Black Eyed Susan question

while doing a search on the seed for this plant, i see it is also called "Orange Coneflower"

I found Rudbeckia fulgida var. sullivantii
and Rudbeckia hirta

and according to Wikipedia, it is just a common name for various plants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-eyed_Susan

how do i know which seed i have?

Basically, my neighbor went across the street and snagged the "spent" plant to get the seeds.... I thought is was black eyed susan -- but we could not locate the seeds within the spent flower head.... it all just looked like chaff.

so, now i'm even more confused seeing there are more than one type of black eyed susan.

any enlightening would be great,

TIA,

Terese

Hi Terese,
What I consider BES is Rudbeckia hirta - a fuzzy leafed plant. Rudbeckia fulgida fulgida'Goldsturm' is a glossy leafed plant sometimes called orange coneflower. They both are true from seed. BES has a tighter seed head and Goldsturm is a bit bigger and more cone like.
Does that help?

Thanks Al,

seems the one she grabbed would be the hirta, as the head was small.

and funny thing -- she and I were talking about BES the other day and she pointed plants out to me that she said she grew by seed... and i said, "those are coneflowers", so maybe they are BES... guess time will tell, right, since they do not bloom til the second year?

Terese

Hirta's would bloom their first year. You'll know when they come up what you have right away between those 2.

gotcha... thanks. she and i are working on a perennial garden for next year... that is one plant i was hoping to have... and now that i know the hirta's will bloom from the git-go, and not have to wait a year, like for coneflowers -- I'll go with those also.

on a side note... i did WS some purple coneflowers and actually got 1 bloom this year... i was stunned. it's small, but definitely a coneflower.

OH -- i've been searching for an image of this hirta (BES) seed and have yet to find one.... just wanna be able to tell the difference between the chaff and the seed.

Terese, I cleaned my flower heads just this past week. (Rudbeckia hirta)
I put the flower heads into a large empty coffee can, put the lid on, and gave it a good shake for about 30 secs.
This is what poured out.
I've circled a few of the seeds.
Basically, the seeds are small Black or Dark Brown, pretty smooth.
Hope this helps.....

'Goldstrum' is my very favorite................(of the yellows and browns)
Ours always bloom the first year from seed........i am in zone 9

Thanks AL.

I always wonder what part is the seed. some are quite obvious, while others are not.

gessiegail -- i'll have to look that one up.
I like plants that bloom the first year.

The blooms are so big and strong...........

I try to grow those that come true from seed when i can.............but now there are so many cultivars that don't come true from seed....................

Al,

I know that you said earlier this year that the rudbeckia would self sow the following year, but I just wanted to double check this because the Jung seed catalog shows Goldstrum (R. fulgida) as a perennial, although R hirta is listed as an annual. This is my first year to have both in the garden. I love the prairie sun (R. hirta).

This is a picture of prairie sun, monarda, zinnias in my garden. There are some black eye susans just to the right of this picture.

I'm just trying to figure out what is going to happen next spring.

pennefeather... beautiful garden!!

Therese,

Thank you. I miss being in the garden. One of the best things that I did was load about fifty garden pictures on my digital picture frame ( along with assorted family photos). I look at these pictures all of the time, and dream on my garden for next year. I find myself wondering what I did last year, which flowers performed well, and which ones need to be moved, or discarded. I also used my garden photos as a screen saver, so I am surrounded by the garden.

I can't wait until spring.

Goldsturm is a perennial yes, it does self seed if not heavily mulched. R. Hirta's will self seed if the seed heads were left on and the soil surface is mostly bare. I wouldn't consider either one a crazy reseder like cosmos or nicotiana though - you'll get enough to enjoy.

Happy New year Al, I just checked and I think you win the prize for the first post for 2008☺

Thanks Al. I'll just plan on starting some new ones. I checked, and found that I had not planted goldstrum, and all of the others were in areas that should have had a good deal of mulch.

At least, I wont repeat my mistake of last year of starting so many seeds. I wasn't sure what the germination rate was and ended up with almost a hundred different rudbeckias started. I was able to give some away, and ended up planted the rest anywhere I had room.

oh penn,
How old are those plants in this flat? This year I sowed about 5 flats, full to the hilt..lol. both mex hats and different BES ..

I started them on Jan 29 this year and the rest of the order for the coneflowers just came in and I am hoping to get some more flats started. Several plants will go into many empty pots throughout the yard and I want to make sure I have enough and also enough to get seeds for next year.

these are the ones that just came in:

Coreopsis Radiata Mix
Dwarf Red Plalins Coreopsis
Golden Wave Coreopsis
Plains Coreopsis
Rudbeckia triloba (red sport)
Ratibida pinnata Yellow coneflower
Ratibida columnifera long headed conflower
Echinacea paradoxa

I guess I better get a plantin.. I'm going to try for a flat of each.

Gourd,

That picture was from last spring. I had planted so many seeds, and didn't know that I would get such good germination. I have yet to start any black eyed susans this year. In fact, I found out this weekend that I don't have any seeds left! For some strange reason I kept thinking that I had another package, so I will have to go out and get some just in case they don't self seed. I probably had too much mulch down for it to happen much.

By the way, Al, do you remember how tall Maya was for your last year? I'm thinking about adding another BES to the garden. This is called goldilocks, and it reminds me of Maya

Pford,

Just a thanks for included a picture of your seeds. I just collected some of my seedheads for the first time today. I was wondering which was seed, and which was chaff, when it occured to me that I had recently seen a picture of this. Hopefully, I have the right parts to plant tonight.

Penne,

Didn't have Maya, I had Goldilocks. I think Maya is in that 18-24" range.

pennefeather,

Yes -- that would be a good idea for a thread!!!
Seed pictures!!!
Although obviously a good place to put these pictures would be to put them on the PlantFile page, a thread might also be helpful. :^)

So just a reminder, the seeds are small and mostly Black to Dark Brown - very small and somewhat shiny.

I've always tried to get photos of my seeds... but the macro function this camera i use is practically useless .... i liked my Nikon better.

but -- it's very helpful, especially for newbies to see/know what the seed looks like.
some heads have so much chaff that it's hard to tell what exactly is the seed.

Now that I have my seeds, I am ready to start . This year, I will have a variety of black eyed susans:

goldstrum
prairie sun
irish eyes
goldilocks
glorioso daisy

Add to that about five or six different echinaea and it should be a happy, colorful garden.

OK -- one more question on these BES [hirta variety]

a new park was built just around the corner from me and i know they had lots of these, and some purple coneflowers too [but currently i'm not concerned with them... though i may grab some seed heads]

are the seed heads that are still on the plant, still good? meaning viable?
I just am not sure if they have been 'hanging out all winter' -- but i'm assuming they are good, but i just wanted to ask.

and, if i can get them to germinate, they will bloom for me this year right? [i'm sure that was answered above too ]

again -- thanks

Terese

Yes and yes T.

thanks Al.

Pford,

Apparently, I couldn't seperate the seeds from the chaff - nothing came up! I thought that I was overdoing it just in case but I ended up with a big zero. Luckily, I still have some seeds from last year that I can plant.

Maybe the birds picked all the seeds off of the pods. I didn't try to collect it until last month.

Penne,

aw no -- I'm sorry.
Maybe you'll be surprised, because the seeds might have fallen from the heads, and are already in your garden. I bet they'll sprout here in just a few more weeks after some warmer weather......

I think I've seen some seedlings sprouting in my garden.

But, I've also had lots of little bitty birds hopping around my garden too. :^(

good luck

Yep,

I must not have had any seed in that mix. The new flats are all beginning to germinate.

pford1854, bless you for that picture!! I'm still a novice at collecting seed from perennials and I do much better with visuals! That is a big, big help! Thanks so much! Hmmmm, maybe I can get an article out of this for other's that are newbies at this. I'll have to do some research. Thanks for the idea!

So glad I found this thread.