllis-papilio-butterfly-p-539.html?osCsid=3c86730819186ac9e4670e20fe90945b
______________________________________

Must be a nice clone some have {coff-coff}. The pic here is the same as the .cz pic and the text says "Flowers are 6" across and numerous." Two is a number and two stalks makes four blooms and that is a number, so how could that be mis-leading? {eg}

Then they include a generic bit:
" Today''s cultivars have stalks ranging from about 12" to 24" with each stalk typically having four to six flowers". Yes, some cultivars do, but the placement of this statement in the papilio description is *very* mis-leading:
http://www.papagenos.com/plantdb/seasonal.asp?catid=92
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There are other vendors that casually state it has 2-4 blooms in a way that makes it seem typical. When I get 4 on a regular basis, I'll let you know.

Oh no, Maria, no cause for the blues. You probably already have the same clone that I do, and when it's all healthy and strong, you too can expect three blooms per scape, right?

I have two pods that seem to have taken as they are growing daily. That can be particularly misleading with papilio, so time will tell.

If I ever get a "home embryo rescue lab" set up, even those weird white-walled dud seeds could yield surprising and difficult (fomerly "impossible") results. I already have this lab going in my dreams where I grow the very floriferous scapes of papilio. ;-)

I don't know the answer, wallaby. But the 3-5 promised buds would make me want to buy one from him. Yep...sounds great to me...

R.

changed bulbs to buds. :-)







This message was edited Jan 26, 2008 6:44 PM

Hey I'm too easily tempted, I wanted to order one really but had already spent enough! Now I have seen a pic with four flowers, (they didn't look stuck on) I might add it to my order, lol, I'm thinking of the one I have and those seed I have to grow too!

The thing that I really should know is if rareplants have grown these themselves, and seen that number of flowers on them. They do grow many of their bulbs, and some have already flowered when they offer them. There was no mention of that in the listing though.

Another point which comes to mind is I have seen a 'true wild form' before on ebay from a German seller I think, and we know there are some serious collectors there. It was said to have come from Japan, and I do know that rareplants buys in other bulbs from Japan. They try to offer only the best and rarest bulbs, aha, they do grow them I reread it and this is what they say,

"Although supplied in the dormant state, the leaf growth on this species is virtually evergreen, once established. (We have to remove these when supplied but the plants quickly make new foliage)."

http://rareplants.co.uk/prodtype.asp?s=h29ejh45201&strParents=&CAT_ID=276&numRecordPosition=1

Maybe these are like many other plants, they need to be well established before they will produce more flowers. As yours have lived for a couple of years now they just might give you even more flowers next year.




This message was edited Jan 26, 2008 10:16 PM

I think their description would have had more impact if they'd shown at least three of those five blooms in the picture. :-0 But that's just me.

All three blooms open today.

On the other plant, the 3rd isn't quite yet full-flushed, but show a definite differnce: the beard tepal has more color than any of the other blooms:

That is different! They all are well coloured, and yes I agree if rareplants had shown a plant with more flowers I might have been tempted. But, they do keep only the best, so...no, I can't, I have my eyes on another catalogue with some gems!

Ah! That more vivid color closer to the edge is more like my first which also orginated from B&B.

I see that you have snipped some pollen.... Care to share what you are pollinating?

Nosey, aren't I?

HSTeacher~

You're going to scream, but I haven't been marking the blooms I've put the papilio on, but that's just a couple so far. I am planning to put it on suspected diploids (hopefully including some new species) and all cybisters as they bloom this spring.

I have another bulb of papilio that I will try it on in a couple weeks. It's from a different source and I'm hoping the two will give some pure papilio seeds.

wallaby~
Maybe some vendors pass on what they have been told by their supplier unquestioned and innocent of intentional deception?

I am still searching for a non-business-related source that states anything beyond three blooms (Veronica Read being the only one I have seen so far stating "occasionally three") Thad Howard describes two blooms in his _Bulbs For Warm Climates_(2001).

Surely after more than 30 years of US sales, 3-5 blooms would have been seen *somewhere* and the word would have gotten around...

There is an outdoor planting at the Huntington Botanic Gardens in California. Maybe one of our DGers would check on what they're showing this season. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller???

Oh yes I agree, some vendors do pass on what information they are given by their suppliers. I would expect different from rareplants though, they are not just vendors but one of these who grow many rare bulbs from the best sources. I have come across a few 'people' like that here who seem to be well trained in horticulture, and have set up a business. They all seem to have a wacky sense of humour too, must have all gone to the same college.

Ah, Raydio!

I certainly will not scream for I also tend to fall into that category... Sometimes, I get in a hurry due to lack of time, and no labels, thinking I will remember, and obviously I don't.

No worry, but you and I are on the same bandwidth! I would adore to find that clone that will cross or self with another Papilio. It has reportedly happened, and I would like to see it happen again!

Please do take a pic of that last one!

Cheers!

Ann

I'll label the seeds with the mama but not the papa, so it won't be a total mystery.

Somehow, I just don't want to see all those hang-tags just yet. And untangling them after the wind has played with them (not yet a possibility, but later) is, well, "uninteresting" for the time involved. ;-)

I did see someone use small tabs of tape on the pedicels and I might do that..

R.

The third blossom has two filaments fused to the style and is stunted--the tepals thickened and a bit stiff.

I'll try to get a clearer shot tomorrow.

The spathe-leaves have finally opened enough on the remaining two scapes for me to see what's in store and guess what...

Yep, both have three buds!!!! Am I blessed or what?!

HSTeacher:
This is the "odd" flower on the one bulb at maturity. A little smaller than the other two with some unusual veining. (Look at the head and lower right sepals.)

Raydio,

Your third bloom has more burgandy closer to the edges like my first Papilio.

The crosses that I recently did between Scheepers Improved and B&B Papilio failed. I am still watching to see what Exotic Star & Misty pollen will do on the last two B&B blooms.

I am in awe that you are getting that many 'third' blooms. You are definitely doing something very right!

Congratulations Radio - to your double event of a triple papilio.
I experienced a triple of flowers in this species Hippeastrum, as far as I can remember, once in 11 years....
As it has turned out that here no board code does work for me I solely include the link to one photo-of-proof:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/haweha/HippPapilio.jpg

As regards the the 4-corner-Papilio above I regret that I take it for an "artwork" *Lol*
Do you observe the transverse little stalk on the right side, under the right flower?! Where does it lead to?! Isn't it a "supporter" for an artificially attached 4th flower?!

Oh, Hans, you mustn't create "baffling evidence"! ;-)

Oh, BTW, welcome!

For those who don't know Hans-Werner, he is a very knowledgeable Hippi-phile and has created many wonderful hybrids (with papilio in particular) that I hope he will share with us!

R.

This message was edited Feb 7, 2008 5:43 PM

You guys are marvelous! The photo was unclear to me, so I didn't even notice... Wow! Am I naive or what?

Hans-Werner! Welcome, and it is always a thrill to see your responses. I have learned so very much from you!

Raydio, all of my selfings failed. It looks as though Papilio X Exotic Star is going to fail, but to be honest, life has been rather hectic around here as of late, so my timing of pollenation may not have been the greatest. I am still waiting to see if Exotic Star X Papilio is successful.

Misty X Papilio appears to be a big hit, but we will not know for sure until the seeds are germinated....

Have a wonderful weekend!

Ann

If you are in doubt about the appropriate time point to pollinate then better do it EARLIER instead of waiting that the thre little branches have FULLY separated. Meanwhile I have performed several pollination before the stigma showed fully upwards, and the branches had not miore than halfways defolded!

Thank you, Hans-Werner!

That sounds good for my most recent crosses of Misty X Giraffe.

I will definitely remember that it is better early than late. I have noticed that the pollen sticks better when the stigma is as you have described.

Still learning and trying...

XXXXXXXXXXX

Quote from HAWEHA:

If you are in doubt about the appropriate time point to pollinate then better do it EARLIER instead of waiting that the thre little branches have FULLY separated.

XXXXXXXXXXX

Meanwhile I have performed several pollination before the stigma showed fully upwards, and the branches had not miore than halfways defolded

Aren't you a biologist, Hans-Werner, so what do you mean by branches? Isn't there a correct botanical term you could/should use?

and the branches had not miore than halways defolded?

Sorry, must be a linguistic problem rather, are you at daggerheads with your keyboard I wonder?

:=)

I have never heard "defold" before, do you mean defoliate, or perhaps unfold, or split?

Thank you for the citation, Martin
"Split" is correct.
And, thanks for that correction. And "separated" can be used, also - and, in fact I did that, previously (see above) ;)
Since I am not a native English speaking person I do not know the appropriate technical term for the three little branches in this language - but, I firmly believe that my message had been clear and unmisunderstable as well.
PS: We are not discussing random errrors of orthography here - if you have problems with that then keep it for yourself.
Thank you.


This message was edited Mar 8, 2008 1:42 AM