Pumpkin Misinformation?

I had previously seen the "Lumina" white pumpkin listed as C pepo, but now I am seeing it as C maxima.

What is the real information here?

And if "Lumina" is indeed maxima, does anyone know of a mid-sized white pumpkin cultivar of C pepo?

Sorry I am as confused as anyone as to pumpkins being labeled pepo one day and maxima the next. Lumina is a PVP ( patented) pumpkin, but Hollar does not give botanical classifications. I guess that everyone else is guessing also. The four white pumpkins listed in Plantfiles (Lumina, Casper, Valenciano and Full Moon) are listed as C. maxima

There is also Baby Boo, which is definitely pepo, but not what I have in mind.

Lumina isn't a large pumpkin at all, but I suppose that no longer signifies in this hybrid world.

I grew Full Moon last year, and it was of a size suitable to be called maxima.

C. maximas are not necessarily large as witness all the the buttercup type squash out there.

Here's the thing: I wasn't happy with the pollination of my squashes and pumpkins last year, and I think it didn't help that I spread the plantings between three species.

What I'd like to do is plant all squashes of a single species, which would probably be C pepo, so as to increase the odds of any given flower finding a pollinator.

If I have to grow a non-white pumpkin, I suppose I can live with that, but there doesn't seem to be any suitable substitute for butternut squash, yet moschata has so few types of cultivars.

I hate it when reality interferes with my plans!

I doubt that mixing the species had anything to do with the pollination problem. I rarely save seeds and when I do I isolate a cultivar about a 1/2 mile away. I interplant pepos, maximas, mixtas, and pepo for production. There are several Moschata type pumpkins, one of more interesting is Buckskin. and of course there is the Trombocino widely used as a vining summer squash as well various shapes of winter squashes.

A collection of C. moschatas from 2007. Each of these was grown in complete isolation from all other squash and each other as I was saving seed for a friend. Despite each haveing only a pair of plants of each, no pollination problems and no I do not hand pollinate.

This message was edited Dec 31, 2007 6:58 PM

I think it's quite interesting that there seems to be no other squash at all, of any species, with the properties of butternut.

The only property I can think of that is unique to butternut is the shape and even that varies widely among the many cultivars. What property (ies) did you have in mind?

The shape and the smooth skin. You can peel a butternut and you've got that long neck of solid fruit with no stringy seed cavity. Nothing better for pureed squash - and it's such a good keeper.

She says, with a bin full of acorns gone all orange - THEY pollinated just fine.

Many of the mixta's (Cushaws) also have a long solid neck and smooth skin. Don't keep as well and flavor is more subtle than Moschata's. There is also the Neck Pumpkin which is really a butternut variant. Most of the moschata pumpkins have smooth skin, but not the neck. ( Rumbo, Fairytale, Dickenson, Buckskin, Cow .....)

Each variety or species should be able to pollinate itself as long as male and female flowers are around at the same time as a pollinator (even if it's you). Of the Luminas I've seen, they've had the characteristic stem of a C. pepo. I also read a post by someone in a Yahoo group who did some crosses with Lumina and Baby Boo and had good seed and seedling production, so my vote is for C. pepo. The term "pumpkin" has come to define several of the species, though the classic Jack-o'-Lantern is C. pepo. I could try to dig up a copy of the PVP application for Lumina, but I'm pretty darned sure it's a C. pepo.

Thanks, Agrinerd, that's encouraging.

All my pepos were setting a lot of fruit last year, but I had very sparse results with the others, very disappointing yields of butternut. What I want is a C. pepo butternut, but I expect I'm not going to get one.

Got me to looking, Agrinerd. I really haver paid much attention to pumpkins per se although I grow winter squash. All the references I can find do list Lumina as C. maxima. However according to UGA, the major defining characteristic of C. maxima is a round and soft stem. All the other species have hard stems. That would mean than Luminas would not have the characteristic handles of the halloween pumpkin.

Butternuts are normally the most trouble free of all squash. Maybe you just need to try a different cultivar.

... IF they were maximas, and the ones I remember had the slim, sturdy handles of a pepo, but then that's my memory. The base of the seeds look a bit different too... it's in one of the old USDA yearbooks titled "SEEDS", so I'll see if I can find an online illustration. Next year I'll know for sure when I see a Lumina at the produce stand.

LTilton, a C. pepo butternut is possible, but not easy to come by. Butternuts are C. moschata, and though the more promiscuous varieties of the species (Cheriman, for one) can sometimes be crossed with C. pepo, the resulting offspring are often sterile. It can be done, but it's a challenge, to say the least.

'Dill's right, butternuts are duh-proof, but I have a feeling that your butternuts may not have had female and male flowers developing and opening at the same time... late varieties with big vines sometimes don't do that until way late in the season... semi-bush and semi-vines tend to put out more of both at once. Maybe just plant more butternuts or possiby try something quicker like Butterbush. It's a semi-bush that should produce a gender mix early on.

Agrinerd, my butternut plants were, all but one, quite puny last year and didn't open many flowers. I'm not sure why, since all the squash and gourds of the pepo species were doing just fine. I kept thinking that if there were more squash that could have pollinated them, the yield would have been better - thus my desire to grow only one species to increase the chances of setting fruit.

Except I can't quite see doing without Butternut, out of the entire universe of squashes.

Will certainly try a different variety, if it comes to that.

Odd. Unless it's unusually cool, butternuts take off with a gallop; even the Waltham's I grew as a kid in Ohio took off without a thought. Since you're in Illinois, maybe an earlier vareity would do better. Butterbush and Autumn Gold by Burpee might do. Any suggestions from Farmerdill?