Last year I planted 5 daffodil bulbs under a Saucer Magnolia. Fell in love with them.
This year I bought 370 different kinds of Daffodils. And I'm not through after reading Critter's "sale" thread. LOL An ongoing plan will be to encircle my fishing pond with daffodils and other spring blooming bulbs. I don't plan to line them up like toy soldiers going around the pond. The "line" will have "movement".
Here's the plan on paper:
Plant in drifts around pond of like kind, like color 8" deep in clay w/amendments
Drift #1
5 bulbs in a planting hole /Hole 12" x 12"
3 ft space to the next planting hole
130 Yellow on Yellow bulbs = 104 ft of yellows, 26 planting holes 5 in each hole
Planting hole 1-16 #80 King Alfred Type 18"
17-18 #10 Yellow Cheerfulness 15"
19-22 #20 Carlton 14"
23-24 #10 Tahiti 14"
25-26 #10 Hillstar
Drift #2
5 bulbs in a planting hole /Hole 12" x 12"
3 ft space to the next planting hole
50 Yellow with Orange Cups = 40 ft of Yellow with Orange Cups, 10 planting holes 5 in each hole
27-34 #50 Jetfire
Drift #3
5 bulbs in a planting hole /Hole 12" x 12"
3 ft space to the next planting hole
20 White with Orange Cups = 16 ft of White with Orange Cups, 4 planting holes, 5 in each hole
37 - 38 #10 Barrett Brownings 16"
39 - 40 #10 Geranium 16"
Drift #4
5 bulbs in a planting hole /Hole 12" x 12"
3 ft space to the next planting hole
40 White with Yellow Cups = 32 ft of White with Yellow Cups, 8 planting holes, 5 in each hole
41 - 44 #20 Ice Follies 18"
45 - 46 #10 Ice King 12- 18"
47 - 48 #10 Cassata 12"
Drift #5
5 bulbs in a planting hole /Hole 12" x 12"
3 ft space to the next planting hole
50 White on White Bulbs = 40 ft of White on White, 10 planting holes, 5 in each hole
49 - 56 #40 Calgary 16"
57 - 58 #10 Cheerfulness 15"
Drift #6
5 bulbs in a planting hole /Hole 12" x 12"
3 ft space to the next planting hole
80 Mixed colors and sizes = 64 ft of mixed colors, 16 planting holes, 5 in each hole
hole 59 - 74 #80 mixed
Whether or not it will come to pass depends on tomorrow's brain storming ideas. I still need to measure the upper outer banks of the pond to determine how many years of buying it will take me to completely go around it. If anyone sees a problem, tell me. If you think it will work ok, let me know that too.
Deborah
This message was edited Sep 26, 2007 2:54 AM
Plans on paper to plant daffodils in drifts
What a fabulous idea! Oh, how I want to see your pond in spring... and I can only imagine it in 5 or 10 years!
I have to say, I about choked on my popcorn when I saw "370 different kinds" of daffs... even if you were buying them just 5 or 10 at a time, oh golly, the mind boggles... and then I scrolled down and realized you meant 370 bulbs, LOL.
I like your idea of organizing them into drifts of "like" colors. Within each drift, you might consider alternating between the different varieties, so that bloom times get spread out throughout the drift. For example, if you have 15 bulbs of "A", 20 of "B" and 10 of "C" then your groups of 5 could be in this order: A B B C A B A B B C rather than A A A then B B B B and C C.
I also think I would plant the mixed varieties drift in a visually separate area of the pond perimeter... otherwise, your eye goes from one color to the next, flowing smoothly along, and then suddenly there's a hodgepodge section... it's a discontinuity, but if it happens on a separate section of the bank, or around the dock or a tree or some other focal point, it might work better.
But when you plant 100's of daffs, it's hard to go wrong!
I'd also suggest checking with some local folks about planting depth. People in the south seem to plant bulbs deeper, maybe to help keep them cool. But if I put a bulb 8 inches down in my amended clay, I don't think I'd ever see it again... The rule of thumb seems to be to plant at a depth equal to 2-3 times the diameter of the bulb... With my fairly dense soil, I go with twice the diameter, often with some mulch on top, and that works out fine for me. However, 8 inches might be just the ticket in your area.
Oh Critter, your input is just what the doctor ordered! That's a great suggestion about considering the bloom times. Within each color group I do have early, mids and late varieties.
I wasn't sure about how the mixed varieties would play into the flow. Good point about making sure to plant those in a seperate area of the pond. I do have several trees and a wooded area towards the back. My yard is large, so I'm sure I can find a seperate area if I don't use them around the pond in some way..
I'll double check my planting depth with some folks around here that plants them. I have a DG friend here that's a bulb queen. I'll ask her.
Thanks so much!
Deborah
I'm considering planting options here, too. I've already got an island bed in the middle of the back yard... after some trial and error planting, it's got white daffs at the back (both early and late varieties), yellow daffs in the front half (both early and late varieties again), and a "river" of Muscari latifolium running between the two halves (it's a kidney-shaped bed, so there's nothing geometric about this arrangement).
I've been planting shrubs in a little curving border (5 to 10 feet wide, maybe 30 feet long) in front of a fence row of trees, behind the island bed (little strip of grass runs between). The daffs etc. that I'm buying this year will all be planted in that border with the shrubs, and then I'll mulch over the whole thing. With the color block drifts in the island bed, I was thinking that it might be better to just do clumps of varieties and randomize the colors across the bed. I did order 300 M. latifolium to create a sweep of blue to tie it all together visually.
I could also divide the border into 3 drifts according to color (yellow, bicolor, and white). But at present I'm leaning toward a more randomized look. To keep myself from trying to be overly balanced with regard to distribution of color or bloom time (deliberate randomness, besides being an oxymoron, never really quite works... it ends up looking contrived), I thought I would organize them in a different way: I'm considering planting them alphabetically, from left to right. LOL! But since I'm also planning to label my varieties, I think that could help a lot if the markers start migrating as markers sometimes do.
I also considered planting in groups of 5, as you're doing, so as to have some repetition and balance across the border. I may still do so, but right now I'm leaning toward the simpler approach of just planting what I have (which could be 5 or 15 or 25 of a variety) in a patch... more bulbs just equals wider planting hole. Hmm, I can tell right now that I've been over-thinking this again!
Oh, good grief, I can't believe I rambled on and on so incoherently above! Basically, my planting plans for adding daffs to my new shrub border boil down to this:
I think a mixture of colors will form a nice backdrop for the swaths of white and yellow daffs in the island bed.
Planting in groups by variety rather than just tossing all the daffs into a basket to randomize them will (I hope) give me the look of an established planting, where single daffs have multiplied over the years to form big clumps.
I'm going to "randomize" the colors and bloom times by planting the daffs in alphabetical order from left to right. This will also give me a chance of figuring out which is which if/when markers get misplaced.
Input/comments welcome!
Over-thinking is not a bad thing. LOL I just have to see it on paper, about two legal pads full until I get it in my mind how I want to plant them. I know there will be twicking here and there at planting time. Just with this many bulbs I don't want to be digging them up next year because I didn't plan enough or think this thing through.
I do use colored pencils on my paper plans to actually look at the color flow.
I bought a few muscari too but not near enough for a blue river effect. Bought a slew of alliums too and then discovered they bloom after the daffs are finished. Oh well, I'll make a plan for them too I suppose.
Best of luck to you, Critter. I like the sound of your island bed. I can visualize a color block running through it.
Just do another drift with the alliums... they'll give you something to look at when the daff drifts start looking tatty.
Hit up one of the fall sales for muscari... I've got a "river" of grape hyacinths running along the curving border of my front bed, and it's one of my favorite spring features of that bed! Last year, I had green foliage from them most of the winter, too. I started out with a mix of colors, but I think the regular blue ones out-multiplied the others, so now it's mostly one shade of blue with a few highlights.
Love that picture! That blue really stands out and the curve just makes it a flowing river. I'm waiting on the Nov. sales too. I know I can't afford to do the outline of the whole pond but the sales will help get me off to a good start.
I'll plant those alliums in drifts too. Good idea.
Deborah,
for daffodil advice in South GA you might want to take a look at the Florida Daffodil Society
http://www.fladaff.com/
the test gardens are in Tallahassee FL, which is pretty close to both of us
They have a new book out, "Daffodils in Florida", and it tells a lot about the old, tough daffodils in N. Florida and S. Georgia and what they like best, also the historical info was pretty interesting. It's well illustrated. I'm going to try my luck this fall, too!
Thanks, Erin. I was needing more information about planting Daffs in the south. I'll read up on this now.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/127/
Cordeledawg: You might find this article useful.
That's a bookmark keeper too for sure. Thanks Gloria. Should I mix in Bulb Booster fertilizer with my soil & sand mixture that goes back in the hole right before putting the bulbs in? I get mixed reviews on fertilizing at planting time.What do most southern gardeners do about fertilizing?
You could use a low or zero Nitrogen fertilizer. You don't want to stimulate top growth for plants that are going to face winter freezes. Some people put in bone meal or super phosphate an inch or two under the bulb. Daffodils don't need a lot of fertilizer, though. They go for generations in cemeteries and abandoned pecan orchards with no fertilizer at all.
edited to say "under" the bulb
This message was edited Sep 30, 2007 11:04 AM
You are exactly right about that. Mother Nature takes good care of her own.
I've scratched my original plans and wrote more plans after reading critter's suggestions and Gloria's article and of course buying more bulbs.""snicker"" I like the information that White Flower Farms has on planting in drifts also. http://www.whiteflowerfarm.com/daffodils-in-drifts.html
I'm encircling a fishing pond on the high slopes. Since the pond is in the shape of a horseshoe, I'll be mirroring the drifts on each side:
drifts of solid yellows (234') 280 bulbs, followed by
drifts of yellow with orange centers (76') 95 bulbs, followed by,
drifts of white with yellow centers (40') 52 bulbs, turning into the curve of the horseshoe,
drifts of solid white on each end (120') 150 bulbs, with drifts of 80 mixed bulbs in the middle. There are trees and hardscapes that will be used to break the colors. Thanks Jill and Gloria!!!!
Scattered about in raised beds throughout my front yard will be white with orange centers, Barrett Browning, Geranium, and Professor Einstein.
I sure hope my plan works out ok. Oh my acheing back and knees!
Deborah.
This message was edited Oct 13, 2007 8:33 PM
Wow, that's a lot of daffs. Deborah, that's going to be stunning! I can just picture it... and I'm sure you can too!
Now you need a couple thousand crocus bulbs to toss into the planting holes as you're filling in the dirt on top of the daffs... I mean, as long as you're digging... LOL!
Later on you might think of some other bulbs to carry the space on beyond daffodil season. Don't forget to leave space for the bulbs to multiply. If they are happy they will. It sounds like it will be spectacular.
This message was edited Oct 14, 2007 7:35 AM
Thank you both! I guess "other" bulbs can be next year's project. LOL
LOL!
I'm planning to put crocus bulbs in on top of the daffodil bulbs I'm planting this fall, since I can put them into the same hole as the daffs. :-)
I've planted a smaller area by spacing bulbs every 6 to 8 inches, and they'll look great eventually when they start to divide... but I've decided that in the future I'm going to put bulbs in clumps, even if I'm planting in drifts... at least 5 bulbs a little closer together (maybe 4 to 6 inches) and then a bit of space before the next clump... that way, I get the look of a more established planting sooner. Of course, I'll have to divide them a little sooner too, but that's OK.
Suzy (Illoquin) wrote a great post about planting daffs... I wonder if I can find it... Ah hah!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/701974/
Wow, that WAS interesting reading. Thanks.
Thanks Critter for that reference. Its worth putting in my daffodil folder.
The daffodil planting at the historic site next to me was planted about 1950. It covers about 5 acres. There are some seedlings, but they are definitely not up to the quality of the bulb divisions. The petals have very poor substance and usually become shredded before they finish blooming. One of the nicest surprises about this planting are the poets daffodils that come on late. The earliest one's are the paperwhites. They make me cry, so I don't like them as well as the real daffodils, but they are early so they are always a pleasure to see.
The daffodils were over planted with daylilies, but most of them have been destroyed by overzealous city workers who want to mow them down.
Gloiria, you mean you can plant a daylily plant on top of where the daffy is planted and the daff can still poke thru?
Right. They don't bloom at the same time. And you can keep going with other plants so that you have something there in every season.
In another thread here some one was planting oriental lilies--which would make a stand after the day lilies. I am especially partial to tiger lilies for late summer.
The daffodils here are planted under pecan trees so they get winter sun, but some protection through the hot summer.
You wouldn't want to plant the daylilies directly on top of a stack of daffodils. They should be planted in between so that each has space to grow.
This message was edited Oct 14, 2007 8:58 AM
I just recently planted some daylilies and the ground is still soft and workable around them. Hummmm... You've just given me another daffy drift!
The daylilies here that were overplanted with the daffodils were Hemerocallis fulva "Kwanzo" They are tall 'wild' orange day lilies that have double and triple flowers. There were also some of the single orange 'ditch' day lilies that come on a little earlier. So they are all of one kind and they look good in a naturalized situation out in the pecan orchard.
Naturalizing daffodils and daylilies and other lilies is sort of like painting a landscape. You want to be able to view it from a distance, as well as for a close up stroll through the flowers.
The "island bed" in my backyard is daffs and daylilies... I planted clumps of daffodil bulbs in fall, and I used the dying foliage as a guide for getting my new DLs planted between the daff clumps like Gloria said. I've got oriental lilies in another area, but I do like the idea of putting a few lilies down the middle of this bed too at some point... I think it might be my 'Rubrum' lilies that have been doing so well out there, and maybe I can move some divisions of them.
Lilies are so elegant, and such a surprise to find them blooming away when you had forgot all about them.
Lilies? Asiatic, orientals or orienpets can be put in the bottom of the daffodil holes, is that right? Which ones?, I have all three from a coop I need to plant.
I think I'd put them on one side of the daffodil holes, rather than right below the daffs... As I recall, my lilies can start popping out of the ground before the daffs are really done, so I don't know how well they'd do stacked on top of one another. But maybe somebody else has tried this?
Asiatic's are early, orientals are late so they can be planted to suceed one another. I don't know about orenpets.
I would be inclined to give them their own space, because they will multiply. Critter is the advocate of stacking. Hopefully she will advise.
How about while I'm digging, I just make the drench wider. That should work.
The only bulbs I "stack" are smaller bulbs like crocus, muscari, grecian windflowers, scilla, etc... Following the "as deep as 2 to 3 times the diameter of the bulb" rule, these little bulbs don't need to be planted very deeply, so you can put the daffs in the hole, fill in some dirt, then place the little bulbs (I usually try to place them between the bigger bulbs and not absolutely directly on top if I can manage it) and finish filling the hole. It's a nice way to plant more flowers without any more effort in digging.
I think you could plant lilies pretty close to spring flower bulbs like daffs, but I wouldn't put them directly underneath the other bulbs, and giving them a bit of space for their very own sounds good.
Good advice, Thank you critter. I'll put the lilies over to the side or behind the daffs.
Good grief, Deb! my head is spinning! Are you planning to plant all those bulbs by yourself! Oh, my back is aching for you just thinking about it!
Do you have to put your bulbs in the fridge for a month before you plant them? 370 bulbs would take up a lot of room in the fridge! LOL I haven't planted any bulbs in years but when I did, I always put them in the fridge during Dec. before I planted them in January. (or maybe it was in Nov. before I planted in Dec. ) sometimes our weather is too warm in Dec. so if we plant them then they start blooming too early--depends on what is happening, weather-wise, in any one particular year.
Anyway, Deb, I think you are going to have just an absolutely stunning garden around your pond. Definitely plenty of photos are in order when they do bloom. Can't wait to see the results.
One year, when we lived in another house, I had a wooded area of trees to the side of our yard and there were so many leaves under the trees which had fallen over the years and made a wonderful mulch. I didn't have time to really plant the daffs so I just took the bulbs and threw them randomly in under the trees. They sank down into the leaves and the leaves that continued to fall covered them enough to protect them until they bloomed. The effect in the early spring was beautiful because the daffs bloomed before the trees leafed out so the daffs had plenty of sunshine while they were blooming and then as the trees leafed out, the daffs went dormant anyway. Just thought I would throw in that little tidbit of information about how I plant bulbs! LOL.
critter, I don't think you were rambling. I have enjoyed this thread but it makes me tired just to think about all that work ahead of you. Deb!
I know, Marsue, my head is spinning too and my sunroom is packed full with cardboard boxes with bulbs in them. I didn't put the bulbs in the refridgerator. I'd have to buy two frigs. just to hold the bulbs. The Daff society link says not to put them in there anyway. So I figure they know best! I think I'll invest in an auger next year.
That is a great story about throwing the daffs into the leaf piles and they grew! Wow! Now that's how to save your back. My mother used scatter them on the ground to plant that way too, but she did dig holes to bury them though.
Good ideas and info from all; can't wait to see pics! I'm doing drifts around all the mature trees and through the lawn too. I was very fortunate a couple of days ago to have 4 friends with shovels in hands, so I showed them general areas and said "dig holes this deep, anywhere you want, any irregular, random size or shape you want". I already had all the varieties and colors separated into different boxes designated for certain areas. Then all I had to do was place the bulbs in the holes (anywhere from 5 to 30) so that one drift bleeds into the next. I'm really excited to see the results!
The 290 new daffodil bulbs along with the 500+ I brought from the old garden was a daunting task, but now that 3/4 of them are in the ground I'm breathing easier. Thank goodness the ones I've had for years have much smaller bulbs than new, Dutch grown bulbs- much easier to plant! I have to wonder at the striking size difference. My blooming size bulbs I've had for years are often 1/4 the size of one from Holland. Guess that's why bulbs are Holland's #1 export, lol.
Neal, that's a brilliant idea! If we could just get a little rain this week, I could try the same thing here... :-)
Hey, Neal, I've been procrastinating on ordering those crocus... VE does offer a price break on quantities of 500 or more... could you use another 100 or 200 or ? I'm looking at the giant crocus (C. vernus, especially the lavender mix) and at C. sib. 'Tricolor', maybe also 'Firefly'. LMK!
critter, you know thats like saying "could you use another bite of chocolate", LOL! So, sure! The lavender mix would be lovely for my "Jan Memorial garden"(Jan was the friend who lived here before me and loved purple. She died last November), and I was torn between Tricolor and Firefly and only got Tricolor, so I'd love to pick up 100 'Firefly'.
Are you adding any species tulips this year? Let me know if you'd like to split any good deals you find on those too if you are :)
I think I'm just going to concentrate on that shrub border where I want to add daffs... I've got 200 bigger daffs and 100 short/mini daffs on the way, plus 300 M. latifolium for a nice little "stream" of blue to border them. I'm thinking I "need" 100 or 200 'Spring Beauty' scilla to plant with the smaller daffs, plus several hundred C. vernus to overplant the larger daffs. The C. sib. I just want because I can't resist them, especially at VE's price, and I can always find places to plant crocus. There's not as much of a price break for getting 500 Tricolor, so I think I'll probably mix and match those... maybe 300 Tricolor plus 100 Firefly, and another 100 Firefly for you. :-)
How many of the lavender mix do you want? Once you get to 500, the price break continues for every 100 that you add... There's a further price break when you reach 1000, but I'm not sure we can use *quite* that many between us, LOL.
I could use 250 of the lavender mix. With shipping it averages 16cents a bulb, a great deal! I may share with a friend who's wanting some crocus too. I often get pretty generous once the back pain sets in, lol.