imidacloprid and bees

I have been a big proponent of imidacloprid, and now I wish I could just take it all back. Maybe it isn't the culprit in the disappearance of bees, but I will not use it again until that is proven. I posted this to a forum I frequent, and it was suggested I post it here. I hope it isn't too "political", because this really does need to be known. I am not going to argue about it, or defend it, or anything. Just take it for what it's worth and make your own judgement after you do your own research.

Did you all read about the bees? Scientists from Penn State University and the U.S. Department of Agriculture are leading the research into a disease which has killed tens of thousands of bee colonies in at least 35 states. They are focusing on an ingredient in many of our newer pesticides called neonicotinoids. And it is one of the ingredients in imidacloprid, which I have been touting as a "safe" pesticide because it was systemic and didn't need to be sprayed (can be watered in) which would kill beneficials too, low mammalian toxicity, and didn't cross into the flowers - therefore not dangerous to hummingbirds and butterflies. Well, apparently it is in the pollen. What I don't know if that is when the plant has been sprayed, or if it is taken there when the pesticide is watered in too. I will have a BIG talk with our agent Monday, since he's the one that told me it was safe for butterflies, and used at Cockerell Butterfly Center. In the meantime, until I know more from creditable sources (which do not include Bayer, who says it is perfectly safe) I am no longer using it nor recommending it. I wish I could make a big announcement somewhere on DG about this....
From this site: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/PI117
"Of the neonicotinoids, imidacloprid is the most toxic to birds and fish. Both imidacloprid and thiamethoxam are highly toxic to honeybees. "
Dadgum it!!

Ceejay, it happens. Don't beat yourself up. Would you please go post this over in the Gardening For Wildlife Forum?

I looked up some of the products that contain Imidachloprid: Advantage, Admire, Bayer Rose and Flower Insecticide, Condifor, Gaucho, Marathon, Merit, Premier, Premise, and Provado.

I didn't look up all the neonicotinoids, I suppose there are many.

It's good to know what we are up against and can select a safer insecticide, if there is such a thing.

Thanks for the info!

Thanks for looking all that up, fly. I'm sure that will mean much more to everyone.

I recently found out spinosad is toxic to bees .So I know how you feel last year we had thousands if not millions of bees. This year only a few. Spinosad is an organic approved (omri) pesticide so I had used it liberally .

I canceled the lawn service we had here about three years ago and we have fireflies again.

Spinosad, eh? And the list just keeps growing... Another recommendation made - organic after all. Thanks much, Ted.

I googled Spinosad after reading it was organic. First off, all organics are not safe and just as synthetic insecticides are to be used sparingly and for their intended purpose so are organic insecticides. This link describes Spinosad as a non-synthetic(interesting terminology) and it detriment to beneficial insects is understood.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/NOP/NationalList/TAPReviews/Spinosad.pdf

Thanks for mentioning Spinosad, it will be on my list of things not to use. In fact I will be searching for organic farmers who use it and cross them off my list for purchase of their food.

this is slightly off topic but as cute and beneficial as the honey bee is is it not an introduced species? I have wondered many times if the introduction of the bee itself has had detrimental effects on the native bee population. bumblebees etc etc etc. Would we have ever needed the honeybee in the united states in the first place? The honey is nice though.

Generally the bees we talk about are European. I think those are the ones being decimated.

No, it's my understanding it's all bees. Native bees are being wiped out including but not limited to the 200 or so bees lumped into the category of Mason bees.

http://www.knoxcellars.com/

Good info Equilibrium, but look at this article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeybee

I am aware of this. My comment was in reference to this, "Generally the bees we talk about are European. I think those are the ones being decimated."

We're losing pollinators at an unprecedented rate and this is cause for mounting concern. Collateral pesticide damage has long taken a toll on the environment. There's a great book out there titled, "The Forgotten Pollinators". Two more I'd recommend would be "Evolutionary Ecology of Plant Reproductive Strategies" and "Pollinator Conservation Handbook: A Guide to Understanding, Protecting, and Providing Habitat for Native Pollinator Insects".

I provide habitat to Mason bees and Bumblebees. I ordered my Mason bees from Knox Cellars but there are other sources.

Neat nest box that will accommodate a few native species of bumbles-
http://tomclothier.hort.net/page38.html

Equilibrium... I have Mason bees too. Iknwo w e ha d such crzy weather here and two hailstorms and tonadoe winds destroyed alot of the insect and beneficial population, but I wondere d have you noticed yorupopulation down any this year?

usually out whiel I am tryign to pollinate I have to fight 7 or 8 in the same bloomand this year I seem to have the pollen mor e or les s ot myself? The Mason bees are great little pollinators and have been pollinatign with them for 5 years now hand to wing and they don't bothe r ya at all nor have i eve r had any problem with being stung by them. I am highly allergic to bee stings and have no fear or panic from these little guys.

Get a bee sting kit. Your doctor can prescribe one for you.

I've noticed no shortage of Italian honeybees around here but there has been a marked decline in my bumbles and masons.

Neat link-
http://www.organicconsumers.org/bees.cfm

I understand what you are saying Equilibrium...so clear now! Thanks for the additional links. The LA Times article brings the research up to date.

Direct link to the LA Times article mentioned by wldrnss that was buried at the other link-
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-bees10jun10,0,4460235.story?coll=la-home-center

Say wldrnss, how long until you place an order for bees for yourself ;)

I have been giving it some thought! I just have a little suburban lot but it may be a good idea. I have just seen one honey bee in my clover this year.

You know something wldrnss, you might be right to give it some thought if you are in a suburban area because most people in residential areas either use chemicals they buy off the shelves or have lawn services. Out here the big companies are Barefoot Lawns, ChemLawn, and Scott's. When others treat their lawns, yours would be treated because of drift. About all I use on my lawn is corn glutten meal but I do spot treat quack grasses with Poast or similar and I will spot treat other noxious weeds with Rodeo or AquaMaster. Rodeo and AquaMaster use the same active ingredient as RoundUp BUT they are formulated with a very different surfactant that does not build up in the fatty tissues of the very critters I garden for.

This explains it a little better-
http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=2942746

Here's another book you might be interested in and you can probably pick up used copies on line by following DG's link to Amazon-
http://davesgarden.com/gbw/c/1455/