Newbie at raising cats.

I believe Thea "Oh dear, that doesn't look good" assessment was accurate. Either the excess moisture or the milkweed that it was feeding on wasn't fresh. My BST is history! Bahumbug!!! It was the one that took a ride into the house with me, and I thought I could make a difference for it. It didn't work out. Sign!!!

At the mean time; the Tersa is gaining in size. It's eating away and continues to thrive. Wish me lucks with this one.
Kim

Hey Lily, keep your chin up. I have raised both gulf frits and now raising Monarchs. Some do die and you don't have an explanation for it. It is heart breaking. But then when you see the others, like your Tersa, eating like crazy and gaining weight and doing great, it helps you feel better. Just put your energy into that one, if it is the only one left, and keep it happy and healthy and you will be well rewarded for your efforts. When you see him start to chrysalid and then when he comes out and you get to set him free, nothing like it in the world. I was kicking myself over and over and over every time I lost one, and I lost some in pretty weird and pretty bad ways. But I just turn my energy over to the ones that are still here and really want to survive and put all my energy into them and believe me they appreciate it and will reward you in the end. You are doing a great service, don't forget that.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Leslie

Hi Leslie;
The Tersa continues to do well. Its appetite is WOW! I'm not sure if it has instar any but it looks pretty healthy. I feed it every morning before I get my breakfast. lol, the thing finished at least 10-leaves branch of Pentas an evening over night. Here is my cutie!

Ok, experienced Tersa's growers advise please. This Tersa rarely stops eating until the plant has nothing left but a little nub. It has been a "neat eater" it works methodically from the tips of the leave to the branch, and "inhales" them all - branch included. But this morning I found it wandering with most of my Pentas untouched. I've seen a leave that was half-eaten. Left - over from Tersa's meal? Unlikely from what I've observed its behavior. Is it getting ready to instar? Input please?

More likely he's getting ready to pupate! My BST cats do the same thing. Sometime around the time they decide to stop eating, they will flush out their little systems by having a major poo, which is watery, rather than the little pellets. Oops, I see I'm repeating myself, I already explained that in an earlier post on this thread!! Anyway, if he's wandering around and not interested in eating anymore, things are going according to plan, don't worry about it!!! He's just more interested now in nesting than in eating.

I'm fascinated with the little guy. He has been doing alot of "wandering" around most of the time this morning. His size must have increased time and a half! I recorded his activity in a 10 mins clip. on my video this morning. Hopefully I can share that with someones over the Holidays get together. lol. :-)

I would really consider getting it out of the glass. I don't think they can climb the glass and pupate, that may have led to the demise of the Monarch. Try plastic next time. I use the deep glad plastic ware. They can grip the sides and have no problem doing a chrysalis on it.

Sheila;
On one of the thread, it is said that Tersa differs from BST cat. in that they try to burry themselves in the dirt and fallen leaves to pupate. After a day of wandering, it is now under the bottom of some dried papers for it to hide. I'll check and see its new development later (with minimal distubances as possible).

Yes, the Tersa is a moth. I'm sorry, I thought you also had a BST getting ready to pupate, guess I was thinking about it and the Monarch. Some of the BST that I had, crawled up a stick (microwaved to kill anything on it). We all loose some in the process, and learn from our mistakes. I really have enjoyed this new hobby, and being able to help the butterflies and moths too.

Sheila;
That's so cool looking ?moth? This is my 1st try and I'm fascinate with these little guys.

Ok, here is the tough question. Does the Tersa "flushes" it system like BST when it pupate? I can't see my Tersa, but a globe of messy fluid. It "water broke"? What? ooooh, I'm not a midwife!!!

Lily, I really don't want to hijack your thread, but I've got a question for Sheila. I've got a BST that did pupate on the side of a plastic bin. And I was worried that when it ecloses, it would have problems holding onto something, unless I put a stick or something in there. Usually, I'll have parsley plants in the bin with them, but this bin was just the "cat" bin, and he was the only one that wandered off a plant. Of course, there will be netting on the top, so that I don't come home to a butterfly flitting about that room. :)

Thanks much!

Indy_Lily, most every question we have about these precious or gardening topic is welcome to share. I'm at a lost at my Tersa development, anxious to hear some input... no activity this morning. Thea, have you got some experience to share?
Kim

IN_Lily, it usually will hold on to the empty chrysalis until it's wings dry. But just in case it fell don't put in anything sharp that would tear it's wings, but you can put a plastic container (butter tub, etc.)upside down in the bottom so it can climb up high enough to pump out it's wings.
Lily_love, the pic with the parsley is a Black Swallowtail (BST) butterfly.
The Glad containers work so well for me. I am now separating each caterpillar after hearing one of the others on DG saying a virus or wasp infected a whole group. I use the Glad Press N Seal over the floral foam in the bottom of a pudding cup. I just prick the plastic and stick in a new stem or leaf, and frass rolls right off and keeps the moisture away from the cats. It is easy to clean out everyday, since I work. When they pupate I take the sticks and put it in a block of foam in a larger cage as they get close to eclose time.
I am so glad the two of you and others are taking time to help our friends be safe!

Lily_love, Sorry I posted at the same time....
Here is a link to a post that Debnes had with good tips when she raised a Tersa moth.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/769278/

Sheila;
Now I'm a little concern, perhaps I didn't provide soil on the 'cage' for it to pupate. It's a waiting game. I don't dare to disturb the thing now, since it's appear to fragile a stage to do any changes. Thanks for the link. Debnes did a fantastic documentation on these. Congrats to her!!!
Kim

Didn't she! She has a whole presentation on all types of bfs and moths and the larval plants, etc. She gave a presentation at one of the local nurseries and had in excess of 40 people show up.

As for the soil, can you make a paper funnel and put just a 1/2 cup in? Or is it already pupating? I will give Debnes a call and tell her to dmail you or get on the thread.
Sheila

Hi Kim,
I see you have a little nursery there. Welcome to the world of cat raising and bfly conservation! i have a question about something you typed in a thread up there.

Did you put them in the microwave?

As far as the Tersa is concerned; they don't pupate like butterfly cats do, or like many moths do. Tersas need a soil bed to pupate on. clean leaves as litter over the top of the soil. The soil has to be clean, (not from outside)..Clean potting soil is fine, just check for any ants or other small critters. The container needs to have plenty of ventilation. It's never too late to fix it up as long as the cat is still alive and well.

Here is what I did:
I took a 2 quart gladware container and using it upright (on one end), I drilled several small holes in the bottom end (for drainage when watering the cuttings). I put foil over that send giving enough room to indent around the lip for the lid to close tightly and taped it across the opening on the bottom end. Put clean potting soil in, then watered and drained it good . I stuck only one good cutting in a day. They usually were pretty healthy cuttings with at least 12 leaves. I closed the container with a piece of chiffon fabric clamped across using the gladware lid. The lid was cut out like a rim all the way around (about a half inch from the sides), to seal from any small predators.
See the tread Sheila put in for how it should look.
The tersa pupated on the soil when it was ready. The one I had was about 2 1/2 inches long.

Hope this helps some. let me know..

debnes

Yo, Debnes, that was me that said something about mw the sticks. I wash them then zap them in the microwave to kill any critters that I can't see, before using them in my cages.
LOL! Sorry for misleading you.

LOLROFL! Oh lordy!! my eyes are a little weary now. I was wondering where that came from, it scared me. The chrysalis in the pic looked a little blistered.. I had no idea! Criminy!


debnes

hahahaha

Tehehehehe, now that the issue is cleared up. I understood Sheila's rationale when she toasted the twigs for the BST cats to climb on ect. Remember reading about granny bathed her puppy and wanted to put it in the microwave to dry it out? I hope and prayed that was just fiction from some yellow journalism. lol
Debnes; My Tersa apparently is pupating. I haven't seen any movement for the last 48 hours. It worked its way down to the bottom of the jar and burried itself in the coffee filter paper that I put down for it to crawl around. I'm fearful that if I make any changes now may hurt the little thing. Only thing is lacking is some soil in there. I've enough pentas branches that sit in a forist's tube, so they remain fresh. There is enough air since I didn't seal the top of the jar, but have a mesh-like top on the jar. My concern is, there is no soil and needed moiture that it may become dried and dehydrated while pupating. :(

Okie dokie Kim,
It should have enough moisture in its body to pupate. No worries, we'll just wait now.

debnes

Debnes;
How long is the wait? I'm not getting impatience, but would like the info. so I can get ready when it becomes ready to be released back to the wild.

Kim,
It took 10 days for the one I raised. From Aug 29-30th-Sept 7-8th

Also, Tersas are nocturnal so it should eclose sometime after midnight instead of the daytime like butterflies and skippers do.

debnes

Such helpful information! Thanks a million debnes. I've a way to go. Until I find better cage to provide for other cats. I've seen this BST outdoor for the few days, but refrain myself from rescuing it. It's getting bigger by the day....

Is this guy on your milkweed plants Lily? Looks like another Monarch cat, not a BST. The BST doesn't have those little feelers. I hope no birdies spot him, and he gets to make his pretty chrysalis!
My 23rd BST just eclosed this morning. She doesn't seem real eager to leave the crate, I think she knows it's grey and cloudy out today.
Your Tersa sounds like a lot more work than my BST's Lily! I forgot that they burrow. I hope your guy makes it, you've put a lot of work and a lot of care into him, and it would be so great to see the finished product, flying!!

Thea;
I've put off going to Wally World in search of the cage. Thanks for sharing the above pics. That does it. I'll be back later. Gotta do something about the baby Monarch! This morning I found a big bird, not herons, but appear to be Hawk perching on my Koi-pond. I'll need some colorful flag or something to deter those from my kois, while at it, I'll get something for my cats. :-)

Yikes, you've got your lil hands full, Kim! But just remember, you can't save everything!!! I hate myself when I can't help a creature, but we can only do so much. I just let my new BST out to fly away, and she's the first one to be real slow about it, normally, they fly right out the window and they're gone. Well, this little girl didn't seem anxious to leave, even though she'd eclosed a good four hours ago. Skies here are very grey, and they're forecasting rain this afternoon and tomorrow, so I really wanted her to get her bearings before all that happens, but she just sailed over to a palm tree in the front yard and she stayed there. So I've been out there in the garden closest to the tree, watching her, so fearful that a bird would come along and snatch her. She sat there for ages, and just now took off, but over to our neighbor's yard, and I know he uses pesticides, so I'm just having a fit!!!!!! But there's just so much you can control, and then you have to just hope.....
But your koi!!! I never thought about it, but people with koi ponds must have to worry about hawks often!!! Okay, no koi pond for me!!!!!

Thea;
Sadly upon returning from WW. My monarch's cat. is no where to be seen! I'm a day late, and a dollar short. Isn't the way it goes sometimes? Sign!!! The good news is though, I now have a cage. Future looks bright for some of the more fortunate cats. I should have known. Birds are migrating South in drow. Don't get me wrong, I love those birds too. I guess mother nature could be so indifference sometimes.
As far as Koi ponds. We've the Koi pond over a year now. Our furkids managed to keep the birds and herons at bay. Until we just newly installed a biofilter pump with UV light to help keep the water clear.....one plus, other minus. Now the water is crystal clear make the colorful Kois and gold fish more inviting to the predator birds. Can't win them all. We're getting ready to put the bird net down to help the falling leaves, that too will protect the fish from others as Fall arrives. Just imagine though, you have a handful beautiful Kois, gold fish, shubunkens, then one morning you're out there by your water garden, then you see Kois' babies, gold fish's babies. The rewards out weighs the negative. Chin up!
Kim

Wow Kim, your pond sounds like a lot of fun!!!!
It's a shame about the Monarch cat, I know how you feel. A few days ago I spotted maybe three BST cats on the little bit of parsley I have left growing in my garden, and I said to myself "I'll bring them inside tomorrow". Well, next day they were gone. I felt bad. But the birdies must eat too, you have to look at it that way!! There's a reason for everything....... Sometimes it feels like Mother Nature wants to keep us all in our places; SHE'S in charge, not us mere humans.....

Lily_Love, that was a pretty big Monarch cat; could be it crawled off to pupate! They will usually make the chrysalis on something other than the milkweed. Careful where you step out there. I a couple days, see if you can find the chrysalis on a flower pot, fence, plant marker, etc. If you locate it, then you can remove it and bring it in.

Thanks Sheila,
I'll be on the search that's for sure. I've seen one pulpated on my Scotchbroom last year. So several weeks ago, I picked one up and placed it there hoping that it would be safe. No such hope this year. It too vanished. Mother nature is in charge....

Sheila;
Sure enough I've just found my Monarch cat. It's was on the ground, appear sad looking and a small spider was seen nearby. Was it paralized by the spider's vector? It has little movement left. I wished I could have found the cat yesterday. Has this happened to your cats.? I don't know what to do?

I can't bear to leave the little cat. out to the eliments. So I found a little milkweed pot, and keep it in my greenhouse for now.

I've exciting news! My Tersa! Likes debnes has assured me. It's alive and well. I believe there is little movement while it's pupating. Yooooohooooooo!
And since it's noctunal, I'll take its housing jar outdoor, so when it ready to eclose, it would be on its way? The weather is mild still, little rain in the forecast. Ahhh, I'll keep it in my little 'greenhouse' and keep the door open. :-)

I've exciting news! My Tersa is indeed safe and doing its things. Not obvious outwardly, but's in a cacoon (?) at present. :-)

A closer look...

Its new home...

Well I decided it could use some 'furniture' for housewarming. :-)

The plants are impatiens for color, and a pink pentas that Tersa cat. loves so much. :-)

This message was edited Oct 6, 2007 1:01 PM

Great news Lily!!! Sucess, now the wait begins.