Composter

Okay, I'm about to break down and get a real composter, DH simply cannot get the time or energy to construct something and I know better than to do this one myself.

What do you use? Is it a tumbler or a stacker or homemade? Do you run a hot pile in it?

Some people have mentioned the... shoot, what were they called? Bio master or something? Anywho, these things are a little too pricey to be buying blind, so any help is appreciated!

Sheryl

Hi Pagancat!

I always enjoy your posings on the compost thread!

I really like my Biostacks (I have three) , purchased from Smith and Hawkins (and presently on sale.)

http://smithandhawken.resultspage.com/search?p=Q&ts=v3&w=biostack

They are not cheap. They are good for containing compost in a smaller space (like mine.) They are easy to use. I recommend them.

Hey PC - hope all is well in your neck of the woods.

Re: tumblers - I have had 2 different types, but they get too heavy to turn when half-full. And they don't produce enough at one time for my acre & a half.
I decided to build a long one, with 3 separate bins, each holding about a cubic yard.
Removable sides/front. Great access. The negative is they are made of wood, which will eventually rot.
If I had to get another system, I would look for something along the line of the biostacks, and if cost was an issue, get one at a time.

In my orchard, I do sheet composting, which works well for me in this climate. Besides, I'm not in a hurry, lol! Wire fencing to surround & contain it. It rains most of fall through late spring - so it gets covered with plastic to help it from becoming saturated. It isn't visible from the house, so it doesn't have to be "pretty". The worms are happy & so am I.
Hope your weekend is fun! K

Katye, I have layered some straw and grass clippings here with some bagged steer manure. Should I have covered it to keep it from getting too wet?

I have another area where I piled on the straw and clippings and gently tossed with the soil that was present. Did I do something wrong? I am counting on planting on these in the spring!

No - you've done nothing wrong.
You don't get as much precipitation as we do: I live a bit east of Seattle - I lovingly refer to this area as "ColdWet", because, well - it is!
On the western side of the Cascades, we just don't build up as many heat units as so many other places. Stays too cool (summer 2006 being the most recent exception) so the composting requires a lot of work. I don't have time to mess with it, and since no one is turning all the stuff in the forests, I decided to follow suit. that's why i sheet compost in my orchard. Easier, but requires patience.
I use combos of whatever i can get my hands on - you will have to see how your piles/bin/whatever function with the materials you have & in your particular climate. You have a colder winter than we do, but a much hotter & drier spring/summer/fall.
If your system is 'open' & you think it's too wet, then cover it. No harm done - just don't let it dry out or become totally saturated.
I think your piles will be ready sooner than you realize - by spring for certain. It's nice that you had soil to mix with it: some folks don't.
I know that people build a layered bed & plant right into it.
If you want to heat it up a bit, consider adding the pelleted from of Alfalfa - you can buy it at a feed store, and it's pretty inexpensive.
Consider it a science experiment!

I feel bad about the stuff "out front". All that straw and grass combo are not too attractive and I'm surprised the park manager here hasn't come and chewed on me! If I could afford to cover it all with compost, or potting soil, or SOMETHING dark and uniform I would but I can't afford it sooo... I'll just hope it breaks down FAST!!!

This is our rainy time and boy is it wet right now.

What if you placed pots on the 'front' side for camoflage purposes?
Or is it too tall to disguise?
Check out the alfalfa - i think i paid about $8 for a 50# bag.
If you have a wheelbarrow, spray it with water & the pellets will start to break apart from the moisture. This moist alfalfa 'meal' can be mixed into the pile, and it will definately heat things up.

Bio stack - that's what it was called! I remember now, heh. Does it heat up for you at all? Thanks!

Katye, that's what I had hoped we could build (the 3 bin system,) it just ain't happening anytime soon, and I gotta do something here. Rocky soil, sure, clay soil, yeah - but rocky clay soil - uh uh.

I've tried the sheet composting, a la lasagne gardening in a patch outside my door this summer, but I think everyone who has to walk past it daily is about the kick me in the shin. We've also been hot and dry this summer (you've undoubtedly heard about the *%^&# drought) so ntohing is going the way it's supposed to.

Pat, Katye's advice is excellent (as always). I will only add on saying that straw is heavy in cellulose - the tough stuff - so it will take it's sweet time breaking down, especially if it was put in full-size. Kind of like a phone book - if you put it in whole, it's going to be a while. But if you chop it up, tear it up and otherwise manually take it down in bulk and structure, it will work faster.

I use those alfalfa pellets to feed my horses, so you're basically getting the benefits of manure without the seeds - who could ask for more?

Thanks, all!

PC, I have found that a three stage system works well, just like the three bins but without building bins. I call it Diversity Style Composting. :~}

Here's how I do it. Beginning with a barrel composter, this is an inexpensive one, especially since I bought it at a garage sale (Eva, when she was cleaning out to move to DC) made by Gardener's Supply.

kitchen scraps into the barrel, maybe some coffee grounds and some grass clippings.
when the barrel is about half full, stuff has *begun* to compost
dump it all on the ground, use bales of straw on three sides for containment, cover with a bit of dry straw for odor, aesthetic (sp?) control
start over with the barrel

Let the 'pile' cook for a few months, adding coffee grounds, llama pellets (when available) and grass clippings
turning and watering weekly if your schedule allows. I often find it more like 2 or 3 times a month
This pile is where the cooking really goes on.

When the barrel is ready to dump again, usually about every 2 to 3 months, I shovel the 'pile' into a couple of plastic garbage cans, bottoms removed, that DH has drilled lots of holes in. Cover with some dry straw as above. If this stuff needs to continue cooking, or if I don't have need of the compost yet, I will dump the contents and reshovel it back into the plastic cans periodically, just to re-distribute it all.

So, the barrel begins the process, the pile really cooks it and the plastic cans are holding bins. Minimal odor and not too unsightly, although all this happens in a spot around the east side of the house that is out of sight.

HTH, let us know how it goes.
Cheers ~ Mary

This message was edited Oct 20, 2007 7:25 AM

We have a Composttumbler from Craigslist because someone got a new hobby. I'll bet there are other folks who are in the same situation. We got it 'cause I knew nobody would uturn it for me and DH has a bad back.

xx, Carrie

Psych - you're getting rain? Wow, I thought this was dry-time for your area.
what are the approximate dimensions of your pile? I bet we can come up with ingenious ways to disguise this so you don't get that knock on the door from Mr. Park mgr.
I'll be thinking about this today as I get wet planting bulbs & the last of my shrubs.

Hi Everyone - I love the compost forum. I haven't posted here much and tend to forget about coming here. I am glad to see familiar faces here. We build a bin last year and are just now reaping the benefits. We added bin number two a month or so ago and it is getting full rather quickly. It is not cooking, and we discussed what to do this week. Thank you whoever mentioned the alfalfa. That seems easy enough. I didn't know that would get it cooking quicker, but am so glad to know it. For some reason we end up with a whole lot more browns than greens and cooking is not something that we have seen a lot of.

Well, gonna go and read some more threads. So glad that I took the time to read this one.

Ruby

Ruby - if your spring/summer weather on the cool side (as is mine), your compost won't cook like it does for people living in warmer climates (southwest as an example).
That is why I use alfalfa to heat up the pile. It can be used as a fertilizer too - I mush it up & give to my roses - just not in massive quantities. I'm sure that others have used it successfully, but the lack of heat units (air) can slow the process down.

Katye, let's start a new thread about it ....

The area is too big to "cover" and it is slightly raised, or mounded as it is piled up, so putting a couple of flower pots in front will not do the camouflage job needed. I did not cut up the straw by running it through my lawn mower(or renting a shredder). I can see that would have been very helpful but all I had was a little 2 bladed electric mower with no catch bag, LOL, you can see my problem there! Oh well.. I'll just pray the thing will be ready by spring!!!

I have the offer of fresh rabbit droppings. Should I add them? Or will they be too hot? IF I do add them, do I want to work them into the straw, clippings and manure mix?

Can I nestle some potted plants INTO the straw/ clippings mix to winter them over? I have too many plants for my established beds, and friends have mailed me MORE. I will need them all when this new bed is ready to take plants in the spring! So many questions!! So many forums!! LOL

Yes, yes, no, yes and oh, I know!

>grin<

Yes on the rabbit poop. *Good* stuff. Mix it in good. If you don't have anything growing in there yet, you don't have to worry about it being "too hot" - that usually refers to the effect of too much fertilizer - nitrogen, usually - burning tender roots.

If you put pots in the mix, be sure to check them later - the compost will settle as it breaks down and you might end up with 1/2 covered pots.

Psych - I meant lotsa pots!
Rabbit poop + time = happy plants.
Lucky you.
Do you have enough of a pile to mound up around your potted plants?
If the winter is mild, you'll probably do fine. But if it gets too cold for your potted plants, the chance of losing them is pretty high. Keeping the mix up around the top of the container will help insulate them.
Would Mr. Park mgr. be opposed to a flower bed? Because that IS what you are working towards. Does he need a visual? Does anyone else in your area have a flower bed you could direct him to?

PC - start a thread about what?
Oh boy, soggy brain from all the rain: I'm slow. "alfalfa pellet usage" Got it!

Well... I know the manager sees how much of an improvement I've made here at this lot, it was truly awful when we bought it! But a 12 x 20 feet piece of ground that is mostly mixed straw and grass clippings is NOT attractive and it is RIGHT next the road thru the park! Like I said no way I have enough money to buy something to cover it all up with potting soil, manure or ???

I have another lasagna bed that is at the back of the lot, that one is not so noticeable. The one out front was low grade nasty cheap white rock that I had someone haul away. (I ran an ad in craiglist and got someone to take the bulk of it! Less labor on my part and NO dump fee... Yahooooo!!)

I think it might be a good idea to prepare for a discussion with him.
If you emphasize the positive (the improvements you have already made), dedication (your preparatory work looking to the future) and underscore this with your "certainty of his reasonableness", he will most likely respond with an affirmation of what you are trying to accomplish.
People that do not garden often forget that it takes preparation & time for plants to grow. And some expect everything to be evergreen.
Gently lead him - it usually works.

I would participate in an alfalfa thread.

Ruby

Pat, you might want to make sure the discussion starts on a positive note by doing a pre-emptive strike up conversation, get to him before he complains!

If it's flat, you can take a piece of clear or black plastic and spread it over it - makes it look kind of official, aids in heat gathering (increased break down)makes sure nothing blows away in winter winds. I also have invested in a bunch of (rather ugly) tarps from Big Lots at like $7 apiece. They don't last as long as the more expensive ones, but they get the job done.

You could also put small (amusing?) signs out - "Earth work in progress", "Dirt happens", "You should see my kitchen" - invoke people's sense of humor while letting them know you're not just trashing the place.

How about "do not disturb, worms at work".

THANK YOU all for your suggestions. I like the tarp idea and "Do not disturb, worms at work" would be just the right touch of whimsey! I have a bucket or pot I can use, an old shovel handle and cement I can mix. I'll have to get a piece of wood from DH and I'll be all set to get a sign up!!!

LOL Been keeping up with this post with nothing to add. Had to let you know I love the sign idea!!!!

Am hoping Pat thinks to post a pic....

Oh, that would be nice.

It is a good thing that my husband and I live in the country. We have piles of manure and piles of mulch in several spots in our yard. We are also building a walkway for the largest flower bed out front and that has definitely been a work in progress. Let me re-phrase....hubby is building. ha-ha

There us a rock pile running from one end of our deck to the other end, which runs from one end of the house to the other. No one ever said this was going to be a quick project. Months go by in between working on it and it sitting idle. During this past summer weeds grew several feet tall through the rocks and basically blocked the beauty of the flower beds from one view point.

So, if folks get offended, they best just close their eyes when driving by our place. We do have some adjoining property being sold. The view from that lot looks directly in our back yard. I am hoping that these folks will understand and not have a problem with us "farming" here.

Ruby

WELLLLL....I am quite happy with my Mantis two-stage tumbler and it isn't difficult for me to turn daily when I remember to do so.
Each drum can be emptied seperately when needed. I do advise to empty all of the contents after a few months into another pile and let it continue to work through the winter or whatever.
I just don't know enough to make compost in 3 weeks as I see advertised with too many commercial composters.I have had my Mantis since July this year and I only got a few shovel fulls last month which were of quality to use. BUTTT....next spring I should have a100 pounds or so to use which will be great stuff.

Good luck with it LostIndian. I am l ooking forward to using my first batch soon.

Ruby

Thanks, rubyw! I need to empty my bins in the next few days and I'll try to remember to post my yeild.

I apologize for jumping in late here but I wanted to add a few comments.

First, I have 2 Biostack bins, and I love them. They are much easier for me to turn than my old solid plastic bin, and therefore I actually do flip the contents. I use one for curing almost done stuff, and the other for active composting.

Also, I have sheet composted several beds with outstanding results. I usually cover them with burlap, which is technically called "interbay mulch". I would advise against using platic tarps, though. To encourage composting, the materials need adequate moisture (rain and snow) and also air.

Last comment: I don't think mulching with grass clippings and straw looks so bad. Topping with shredded leaves might look better to you, and is great for the soil. Every fall in prepping my beds I spread whatever compost I have then mulch all beds with shredded leaves and/or grass clippings. This practice has greatly increased my worm population in the last few years.

Good luck to you,
Karen

Not late at all, Karen, we were just hanging out over a cup of coffee, knowing you'd show up.... >smile< ...

Did you bring cookies?

I did.

x, Carrie

Oooo - snickerdoodles, I hope....

Are there any left?

Hi Pagan,
I picked up a decent composter at eBay that I like; you can see the same one here - http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=Soilsaver+Composter

The only downside with it is that you have to dig *into* it to turn it. You can do that with a hoe, or I bought an "aerator" at GardenersSupply that's pretty cool.

Yuppers, I have (believe or not) 2 of those aerators - does that make me a compost junkie or *what*?

I've ordered the Biostacks, we'll see how it goes! I'm looking forward to working in much smaller quantities than a huge pile, lol.

Pagancat: You'll love it, I promise.

Karen

I promise to tell you when I hit the love stage!