How long from chrysalid to eclosure??

Hey guys. My GF cats are doing great. I have had 5 chrysalids, one eclosure, and the rest still eating and pooping. My question is since two of mine made the chrysalid within a day of each other and one has eclosed and the other not, is there a routine time frame here? I read somewhere that the GF's eclose within 5 to 10 days of chrysalid. Okay my first eclosed at 12 days. Not bad. But I have one that I have had a little trouble with. First the chrysalid fell off the stick he was on. I tied him back on as carefully as possible. But while all of my other chrysalids move back and forth sometimes (which I said previously really freaks me out) this one has not really done any movement at all. I am not going to discard the chrysalid, please don't think that. I know I will at least keep it until ALL others have eclosed and gone on their way. Just wondering how long should I wait after the rest are gone to give up on the little guy? Are there signs other than not moving that I can look for to see if he is okay? It will probably be at least three maybe four more weeks before the rest are all finished and free. Any help would really be appreciated as always.

Have a great day.

Leslie

I must have asked a really stupid question here. I am sorry for that. I know these have been answered a million times. Right now I am just letting them do their thing and when they come out, they come out. Still not having luck with #2. I don't think he is going to come out but again will keep him in there until all others are gone. I have #3 getting really ready to come out now I think. He is the little guy that has been so active in his chrysalid the whole time. Cannot wait to see this guy. He is probably going to be a male and the ladies will love him. We named him Mr. Hype for hyper as that is what he has been the whole time I have had him.

Leslie

Hi Leslie, I don't know, I'm still waiting for some action on my Passies, it's their first year :(

I found this cool video:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BqQZjBnVx_s

I'm sure someone will help out here.

the video was great - thanks
its my first time, with monarchs - they're easier?
I'm hoping all is okay - so I keep reading all I can find....

That video was awesome flygirl. I really want to sincerely say thank you flygirl. I have noticed on this forum that you are always so willing to help everyone out. If no one replies to someone's question you at least let us know you are trying. If someone posts a pic you are always the first one there to give them a thumb's up and let them know someone is noticing their posts. I just think that is a sweet thing to do and I know everyone really appreciates your interest and letting them know what they are putting out there for everyone is appreciated.

So if you read this I have another question, which probably was my first question to begin with. If no one answers I will make it a separate post. The question is how long from eclosure until the BF is ready to be released? My first one was in the cage about two hours before I let him go and he seemed to be having some trouble outside flying. I set him on a Lantana plant and he was happy there, spreading his wings and whatnot but I am not sure he was ready to go. So how do I know when they are ready for the big wide open world? I do not want to release them too soon. Are there any signs to look for that will tell me they are ready? Any help always appreciated.

Thanks again for the cool video. Since I won't see that happen myself (I have tried) at least now I know what it looks like.

Leslie

Leslie, my GF eclosed after about 10 days. As long as the other chrysalis looks ok I would just leave it for a while. Even if you don't see it move, does it point in different directions throughout the day or from day to day? As for how long to wait to release them, most people here have said the bf will start walking and flying around, generally acting like it wants to move about. I think it's better to leave them in there too long than not long enough. I've heard they can go the first day or so with no nectar and be fine. If you worry about that, you can always throw a bloom in there for him. When mine eclosed it was about noon (called Mom during lunch break to check) and we didn't release him until about 5:30pm when I got home. Just make sure its wings are fully extended and ready to go.

Thanks mellie. Great info. I will not do anything with the one I am worried about but no he does not move side to side. The others do, like crazy. But he does not. He was #2. #3 is about to come out I think. His chrysalid has become a very dark reddish brown color. Of course I was thinking he would come out all day and didn't and now it is night so if he does he will have to stay in for the night. But it sounds like that is okay. So I will agree with you, I am sure it is best to leave them in for too long than too short a time. If I get worried I just put a bloom of some kind in there, Lantana or something? That should be easy enough. I just read somewhere that a Monarch I think eclosed and flew off in 10 minutes time. There is no way #1 could have done that. So I will be patient and leave them as long as they need. Thanks so much for that info. I feel much better now about leaving them in there.

Oh and you are right on about the chrysalid to eclosure. I have read it can be anywhere from 5 to 10 days. #1 was 12 days. #3 is coming up on 10 days I think so that is about spot on. Does not seem like a very long time, does it, for all they do in there?

Leslie

Aw shucks Leslie, that was sweet, thanks! I know what it's like being a newbie and I had some great people here that helped me along. There were times when I was panicking over this or that. One time I ran out of milkweed and I had a gazillion cats and begged for someone to send me some milkweed. I couldn't find any for sale, it was October I think. Paige (Konkreteblond) was so kind, she sent me a big bunch and I was able to feed them all to pupate. It was a miracle! I kept it in plastic baggies in the fridge and it kept for a couple weeks.

I agree with Mellie, it's better to keep them too long than not long enough. They need to be strong and ready to face the world, so I wait until they fly around in the pavilion. That's how I know they are ready. Some are ready in an hour, others the next day. Also, if it's raining I'll wait until it stops or wait until the next day.
Here's a crazy thing I do, when school is in, I won't release around 2:30-4 because I don't want them to be hit by a big ole schoolbus....silly, I know.

Oh, that school bus thing is great! Isn't it hilarious the things we do for these guys? I also agree with the the weather advice. Definitely wouldn't want to let them go in one of our infamous afternoon thunderstorms. I think that's where I read it was okay to keep them awhile. Someone was saying if the weather is bad you could hold them until the next day. GF are so picky when they eclose. I tried to tempt mine with blanket flower (which they all seem to love) but it was a no go. Then I tried plumbago, which every bf in the neighborhood loves. That wouldn't do either. Then, I tried porterweed and you should've seen how excited he got! Weird thing is, I never see the GFs on my porterweed in the yard. Maybe because the zebra longwings are always on it, LOL! Lantana would be a good choice; I don't know any butterfly that doesn't love lantana.

I've always heard it takes a couple of hours for them to pump all the fluid into their wings to fully harden them. I know Mom had fun watching him just flap his wings - I had to explain what he was doing. When we let him go he flew straight up into the oak tree and settled in. It was evening and a little overcast so I think he wanted to be in a safe place before it got dark. As you release more of them I'm sure you'll get the hang of understanding when they start moving around like normal butterflies and are ready to go!

Melanie

I only speak the truth Flygirl. Great story about Konkreteblond. Very nice.

Well I admit I let the first one go way too early. I don't think anything bad happened as I checked on him throughout the night and he was still there on the Lantana and in the morning he was gone. I pray nothing happened to him. He was my first after all. So basically I can leave him in the cage almost a day. I had thought about the rainstorm thing last week when the first one should have eclosed. I was concerned about having to wait until after the storm to let him go. But he waited for me and did not come out until the storm had way passed. Everything was already dried up again. But I now know I let him out too soon and that was my mistake and it will not happen again.

Thanks for all of the information girls, I feel much better about it now. And I am looking forward to setting them all free. Love the schoolbus thing too. My family is so worried I am going to cry every time I have to let one go because I get so attached to things. I know I won't cry about that, will be very happy. Now losing one will be a different story. I can only hope that the little beasts stay in my yard for awhile so it at least looks like BF's are enjoying my yard. LOL.

Leslie

Update. Day 13 for chrysalid Mr. Hype. He was so very active all through his chrysalid stage and then started turning red at his tail end so I thought he was for sure about to come out. Then he turned a dark red all over and has stayed that way for three days. I am sorry to keep bringing this up but I am a little worried about the guy. I know there is no real timeframe here but I did not notice #1 ever turning that dark color before eclosing. Is this something to worry about or normal or what? I don't want to lose this guy, he has been such a treat to watch through his stages and I really think he is going to be an awesome BF with an attitude if he ever comes out. Any help here? Thanks guys.

Leslie

Leslie~
Is there any movement at all when you touch it? 13 days is long for a frit. Mine have usually eclosed in about a week-8 days. I had one do exactly what you describe, and I don't think it's alive. So many predators that I haven't learned them all yet.
Don't lose heart Les, bc when we do learn what kills them, we are able to protect them better, and thus get more survivors in the future.

Check for movement...

Deb

Oh no Deb. I did not know that it was too long for a frit. I have not tried touching it. So it will move when I touch it if he is still okay? See the first one eclosed at 12 days so I was not thinking this one was too long. Does the dark color of the chrysalid sound like a bad thing? I thought he was just changing like the Monarchs do, to look more like the butterfly. This is very disappointing if he does not make it because he was such a tough little guy. But when I get home from work I will touch him and see what happens. If you can maybe let me know what to expect when I do touch him that might help. Thanks for your help and kind words. I really hope all is not lost with this one. And also 8 days is such a short time, I probably have two more that should be coming due if 8 days is normal so I will keep an eye on them. I know they are still moving because they are in a different position every time I go look at them.

Leslie

Well I touched the little guy and had no movement whatsoever. So this means he is probably dead, right? This really breaks my heart. He was just so vibrant. Okay so I touched one of the other three I have in chrysalids and he did not move either but he is pointing a different direction every time I go check on them. Should I worry about the rest of them? I have 5 or 6 more cats waiting to pupate. What are the chances any of them will survive? Would they all have the same problem you think? Of course again any help is appreciated so much. Thanks.

Leslie

The ones taught side to side are probably fine! That's the good news, even if they don't do anything when touched. If they were dead they'd be straight down and discolored for several days without eclosing. As you go, you will see what's what. Your real experience is better than any advice you will get.

Is it very dry there these days? When it gets dry here I mist the chrysalids every day or so. That seems to help a lot.

Deb

Thanks for that good news Deb. So when the are pointing in one direction or the other they should be okay. Of course that is what this one did until he started to discolor. But so far they look okay. Misting the chrysalids is a good idea. It has actually been pretty humid here but it may be pretty dry in the house. And so Deb it is normal if the chrysalid is not viable so to speak for it to turn that dark reddish brown color or any dark color? That would be a sign to look for in other ones that something is wrong? Is that right? I understand what you mean about experience being the best teacher and all but the experiences I have had so far stink.

I did go buy the last passion flower the garden store had (thank goodness they had that one) and it has lots of leaves on it. So I gave them their nightly meal and they seem very happy. Watch though now that I went and bought it they will all pupate in the next day or two and I won't need hardly any more leaves. Oh well, it was getting to be pretty dire straits until I bought that plant so its all good.

Leslie

What kind of Passionvine is it?

It just says purple passion vine. Pretty vague, huh? These places around here don't know the true name for anything I don't think. Why? Will it make a difference?

Leslie

Leslie, I guess I would need to see a bloom since it doesn't say which passiflora it is. Passiflora caerulea is one I know will withstand our winters, (very hardy). Even with the hard freezes we had last year it stayed green all winter like the parsley. It is commonly called "Blue Crown". The firts ate it to stems this year and there were about 2 dozen cats on it. I took the cats over to Sheila_FW's house bc she had plenty. My vine grew back very well in just a few weeks. Thanks to Sheila giving mine a rest.

I bought one a couple weeks ago that looks like Maypop, (P. incarnata). On the tag it said it was "Passiflora caerulea, Purple Passionflower". I don't know yet how it will take sub-freezing conditions, but I will know next year.

I was wondering which one you had so we might determine what you can expect, and how to keep it. :-S

Pic of Hardy Blue Crown>>

The one I bought Aug 14, The tag reads: "Passiflora caerulea, Purple Passionflower". It looks like Maypop, (incarnata). Not sure how hardy it is yet.

I have a p. caerulea that I bought from the USF botanical gardens and it looks like the first picture. Plus, I thought its common name was Blue Passion Flower. Just from the latin name one would guess that, cerulean being a shade of blue and all. I just got my incarnata today but no blooms on it (yet).

Melanie

Your photographs are gorgeous! I've learned so much from your posts and enjoyed your pics! Have you seen the thread on the DG discussion forum about a new passiflora forum that might be formed? If you're interested, check in over there. I have two of them now, and will enjoy learning more.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/751464/

Sorry if I sounded weird when you asked what kind. I have just heard things about red ones being toxic to the cats and I was afraid you were going to tell me that might be my problem with my cats. So I was concerned but it just said purple passion flower. I have not seen a bloom yet and probably won't since it will be used for eating. The first plant I had looks a little like your first picture, it did have a blue flowerthe two times I got to see it bloom before the cats took over. I will certainly try to let you know if this one blooms and what it looks like. Yours are beautiful by the way. The leaves are gorgeous. That is one thing I have noticed on the plants I have to go buy for the cats is that the leaves do not look good. My first plan the leaves were kind of thin and looked fairly good and the new leaves on it are very pretty. The second two I bought which are the same kind, the leaves are very thick and just are not pretty. Maybe once it has been in the ground awhile it will look different, I hope so. The cats don't seem to mind the thicker leaves though.

I was really hoping mine would winter okay. I think when I bought the first one I was just so excited about the nursery having one I did not even think to see if it was hardy here. I guess I will see come spring. We don't usually have very harsh winters here but last year it did freeze for quite a few days. We just never know around here whether we will have a bad winter or just a very long fall. The one you bought on August 14 is an awesome plant. It looks like it has been growing for years. Also could you tell me the difference between the passion flower and a maypop? I read another thread about showing off your passion vines or maypops and I had never heard of that. What is the difference, if any?

Thanks again Deb.

Leslie

Your very welcome Leslie,
It's just that I am used to hearing "Maypop" in reference to the P. incarnata. It is the common name for that particular PV.

:-D.

Okay thanks Deb. So basically the same flower.

Well good news. I had an eclosure today. She/he is a real beauty. I got up this morning and one of the chrysalids was dark so I just assumed I had another bad one. I was so disappointed. But when I got home from work that BF had come out of that chrysalid so I was double ecstatic. So maybe the rest of them will be okay. I have two pupating tonight and three more that need to so wish me luck. I am very, very excited.

Leslie

That's wonderful Leslie!
I'm so relieved...Wishin' ya luck for the others!

:-D

Thanks Deb. Have three more starting to pupate as we speak. I let the beauty free this morning. I tell you he was ready to go. I went out and tried to put him on some Lantana blooms and the guy just flew off, I mean flew off. I said "well your welcome very much." I am sure he did not mean to appear ungrateful, he was just ready to boogie. And good for him, I hope he/she is happy but stay away from my passion vine, at least this year.

Leslie

Hmmm, he could have at least said "good bye!" :)
Congrats on your success! You must be thrilled. :)

I am thrilled I must say. And I thought he should have said goodbye too. I did not even have a chance to make a wish. LOL.

Leslie

Leslie and all~
I forgot to add my 2cents regarding the different passifloras. Some are certainly not host plants, and were possibly cultivated to be... (close your eyes bfly lovers, ~I;ll whisper~) "pest resistant". Why else would frits lay eggs on them? (What were they thinking!!) These are often found at chain garden stores where if you ask about larval hosts they say "what?". Many of the red ones are not safe as a rule. I have heard that only red "Lady Margaret" is ok, and none of the other red ones. I do trust the blue and purple more for my area.

Some are green or white, and a little less showy and those are usually alright, and often best for ZLW. Always be sure of the latin name and check for documentation of successful cat raising. The cats have been known to go ahead and eat the leaves they hatch on and go to 3-5 instars and then die if it's not a good larval host.

:-deb

Thanks for that info Deb. That is the stuff I had heard of and was worried about the ones i bought simply labeled purple passion flower. But so far the cats seem okay. Will have to wait and see. I don't know why momma would lay her eggs on these plants either. Bless her heart I think she is just trying to get rid of them and would not care where they went. I know when I got the last batch of cats I actually saw two eggs she had laid on the chain link fence. It was close to the plant but I mean really. LOL.

Leslie

Some of the bfs will lay their eggs on the fence as long as the vine is nearby. I guess they want their children to work for their food! I get some on the wooden fence but it's always close enough for them to reach the vine. I remember reading too about one kind of bf that lays at the base of the plant and then the cats have to crawl up to the leaves.

Moms are mean sometimes. Making those little tiny things crawl all that way. Oh well. Pretty crazy really. Glad my GF momma is not the only one.

Leslie

The life of a butterfly looks so easy when they are gliding on the wind... But in fact they are one creature that requires a lot of struggle to survive. So what looks mean to us is actually love in the first degree. Also, the eggs inside of her are not fertilized until she is just about to oviposit. The sperm is stored in an sac on her abdomen. The sac is called Spermathecae. When the female butterfly is formed in the chrysalis all her eggs are inside of her. Similar to human females which have all their eggs when formed in the womb of their mother, at about 20 weeks in utero. Pretty cool!

:-D
Yesterday the tiniest Gulf Fritillary eclosed. When all her friends kept eating, she decided to morph. She was only in her 3rd instar> One wing side view, almost an inch.>

How darling is that Deb. She was ready to get into the world.

Interesting facts about how the BF's fertilize. I would have never known that and will certainly look at little mommy in a different light now. Thanks for that great information. And what a beautiful baby. I have noticed some of my chrysalids are a lot smaller than others, is that just a when they decide to morph thing or are the males bigger than the females? What is the reasoning behind that, if any?

Leslie

Thx Leslie,
I'm not sure if the distinction of morphing sooner, or size have to do with the gender.


Here she is just moments later already coupling. See how he dwarfs her?

Wow he does dwarf her. Bless her heart. I cannot believe she is already mating so soon after eclosure. Is that normal? So I can believe that my baby I let go three days ago has already mated? My, my, they do not waste any time do they? LOL. Now will she be alright being so much smaller? I assume she is not having any trouble in this picture, LOL. But as a rule she shouldn't have any problems, should she?

Leslie

She will be fine! That is the first thing on their mind, not nectar. Often times the female has barely eclosed and hanging to dry before a male makes her. This is a good thing. I was glad to see her found within just a minute or 2!

Them there males have a keen sense of finding a female don't they? ha. Pretty funny, that is the first thing on their mind, not nectar. Hilarious.

Leslie

Yep Leslie, If they don't mate they will not survive. Some moths do not even have a mouth or probascus bc that's all they live to do. They live for a week or less. I know of Luna Moth for one.... no mouth. The cat stage is the longest for many butterflies, and the stage that is least appreciated by the public at large.

:-D