New Leaves "Cupping" on Hibiscus and ONE (of 6) Datura???

I will post several pictures below. I have NEVER seen this before!

These are all in a long bed--the full width of my house wall-facing South/West. It gets really good light until late evening, when the house next door shades it a bit. I have grown this Hibiscus in the same spot for at least 5 years and have also grown Daturas there for about the same length of time.

The Hibiscus in question are two different, perennial ones. The greener one is a tall, older variety of a red one and a white/pinkish one all growing in the same clump.

The darker-leafed one is a Kopper King Hibiscus I planted 3 years ago. There was no problem last year. Also, I have a KK Hib. on the other side of the house that has totally blown me away by growing 5 feet tall. Both Hibiscus are in bud at this time. Neither has bloomed yet.

I am NOT a novice gardener and "know" what I am doing. This cupping up of the leaves has me baffled though. It is NOT Thrips, as far as I can tell (as I anticipate some of you suggesting). The leaves are NOT dying off--they are just curling up/cupping and on the Datura, it seems almost like they are "mummifying"--very hard, thick, distorted and leathery to the touch. I sprayed once with a garden insecticide, but nothing changed.
The buds are continuing to look OK. I can't yet tell if they will also be dwarfed.

I hope I have given you good enough descriptions of this problem to help me out.

Thanks for any help you can offer. Please ask any questions if something is not clear. I can also post pictures of both Hibiscus from previous years- if needed.

Gita

This first picture is of the older, perennial Hibiscus (the red and white ones mixed). These are about 5' tall.
I hope you can see that only the newer leaves are curling up, not the ones below.

Here's another picture of the same Hibiscus.

Now--Here is the thwarted, distorted leaves of my Kopper King Hibiscus. The reddish color is normal on this plant.

This picture is of the Datura that seems to be having a similar problem, except the leaves are like "shrunk" and hard to the touch/leathery. Really weird!

I have 6 Datura plants in this same bed. I grew them all from seed.
This particular one (the sicky one) first got my attention by having yellow mottling on all the leaves as it was growing. Hmmmm.....

PS. My foot is perfectly OK!

Then, as it now has grown to almost 21/2 feet tall, all this weird stuff started happening to its top growth. ONLY this one Datura!!!! The others are OK.

Here's a picture of the curled/distorted/SHRUNKEN top leaves on this Datura.

Here's a close-up of one of these "mummified" leaves. They are almost hard to the touch. Weird--as if the normal leaf was zapped by something to shrink it down to 1/4 it's size.

Might it be a virus of some kind??????

Here is the healthy/normal top growth of a Datura right, smack next to it.
Nothing wrong with this one!

OK! I am out of pictures. I will double-post this in the Hibiscus and Datura forum also. I really want some answers.....

Thanks to all for whatever suggestions you might have for me.

Gita

The Datura in the last couple pictures look like it has some sort of mosaic virus. Since Datura is in Solanaceae it'll be susceptible to tobacco mosaic virus, maybe others as well but that's the one I know of.

I think the hibiscus may have a different problem, I looked them up in my pests of trees & shrubs book and the only virus that is mentioned for them is Hibiscus chlorotic ringspot virus, but the symptoms are blotches/rings/spots on the leaves, doesn't say anything about the leaves curling like that. They don't list anything specific for Hibiscus that matches your picture, but when I look up the general symptom of curling leaves regardless of the specific plant, the things they mention as possibilities are anthracnose, cultural issues like too much/little water, wind/heat damage, root rots, thrips, psyllids, aphids, herbicide phytotoxicity, and nutrient deficiency, hopefully one of those could lead you on the right track. My initial gut feeling on the green-leaved hibiscus was some sort of nutrient deficiency, but the Kopper King looks like something's been chewing on it too so either it has a different problem too or it's more than just a nutrient deficiency.

This message was edited Jul 8, 2007 12:00 PM

Looks very much like herbicide damage. Probably air borne. What have you been spraying? And if not you, what has the neighbor been spraying? Have you used something to control weeds? I would doubt virus because it is damaging several different species of plants. The distorted new growth is so typical of herbicide damage.

CJ--

The only thing I have sprayed all my plants with is Messenger. I DID mean to read the back of those little packets to see if Hibiscus was a no-no. I don't think messenger would have affected my Hibs. this way, though.

No one lives next door to me on this side of the house. The house has been empty for over a year.
I used granular fertilizer/weed control on my lawn myself and I was VERY careful near the beds. Besides, the green, perennial Hibiscus sits back in the bed and has big Junipers near it. The edge of the bed has pretty big RR ties all around it. The KK Hibs. show an all different damage from the green one. I think it may be a virus also, just don't know where it came from.

Still a mystery to me! Gita

I think it looks like broad mites. or maybe a calcium deficiency. probably broadmites. I would treat with neem oil about every 3 days being careful not to spray in the heat of the day.I prefer to spray at late evening. also check the ph if it is too acid the calcium locks up in the soil it looks very similar to broadmite damage.

I've sprayed Messenger on my hibiscus many times and nothing at all bad has happened to any of them, I'm sure it's not that.

I have a hibiscus like this that has given me trouble since I got it. It must be weak or something. I have just cut it down VERY far in hope it will regrow stronger.
It is the aphids that do it. I have cupping on some of mine from aphids but this ONE plant gets the wrinkled cup like yours has. It's a bad case of aphids. soap spray made with garlic water is what my Master (Daddy) Gardener said to do. He said boil some water pour it over 1/4 to 1/2 cup minced garlic let it sit all night. Put it in your garden sprayer WITH OUT the garlic. Strain the water into your garden sprayer. Add water if you need to to make it 1 gallon and 2 tablelspoons of dish soap.

Good luck.

Thought I would show you my cupping hibiscus. It's not quite as bad as the one I cut done real well but you can see the similarities

Dangitgirl,

I never had aphids nor any other visible bugs on the leaves--not even when I used a magnifying lass to check.

It DID affect the blooming to some extent. The blooms just were not as big as in years before. That's why I was asking about the seeds.

My Hibiscus is about 5-6' tall and very multi-stemmed.

I guess if it happens again next year, I will have to decide what to do.

Gita.