Fall is for Planting! How late is too late?

This is my first season in my new zone 6b and I am having a marvelous time designing the new spaces. As a transplant from the semi tropics this is a whole new world for me.

I am unable to find any solid advice on how late is too late to plant small shrubs and trees? I know that each species is a different animal, but am I correct to assume that I should be mostly done now? Any rules of thumb? Is it true that dormant varieties can be put in much later than evergreen things including conifers? I will of course continue to water and mulch, but when is planting absolutely "done" for the season?

I am using the most common plant materials like azaleas, rhododendrons, hydrangeas, lilacs, viburnums, redbuds, spruce, serviceberries, crabapples, dogwoods, hollies, junipers, arborvitaes, shrub roses, boxwoods, and so on- nothing terribly exotic. Good slightly acid soil on a huge lot bordering native woods.

I've been on a bit of a plant buying binge and my wallet could sure use the rest! On the other hand I would like to get in as much of the "bones" of this garden as I can so I can concentrate on smaller plantings in the spring.

Stop now or keep digging?
Thanks!

Plant, with care, up until the ground freezes. For containerized or B&B plants, thoroughly soak the planting hole and soak the rootball. Bare root is much more risky and care must be taken to make sure the roots won't heave out of the soil from freeze - thaw cycles. No fertilizer of course. Evergreens (including the azaleas and rhodies), that are zone hardy, but grown in southern nurseries and shipped north are more tender until adapted and need winter wind protection with burlap. For all late plantings mulch deeply, but remember to remove all but 2 - 3 in. in the early spring so the ground can warm. Don't let anything go into the winter with dry roots. Enjoy! And remember that deep snow cover is GOOD thing.

This message was edited Nov 1, 2007 4:55 PM

I agree with the above, Here in UK, cold, wet and windy, this is our best time for planting trees and shrubs, there is some moisture in the soil and under soil will still have a slight bit of heat to it, If the trees, shrubs are in pots, give them a really good soak before you remove them as they have been in the pots for many years to reach the size suitable for sale, if any have got root bound (roots growing around in circles within the pot shape) then finger tease some apart so that they spread out as they grow or you will encourage them to continue growing in circles if you dont, give the planting hole a good soak also and add some compost/peat to the soil as you back fill the holes, always make the holes much deeper and wider than the pot size as you want the roots to quickly establish a good root run and by adding plenty of compost/peat you are allowing nice air into the soil and break up and mix so that as you back-fill the holes, you dont let any air pockets stay in the hole, gently trample the soil around the root ball as you fill to help stabilize the roots, but dont put too much weight onto it,
I would actually add some acid food to the planting ares for your flowering shrubs etc like Rhododendrons as these will already have this springs flower buds that have started growing since end of last flowering this year and you want to make sure that they are fed to give them the energy boost that they need for good flowers and colour, if you plant any Camellias or Magnolias, feed them also, but always plant these where they wont get early morning sun, this is to protect the flowers from being frosted and then warm sun on them will cause the flowers to rot as they are tender if frosted and a quick thaw comes, I would advise you to add tree stakes when you plant your trees, A to help stabilise the trunk till it gets used to it's new climate and B so they dont get the root ball loosened by wind, If you bought these shrubs within your area, then they wont need a lot of protection for climate change, but just keep and eye on then for the first couple of years, if they get frosted, then off er some shelter, but not one that will prevent light getting onto the foliage, use a fleece or something light like that so it allows rain and sunlight onto the plants but protection from HEAVY frost, and easy to put om or remove in no time, you want those type of trees and shrubs to toughen up yet care for them the first early years, wish you happy gardening as you will enjoy these plants for many years, I am an acid soil grower and your choice of plants are so similar to mine here on the West coast of Scotland, so it is the salt winds that do the damage to my garden, but these plants are really good for your conditions. Oh forget to mention, dont plant any of them below the soil mark they were in their pots or you will cause the trunks and stems to rot, same with your mulch, not onto the trunks/stems. good luck. WeeNel.

South of you winter is the best time to plant but our soil never freezes.

Is it ok to move/transplant evergreen shrubs like boxwood and holly (Ilex crenata) in November?

Thanks everyone!

We're experienced gardeners- just experienced tropical gardeners who know next to nothing about cold weather. My husband is the best "planter" ever as he never tires and digs as perfect a hole for the 99th plant as he did for the first. We put in over 125 plants in October and the first week of November and if they all make it I will be very happy.

I've stocked up on burlap, stakes, and chicken wire in case of a really bad spell, and I do water regularly and properly. Fingers crossed.

I don't need an acid fertilizer as I have a property full of ancient oak trees that have been dropping leaves for decades. In fact my soil test indicated that we needed lime on the turfgrass areas- my soil pH is 6.0- 6.3 in most zones.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Now if anyone knows of a mulch for hillsides that won't wash out...

For mulch that sticks on hills, I've seen a lot of people use what my landscaper called "gorilla hair", it's finely shredded bark that is shredded into very thin string-like pieces rather than chunks (hence the gorilla hair nickname!). It's supposed to stay put better on hills and in wind (both of which we have a lot of around here!) I had been planning to use it on my hills, but then I messed up my back and couldn't handle bags or wheelbarrows full of mulch, so I used the "Original Mulch Block" instead to do my whole yard. It's made of coir, and while the pieces aren't long and stringy like the gorilla hair, they are small and light and so far they've stayed put on my hill just fine (although to be fair, we've only had a few rainy days so far, and only one day where the rain really came down hard). It's not the most economical option since it costs a lot more than regular mulch though. (If you want to see how steep my hills are, check out the "front yard north hill" and "front yard south hill" tabs in my diary for pics)

I'm very limited in what mulch I can find locally- so far I've seen plain cypress and red cypress and that is all. I will certainly start looking for "gorilla hair"- can't wait to see the looks on peoples faces...

Thanks!

I think the stuff out here is made from shredded redwood or cedar bark, you can buy it in bigger chunks, smaller chunks, or the hair. I don't know if you'll have it in your area or not--I know mulch can be region specific (we don't have any cypress mulch here for example) so if they can't make cypress into the fine hairs then you probably won't be able to find it. If you're not able to find it, the smaller the pieces of mulch are the less gravity is going to pull them down the hill so I would think small chunks would be better than larger chunks.

"Gorilla Hair" is the inside of the bark. Of all the mulchs I've used this is the one I like the least. But, for the very reasons I dont like it, it is teriffic for hillsides. It never, just never decomposes in less than 5 or 6 years. Even then it still locks tight into the soil. It can be nearly impervious to water. Not a good choice for a flower bed. But if your going to plant a ground cover on a hillside gorilla hair is probably the ideal mulch. It will last and prevent soil erosion until the ground cover is well established. It does come with some sizable chunks of just plain wood. Again, not much of a problem on a hill side but who wants chunks of lumber in a flower bed?

Re planting shrubs, I thought one was supposed to get the final plant in the ground 6 weeks before the first serious freeze~~to let the roots grow a little. November in zone 6b probably would not be fatal, but if you got a rought winter--why not let the nurseries worry about getting the shrubs through the bad weather and give your wallet a rest! Plus, this winter respite will give you time to plan/consider other ''bones'' for your garden in the form of paths, stone walls, patios, ponds, outdoor lighting, birdhouses--all to be installed once the weather gets warmer in the spring. Big bucks!

I'm done for the year :)
The last plants went in the week of the original post and everything looks great.

Thanks all!

Root growth is possible when soil temperatures are above 40 degrees. If a tree or shrub is well watered at planting, mulched to prevent heaving and is protected from dessicating winter winds they generally do fine if planted late. I've chopped though frozen ground in December and planted B&B Fraser firs. Not the preferred or ideal situation by a long shot, but definitely doable - If you don't mind hauling buckets of water from the house! Most of my Japanese Maples are end of season garden center bargains (75% off!) and planted in late October and on into November. I would agree though that early October would be a better time frame within which to finish up planting. Certainly easier.

Funny you should mention that- I threw my back out yesterday dragging 400 feet of hose around. Yes- I have four 100 foot hoses strung together.

My weather is holding pretty well. No freezes yet and an expected high tomorrow of 70ºF so I think my plants are doing ok. Most have already shown new growth.
I have a few more winter watering questions but will start another thread.

Cearbhaill - I meant to comment earlier that you have chosen an impressive selection of planting material. Please post pictures next spring.

That's also an impressive distance to lug a hose! Ours are all drained now and stored inside. Hence, should I stumble across a garden center bargain at this late date it would mean the bucket brigade. Ugh!

In this zone the watering is done. Lows at night of 27 degress are expected by Thanksgiving signaling that by this time all plants should have received sufficient moisture at the roots to be available when needed. Unless we have a dry winter and/or no spring rains I don't anticipate watering again until the ground thaws and soil temperatures approach 40. Soil temps here usually lag air temps by two to three weeks, both on the cool down and on the warm up.

Remember - snow is good.

Cearbhaill - You did it right!!! You looked up your zone first!! and yep, you are right on the planting in fall thing! It is a great time of the year!! if you take the correct steps.

here are some of the rules of thumb we use at the nursery when people call in. typical caller -
"can I still plant ____ and when will you get it to me?"

1. Look at where they live. What zone, what area that it is planted in (open farm land, sheltered neighboorhood, rooftop city apt, up on the top of a mountain, below in the valley).

2. look at their AVERAGE temps for the last two years. you can find this most any weather page on the net, we use yahoo quite often. Estimate when the ground of newly turned soil will start freezing. We won't ship a customer anything unless that plant gets 4 to 6 weeks in the ground before the temps get cold. People in Alabama can plant way longer than people in Maryland.

3. Look at what they want to plant. You can throw a Forsythia twig or a Mimosa tree out in the ditch and by george, that puppy will grow. You do that to Heuchera or roses, you have a dead plant. Some things are hardy, some aren't.

Also, Mother nature tends to monkey around with nursery stock. She has a very wicked sense of humor. Here in Tennessee, last Easter weekend we have 80 degree temps for about a week. That Sunday, the high was 31. EVERYTHING THAT BLOOMED WENT BACK TO DORMANCEY!!! Softwood plants (Althea for 1) split straight down the middle of the trunks because all the "juice" that was going up to the branches to produce leaves and blooms, went spiraling back down to the roots WAY TOO FAST and, hense the split.

I am sure you can see the other side of the coin now. This is why nurseries tend to be real careful to tell somebody that "yeah, you can plant now". We like "eating crow" about the same as the customer does!!!