bulb rot problem

My new amaryllis bulbs from Scheepers this year were doing well, but now have become red and mushy in the sections that are below dirt level - the bulb is just collapsing inside its skin. I've never had this problem before, and from what I've read in other threads, I think it is a fungus that is causing the bulb to collapse. I am concerned perhaps I overwatered and they were too cold near the window, but since I've had about 20 bulbs and never saw this before, I didn't know. I'll be waking some others up from dormancy - wanted to see if there were any other suggestions to avoid a repeat problem! Thanks!

There are several different ways rot can occur, and you could have a variety going at once, for different reasons, on different bulbs.

Certain cultivars are known to start root growth late and would begin to rot, really, under almost any amount of watering, and cold soils only makes it worse on them, when there is moisture that they cannot take up. The roots start to rot and it can lead to the bulbs.

The cybister hybrids (descended with H. cybister as seed parent) are very slow to start. Look at the thread "on starting cybisters" for more on those. I water on of mine that I though was getting started, but I quit watering it when I realised it was blooming and no more.

Another new bulb introduction that is being reported as slow to start is Rembrandt van Rijn. I have had rot start on mine and currently have lifted it, doctored it and am not putting it back in the soil until I am sure that it has healed up and is ready to go. That may be weeks or even months yet.

I have one bulb that came with a few roots on one side of the basal plate but none on the other. The side with no roots show some rotting as you describe. Its looking pretty nasty on the one side (where there is a healthy offset looking just fine) and it has bloomed and grown foliage. So, I have to water, but the moisture isn't doing the one side any good, a dilemna of plant care. I've been watering on the rooted side and not on the problem side. I'm using some anti-fungal too. It looks to be stableizing and the rot under control, but I will lift it and check it out if it seems to be continuing. It's a bulb I don't want to lose.

I too have noticed scales suddenly becoming mushy on one side, and I have wondered that they didn't get frozen a bit, maybe in the box, on the side that was outward facing. These areas began to darken some days after I received them and before they were ever planted. I also think that they could have been badly bruised at some point and the damaged tissues eventually began to break down.

Sometimes it just happens with a newly planted bulb and doesn't seem to be connected with any disease being afoot. I usually remove the scale and dust. If I have removed the entire scale, I try dust around the basal plate edge. Sometimes the scale gets a bit mushy but dries up soon enough. If it doesn't seem "malignant", I'll let it go and remove the scale when it has dried, but I'll watch carefully for a bacterial rot being in there, and remove earlier if needed.

I use a clean new x-acto blade to excise all the damaged tissues and dust with powdered sulfur. If they aren't in root growth, I will let them dry for 3 or more days to heal up a bit. I have let them site, unplanted for even a few weeks, to see if the rot was just bruising or has stopped.

There's more, {chuckle}.

Sometimes, for whatever reason, a scale will suddenly decide to rot away, while under another healthy green or dried scale that covers it. I don't know why that is, but I do the surgery thing and remove the outer scale and any parts of the rotting one, dust with sulfur and keep dry "until". There is occasionally some red-blotch going on so I will make a point of being very careful with how I grow that bulb. I will use a sprayable systemic fungicide later on when I plant and continue as the foliage grows. The fungicidal spray is good for all of them, symptomatic or not, as it is a preventative as well.

So---you may want to lift the bulbs that are planted and check to see what is actually going on below soil level. You don't want any bacterial or fungal rot to get to the basal plate--that can be the death of your bulb. Remove any dead roots, and depending on what else is going on, proceed from there. When you replant--use fresh well-draining mix in a clean(ed) pot.

And yes, being too near a cold window isn't good. That encourages problems, especially rots. New bulbs are particularly sensitive to soil temperature and try to keep them warm.

R.

I just had to do major surgery on a bulb that looked from the outside to be no better or worse than the usual industry run.

I noticed that under the outer scale, there were dark areas indicating a dried scale underneath, so I removed the shrinking outer scale to see what was going on--to see if the dark scale was dry or wet.

I trimmed the neck down some and saw that there were several other dark layers separated by good ones.

After the outer layer was exposed, I removed the dark dried scale and found indications of rot deeper in. Red mushy areas started to appear.

I cut those out but kept finding isolated lesions that were under apparently healthy flesh. There were deep pockets of rot at the basal plate. Those had to be cut out.

I was finally left with a about 1/3 to 1/4 of the original bulb. Part of the basal plate had to go. One whole side had to go. Sad.

I dusted the bulb and will it stay unplanted as it sends up its scape. No telling how much of the bulb will be left then and there's no telling if there isn't more rot deeper in.

Time will tell.

Will you please post a photo of the bulb after it's surgery? I need a visual to understand the process of trying to save a bulb from rot. I thought it was all over if it started.

Thanks

I'll make one tomorrow.

It will be all over if the culprit is Fusarium oxysporum and it continues long enough.( That's what I think the bulb I just cut on was infected with.)

The surgery is to try to salvage enough of the bulb to save it from total destruction.

Some people routinely give every new bulb a fungicidal soaking as soon as they get it, regardless of any signs of trouble. There are spores present of a variety of fungi at any time and if conditions are favorable (cool and moist) they can start up. Any wound or open area helps them get into the tissues that might otherwise be resistant under conditions less hospitable to the fungi.

R.

Here's the aftermath:

One side didn't need a lot taken off, but as you can see, I had to undercut it deeply above the basal plate to get all the rot out. The bulb is heavily powdered with sulfur.

The other side is a different story:

I would NEVER have dreamed that a bulb possibly survive such damage. Please keep us informed as to the succes of this project. :-)
Thanks

It is frightening-looking, to be sure. This is an example of extreme cutting--"heroic measures" if you will. Most times, it is only a matter of removing a few scales, in part or completely. Those really don't look bad at all and show no sign of having lost them.

As long as there is healthy tissue attached to a good basal plate, it should survive, but will shrink a lot due to the cut scales wasting away.

As I was cutting down into the bulb, I found a very nice-sized bubil and so, if the first one shrinks down but lives, I'll still have two small bulbs instead of the total loss that would have resulted if I hadn't investigated.

R.

Good job raydio. It almost looks like a piece of sculpture...art! What variety is this bulb? I also do this to my "special" bulbs. But instead of using powdered sulphur, I use Captan. It is always a heart breaking experience. :-(

It's 'Chico'.

Would really hate to lose this one.

R.

I recently performed similar surgery on some bulbs obtained from eBay. Tragic stuff, and I think all too common lately...
Mine were cybister San Miguel, Cyber Queen and Residence.

Have they survived and/or bloomed. And do you think they will make it to next year?

I don't really know. I do know I won't be buying from that particular vendor anymore. I had a civil correspondence with them, but the quality has been lacking. His importer seems to be the problem.
This appears to be quite a problem in the bulb import business.

I've noticed a lot of the on-line retail outlets didn't have very many new varieties. In fact, some of the old standby outlets had hardly any Amaryllis at all...when the retail folks hold back, it is a very telling indicator that there are problems with imported bulbs.

Gordo~

One factor that has destroyed the local garden center trade here are the cheap bulbs available at the big box stores and the "DIY-home building" stores. Despite the even poorer quality, those cheap bulbs will sell and small garden shops just can't compete.

Online sales have dealt a blow too.

So now, with all the problems across the board, one wonders what will be the fate of the amaryllis market?

Still, the bulk of all bulb sales is made up of of people who do not expect anything but for the bulb to bloom once and then they toss them. So what real incentive do producers have to grow bulbs free of dis-eases?

Seems like amaryllis "enthusiasts" such as ourselves are not many enough in number to make much of an impression on how important healthy disease-free bulbs with roots are. If we boycott purchases, will that be anything more than a drop in the ocean compared to the number of "bloom-and-toss" masses?

And why would someone with an eye to tossing them after blooming want to spend what many online outlets charge? Perhaps those would be the sources that might hear us.

Will those online stores demand and get healthier bulbs or will they continue to cut their selection down year-by-year as sales drop?

I think we must let every outlet know when their bulbs are diseased or otherwise are not what we expect. This includes mis-identified cultivars, ones with little to know roots intact, those with obvious mite infestation and infection with any of the various fungi.

Whether we ask for replacement or refund or not, we owe it to them to let them know about their product. Just a note letting them know. The smart ones will hear and appreciate the feedback. The others no doubt will plan on making it up in "bulk sales".

And when you get good, healthy, correctly ID's bulbs, let those companies know you're pleased and will be a continuing customer!

R.

Even if the bulb quality is the fault of the supplier, the retail sales company should stand behind the product they are putting out there. They should be encouraged by unhappy customers to check their incoming product and refuse it if it is sub-standard.

Its all economics...
The "buy and toss" squad will always be there, but the buy and buy again folks will get creative. Whether they trade among themselves or come up with new and interesting varieties that are made available simply for the love of offering new and healthy stock, bulb lovers will find the lights in the forest.
Also, these are the days of the tight buck. If a seller doesn't take the time to see to it that their customers are well served, they won't be around very long. Last year, I didn't buy bulbs in quantity for resale. I received so many sick bulbs the year before, that it put me in the position of passing garbage on to people I care about or sucking up the loss, planting them myself and working to make them well. I chose the latter.
There are a handful of stellar distributors who continue to offer healthy and correctly identified product. I expect they have to make the same choice I did. We must continue sharing these sources with new folks entering the world of Amaryllis collecting.

I am particularly interested in the Japanese market. The Japanese love Amaryllis and they've produced some of the loveliest Amaryllis I've ever seen, yet...there's nary a Japanese Amaryllis available from any of the usual resources. What's up? Have they been shut out? Or have they chosen not to participate in the distribution process as it exists today? The introduction of genetic material from the Japanese would certainly boost enthusiasm for the market again and may lead to a new world of Amaryllis varieties here.

Just what stands between the Japanese Amaryllis market and my garden?

P.S. I've not yet been disappointed by Royal Colors.

This message was edited Feb 1, 2008 11:17 AM