How long for lasagna to cook?

I am finishing a lasagna bed for roses, and will be covering it in black plastic to cook. I have one book that says it may take more than 6 months for this bed to cook, since I made it in November. Being in zone 8b, with very mild winters more like that of 9a or 9b, is this still true? The other book I bought on lasagna gardening indicates that this bed could be finished in around 3 months. What is your experience with winter lasagna?

I live in Ohio.

How deep is your lasagna? Most lasagna will not heat up much due to inadequate depth. It is not supposed to "cook". It is a cold process. Many people plant it in immediately.

The last lasagna I did I planted in within a few weeks. Since they were tiny seedlings with just maybe 2 sets of true leaves I did make a little pocket of potting mix around the seedling roots as I planted but I've never even seen that much effort recommended. For most plants I wouldn't bother but I was trying to be very careful because those seedlings were especially important to me. Most stuff I just stick into the lasagna and it thrives.

I don't know how long until mine "finish". I just cover 'em with mulch and keep going.

Karen

I've just completed 2 medium size lasagne beds, as well as a ton of "individual" ones for some clematis I was putting in the ground.

I planted immediately in all of them and the plants have loved it. Cannas, strawberries, clematis & jasmine, and not one of them even skipped a beat with the transplant - within 3 days they all had new growth coming up. I was very, very pleased since this was my first time doing lasagne beds.

Another issue is that plastic. I don't know who recommended that to you, but I would remove it immediately. It will deprive the bed of 2 very important elements: rain (or snow) and air. If it becomes anerobic it will foster development of pathogens.

Karen

Agree with Karen. I can see where this is confusing. Don't expect your lasanga to "cook" like a regular composting pile. The building theory is the same, but the methods work differently. Take the plastic off and just keep adding to the lasanga. I have refurbed 2 of my established roses beds using lasanga beds as an experiment. I've been pleasantly surprised as they the roses have perked up and I have added one sowing of garlic in the bed. Was a piece of cake to plant the soil is really rich and friable. I just made a hole with my garden trowel and planted the garlic bulbs. I plan on doing an additional sowing next week, we've just had heavy rains, much welcome, but puttering around roses in the wet is a no-no, so I can wait. I'm going to be really interested to see what happens with these bushes in the spring when they start to bloom. In the mean time I'm propagating cutting from my Mirandy and Sheer Bliss which are teas, just to see if I can make it work. Since these 2 are especial favorites, I'm hoping they "take". They were Mother's Day presents from my sons many years ago and I'd like to give these to my DILs for their landscapes.

I asked this question in another really long compost thread, but this on seems more appropriate (sorry for the repeat Karen and doccat) I Started my first lasagna bed this past weekend. It's small - 4 feet by 2 feet and about 12"-18" high. I started with coffee grounds, then a layered of wet newspaper, then a layer of wet peat moss, then a layer manure/humus mix, added a layer of green plant stuff, sprinkled with more peat and threw on a layer of chopped leaves. (I showered each layer with water).

Do I need to make the top layer a green (like more manure/humus mixed with some soil or compost)?

I guess I'm concerned that when I go to add the plants in the spring, they will be sitting in the top layer of leaves.

i tried lasagna layering this summer and it worked--my layers were a lot like yours but i am curious why you put the coffee down first and then the newspaper--i put the paper down first and then added everything else but am thinking maybe the coffee first might be a good idea--it seemed very strange to me to plant in peat, leaves, coffee grounds, etc and no dirt but it worked --i planted soon after laying it all down--i always wondered how the plants would set roots since the newspapers cover the dirt but i guess they spread out above the dirt --

planolinda - I'm glad someone else finds it strange that a plant will grow in leaves and kitchen scraps ... I have a hard enough time growing them in soil. I'm glad it works though. I forget where I read about putting the coffee grounds down first, but it was suggested that the coffee attracts worms -- although, I think they come to the pile any way.

This message was edited Nov 15, 2007 9:14 PM

worms like their cuppa, too!
I have not found out the reason for this - if one even exists - but I have put down coffee grounds on bare soil and then layered other materials. This pile next to the same type/size pile without the coffee grounds first, but mixed into the other layers.
Pulling the layers away after a few days showed considerably more worms where the coffee grounds were the first layer. Couldn't tell you why, but I have repeated this with the same results. Perhaps it is because the worms migrate to us from Seattle...

I personally think the worms have stock in Starbucks..........LOL My guys love newpaper and I usually start with wet newpaper and then add the grounds. It's just a bit easier for me to handle the materials that way. I've found my "bend" doesn't work quite as well as it use too. LOL

Wow, interesting info about the coffee grounds - thanks!! I'll try that next time.

I did use topsoil in my beds, alternating layers of stuff with thin layers of topsoil. For the top level I used a thick layer of topsoil mixed with aged pine bark soil conditioner and potting mix. (I never read the book, just picked up info from here - so far, so good.)

Sounds good SCNewbie, just keep building and do keep us posted. You can not only use the grounds, but the leftover coffee as well. Shredded or layers of wetted newspaper, just the black and white sheets. Discard the colored ads.
I'm absolutely amazed at the number plp that are interested in composting and the variety of materials that are used. Just depends on where you are located. I must confess I was lusting for the seaweed deal. LOL Guess it's the grass is greener thing. LOL

Right now I'm throwing my used coffee grounds & leftover coffee into my compost bin - do you think they'd be better used directly in my lasagne beds? I have quite a few I'm going to build over the winter for spring planting. We have fairly mild winters here so on the decent days I'll be outside building the new garden areas.

Hi all,
Sorry to have started this thread and failed to return until now. I bet you all wondered where I disappeared to! Well, we had our last football game last night (we lost). But I stopped in to check on it this AM.

kqcrna and doccat: Regarding the black plastic. Our number one enemy here in the south is BERMUDA grass. The old timers down at the nursing home recommended this method this summer to prepare a bed. They are a great source of information for gardening!
We created 100 X 5 feet of flower beds this summer. I used layering techniques, applied the plastic for as little as 4 weeks to some areas, and planted. The sections that got plastic for cooking are the beds that are absolutely weed and grass FREE. The sections completed last, that I was not able to apply plastic, have problems with bermuda here creeping up at the edges, through the newspaper and anywhere it can push itself through. YES it can push through 12 layers of newspaper, top and bottom. We are seeing that now.

After this time, I ordered the Lanza book, Lasagna Gardening. She also recommends the black plastic covering to accelerate the process and kill grass/weeds. On page 17 of the book, here is the method, quoted:

"Once the bed is 18 to 24 inches deep, I cover it with black plastic and weigh down the edges with bricks. The plastic helps keep the materials moist and traps the sun's warmth for fast heating. I usually leave the plastic on for about six weeks. Most of the mulch will have broken down into a dark, crumbly material that's a joy to plant in."

My concern with not using the bed immediately is that the bed is intended for roses, and its contents consist primarily of FRESH horse manure, that needs to age, layered with pine shavings from my horses' bedding. I also added some plant clippings, bone meal, alfalfa, table scraps, all in smaller amounts. I feel that planting in this bed immediately may upset the roses' root systems, due to the large content of fresh manure.

Also, my beds are not as deep as hers, which gives the bermuda more opportunity to try to live. Mine are 8" deep.

Thanks for all the info gang! Glad you started this thread miniponyfarmer.

MiniPonyFarmer, your absolutely right about waiting to plant. Raw manure needs time to break down. It can burn your plants in that form. Once it's broken down you're roses will love it! Just add a handful of lime to the plant hole along with your other amendments and mix well. Roses like lime and it has a tendency to repel nematodes and other underground critters that like rose roots. Pick a rose fertilizer with a high middle number for new roses. You'll encourage great root growth, which will really pay off as they mature. It makes for a bigger base under the graft and all those lovely roots make for excellent bloom!

Hey Mini - I have had to deal with the dreaded Bermuda grass as well. What I found most helpful with keeping it at bay in raised beds is a heavy layer of cardboard in the bottom - but I also solarized the area first, which is approximately what you're doing with the black plastic. You have to be careful at first not to dig through the cardboard.

That stuff needs all the killing it can get, lol.

The magic component of a lasagna bed is rich compost. Compost = living microbes. I just don't see plastic doing anything kind for the biological growth. It probably will eliminate the Bermuda in that bed for a while but my guess is it will also eliminate the desirable organisms, too. And it might harbor undesirable anerobic microbes.

I can't really relate because I have yet to be invaded by the dreaded bermuda. But I will say that anything that pops up in a relatively new lasagna is generally very easy to pull because the soil is soft and friable.

Good luck to you.

Karen

Ok,
I planted a lasagna in an existing flowerbed in the yard today. Approximately 4' x 2'. I established this bed last summer. I sifted all the compost I got from my first effort at a compost bin. It was finely flaked, and smelled wonderful. And was full of worms! So I tossed it all into this bed. I had to line it with gadeners cloth because it had been overgrown with those asparagus fern. Those little ball roots were everywhere, and totally unwanted in my new bed. So I lined it with the gardeners cloth first and then filled it totally with the compost. This is what I planted in, and the plants loved it. Only problem is that there are two trees in the bed, and it doesn't get much direct sunlight. I planted coleus hostas, and ferns and it was quite wonderful for a firsttime effort.

So, we were cleaning up the yard today, and had all these leaves and buckets of coffee grinds my DH kep ttelling me to use before I brought more home. I pulled up the hostas from the bed (they were in containers just sitting in the bed) and I dug up the ferns and repotted them last weekend to try to keep them alive through the winter. I put an entire layer of coffee grinds and filters, then a layer of leaves, then a layer of grass clippings, then more leaves.

The bed is about 8-10" deep, maybe a foot. Oh, yeah, I did sprinkle the layers well.
And, oh yeah, the coffee grinds were full of those big white larvae thingies I've been trying to identify for weeks. I think I'm getting used to them. What do babie worms look like? Nah, it couldn't be that easy.....

Anyway, I'm researching ideas for what to plant in this bed. Someone told me to google shade plants zone 9a and I did. I really want this bed to take off with autumn and japanese ferns and hostas. But, I'm not having much luck with the ferns takin off. They seem to be ok one week, then the next they're all dried up, until I wet the bed down. Anyway to keep the moisture in this bed?

Thanks.

BTW, this IS a good thread.

P.S. Here's a pic of the bed when it was planted last summer.

Here's after it took off. Maybe I should just do the same thing...maybe put some begonias in with the ferns...

Oops. wrong pic. This is when it was at its best..

I knew I remembered this thread, I just didn't realize it was this old!
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/soil/msg1210543029065.html

Karen