Hi. I'm relatively new to this gardening thing, and have some basic questions. This year I bought plants at a nursery to fill my containers, but wow, was it ever expensive! Next year I'd like to try to grow my own plants from seed to try to save some money. I live in a pretty cold climate (6b), and wanted some advice. Is it best to plant the seeds in separate little plastic containers, see what grows and then transfer the plants to my containers, or do I sow them directly in the planters? Do you assume that each individual seed will give you a plant, or do you plant extra seeds assuming that some won't make it (if so, what ratio?). When do you start planting the seeds? I saw that there are lots of seeds on sale right now online. If I buy seeds now, how long can I wait until I plant them, ie - when do seeds expire? Thanks in advance.
some basic questions
I would like the answers to the same questions. Any of you GREAT and I do mean Great gardeners out there willing to give us beginners a hand.
I can start you off, but I hope others will chime in.
First off, no, never sow seeds directly in the conainer -- they will drown. Yes, there are exceptions, but I still think it's a bad idea.
Decide what you want and try to see if seeds are available. I bet that some of the plants you will want are only cutting-grown and no seeds are available...things like cut leaf scented or old fashioned Martha Washington geraniums, callibrochoa, bacopa are either very limited in seeds or just not available. Not sure about Sweet potato Vines, but there is a whole thread onthem and the tubers are not easy to store over winter if the posts in that thread are anything to go by.
Once you have some selections made, see if anybody will trade with you for the seed. Things like Wave Petunias, some vertical grasses, and Bidens, among many, many others, would likely be available.
The problem with starting containers from seed is that it gets expensive fast and it's a lot slower than just buying the plants. A LOT slower. You might get a package of seed, but only want one plant out of the deal. If you have 5 containers, you still want a variety of plants, and it's one pack of seed for each varitiy of plant you want. Last year I paid $4.95 for 10 Dichondra 'Silver Falls' seeds. I started them in February and had 5 reach planting out stage. I only needed 4, and could have bought them for $2.95 each. On the oher hand, I also started 10 Angel Wings begonias and got all 10 to blooming size plants. I have a container worth about $100.00 sitting on my patio looking really sharp!
You could also see if you could get somebody from Texas or Florida to overwinter the plants you are currenty growing and send rooted cuttings back to you in spring. There are a lot of excellent gardeners here on Dave's and this is not beyond the realm of possibility.
I'm preobably forgetting some things, but those are my thoughts,
Suzy
First, check out www.wintersown.org. Trudi's method is about the only way I ever got seeds to grow.
Actually, I need to correct that. pgt, Welcome to davesgarden! We're nice people.
Now back to the seeds. What plants did you buy this year, that you liked? Nasturtium, sweet peas, impatiens, and some others are notoriously easy to grow. Seeds expire at different rates. Probably anything you buy now will be fine to sow this winter or next spring. I had pretty good results with a device made by Parks, which is not a great company for live plants but which makes OK equipment. I bought it at Home Depot. [I picked it over Burpee's version because it was a few bucks cheaper and because I don't like Burpee either.] Anyway, this thing has 72 (?) cells in it and a clear plastic top and drainage holes in the bottom. Were I in your position, I'd pick myself up a few of those. Of course, you'll probably have to wait until next winter to find them for sale.
pgt,
now that's a whole lot of difficult questions to answer. First things first. You are way up north, where snow is part of your culture, and I'm way down south where we sweat a lot. But I'll try to take a stab at 1 or 2 of your questions.
Obviously, you can save some bucks by growing your plants from seeds. what seed do you want to start? You didn't say. Flowers? Veggies?
Here's a question I might be able to help with. I would not assume that each individual seed you plant will germinate. Even the best vendors of really good seed, will not claim 100% germination rate. Plant 2 or even 3 seeds in each little plastic container. If more than one emerges, the hard part is pinching off the runt of the litter. I really don't like to have to do that, but ya gotta be realistic.
When do you plant the seeds? -- Another tough question, better answered by folks in your neck of the woods. Very generally speaking, if you plant seeds 8-10 weeks prior to your last average "last frost date", you will have seedlings 2-4" tall and ready to transplant into larger containers, or in the garden by the time the weather is moderate. Beyond that very general guideline, it is impossible to be specific.
However, on the question of how long seeds will last, the same answer applies up north as well as down south. It all depends upon how you store the seeds. if you store unused seeds in a lo humidity environment, and at cool temps, most will remain viable for several years. They all vary in longevity, but for instance, a bell pepper seed might be viable for 3-4 years.
The best way to store unused seeds is to place them in an airtight jar, with a couple of spoons of dry uncooked rice in the container. Keep them in the fridge, NOT the freezer. A seed with too much moisture in it will not only freeze, but the internal moisture may crystalize and kill the internal guts of the seed. If you save your seed in a container with a bit of dry rice in it, the rice will absorb any excess moisture.
Beyond that, I can't help ya. Udder folks probably can.
Then, next spring, plant the seeds you've chosen in this er doohickey. Big seeds you'll plant one to a cell. Little seeds may be 2 or 3 or 20 to a cell. (Very tiny seeds are hard to work with!) Mine looks just like that today, June 15. My problem is that I didn't identify them well enough. I'm not sure what I have!
If you have space in front of a sunny window you can start them inside. If you choose the indoor method, your plants will be old enough to bloom sooner, but they'll be more fragile and delicate.
I hope this helps. If you explore this site, check out the seed-trading forum (a wonderful way to get fresh seeds!) and the wintersowing forum, look up anything you don't understand in the Glossary, look up everything you hear about in Plantfiles, read old threads that interest you, you'll start to have ideas, more specific questions, etc.
xxx, Carrie
ok here's an even MORE basic question!
how far down do you plant the seeds?
or does it depend on what you're planting?
let's say i'm planting in that there "doohickey" above (hehe)...would i put the seed about half way down? or a quarter ways down?
It usually says on the seed envelope. Some seeds need light to germinate, others need darkness. Where there were no instructions, I planted one on top and one lightly covered by dirt. You know how with bulbs, you plant them 2 bulb widths down (or something, don't quote me!)? With seeds, you plant them deeper if they're huger. Think of a coconut, the seed, if you will, of a coconut palm. Or a sesame or poppy seed roll, the seeds on there are the same size as poppy seeds you would plant in your garden. Poppy seeds are teensy tiny and thus hard to plant singly; those I think you scatter on the surface of where you want them to grow. Or, if using a doohickey, the tiniest pinch you can manage on one cell. I don't advise planting coconuts in this device, nor would I recommend it for avocados.
xxx, Carrie
Thanks for all of the info. Great help!
Some answers to your questions . . .
- I'm growing flowers in my containers, not veggies.
- Some of the plants:
Fushia
Verbena
Calibrachoa
'wishbone flower' (torenia hybrid/summer wae/large violet)
Marguerite Sweet potato vine
Licorice plant
a variety of coleus
angelonia
bacopa
impatiens
If I buy a few of those Burpee/Home Depot Doohickeys, how many hours of window sunlight do the plants need to get in order to grow? Is there any way to store my containers that I have planted this year inside during the winter? Or will all the plants just die? Can I just store their roots somewhere inside until the spring? Or would they die or rot? You guys are so great. Thanks for taking the time to answer all of the questions of a novice like me.
pgt, the plants you want to grow are annuals, meaning they won't survive a winter unless you have a sunroom where you can keep them growing through the winter. Some of the seeds you want to grow are pretty easy like coleus. Get on the coleus forum to find out how to do that. You can take cuttings and overwinter them inside like a house plant, but they do have growing requirements. Impatiens are also pretty easy to grow. Fuschia aren't so easy, and I'd buy plants.
I'd start seeds earlier than 8-10 weeks. You'd have to have room and enough windowsills or a light setup, but you can grow blooming size plants if you start them in December or January. You can also go the wintersown route as suggested above.
I grew seeds for all my plants for many years, but I had a basement with a large, heated planterbox and lights rigged up that I could lower to start the seeds and raise as the plants grew. Now I just have one 48" plant light and this year all I grew from seed were nicotiana and morning glories.
Perennials can be grown from seed too, but they take about three years to reach a decent size for your containers.
If you go to Gardeners Supply.com you can find all kinds of indoor growing stuff. I recommend it. And if you want to do winter sowing, start collecting containers now. It can get to be an addiction!
I use small containers and plant them on a table in the basement over which I have placed grow lights. In the spring, when they reach the appropriate size, I transplant them outside. Usually this is the week after Derby Day (the first Saturday in May). However, this spring the weather fooled us here in Kentucky. I had to replant. Fortunately I had enough seedlings.
Pgt -- Looks like I won my bet -- almost all of the plants you listed were cutting grown. Let me list them back to you with some comments, but keep in mind the reason you love these is because they are unusual & they bloom all summer. They bloom all summer because they are sterile, ergo, they have no seeds, therefore you can't start the same exact kinds by seed.
Fuchsia - these are so easy by cutting and I've never seen seed on them or for sale until very recently. To get cuttings, you have to buy or find a mother plant or keep yours alive all winter. Most Fuchsias are perennial to zone 8 or 9? Here is one they are calling half hardy annual from seed -- it's a bit different from the fuchsia I've seen for sale. http://seeds.thompson-morgan.com/us/en/product/2484/1
Verbena - same as above on the cuttings. Most of the seed is hybrid seed, so you can buy it, but if you try to save it from year to year, who knows what you'll get? I did Verbena from seed one year and it's slow, but easy. About 10-12 weeks. The dark purple Homestead doesn't come true from seed.
http://seeds.thompson-morgan.com/us/en/product/3365/1
Calibrachoa - As far as I know, this is cuttings only (same as above). MIne have never had any seed, and I've never seen it for sale.
'wishbone flower' (torenia hybrid/summer wae/large violet) - I got some seed froma swap, but it was either very slow (too slow and I gaveup) or nothing came up. I don't remember. Not sure about cuttings
Marguerite Sweet potato vine - *if* you can find a potato in the pot at the end of the year when you clean out your containers, store in the basement or root cellar in a brown paper bag. When you try to get it to sprout, it might rot. There is a long thread in the propagation forum about different people's SPVs rotting. My new idea, untested, is to cut the tuber into quarters. I think it needs to be stressed/opened up to make it think there is an emergency and it had better sprout. Or maybe it needs light with no water. I'm not sure if you could just grow this inside over winter or not.
Licorice plant - I don't know a thing about this one.
a variety of coleus - cuttings as above, houseplant if you can keep it watered and lighter, seed is easy, but slow.
angelonia - this is the one I have the most experience with. I grew it last year and loved it, so I took cuttings which did not root. When frost came, I brought it inside. One plant died from freezing. The other two plants were planted and kept in a window. I watered them, but just to keep them alive, not to keep them green or blooming or anything. They sprouted these sort of clumps of leaves, but there was nothing really to take off and root that I could see, so I waited for them to get bigger and they never did. I think I was supposed to take cuttings where I took a bit of stem with the little clumps of leaves and root them, but I had no idea how to do it and forgot to take a pic so I could get advice here. They lived about 2 weeks, each plant had about 5 or 6, and then both the whole plants died.
bacopa - I have only seen seed for white, but I imagine more colors are on their way. I assume cuttings same as above. There isn't much info about these and I suspect they could be perennials (Zone 9 or 10) if you can keep them going.
impatiens - I have the next most experience with these, but it is more successful experience. LOL! There are four kinds -- one is the regular impatiens you buy by the cheap flat -- these are easy, and 8 weeks will give you about the same size as what the garden centers have in spring. They will reseed in the garden if you don't mulch. You can also easily wintersow them (but reseeding is a lot easier, and if you collect the seed the fall before, you'll have plenty! The seed is not cheap, but you can collect it from your plants or those in public planting starting in Aug is a good time. If you collect seed from all purple plants, you will get a mixed collection of colors -- al in the purple family (no salmons for example) but they will not be purple like what you collected from.
The second is the New Guineas Impatiens...these are mostly cutting grown, and you can overwinter them because they are perennial (they just look so shabby by the next spring) They root very, very easily. You can root plants right now from what you have in your garden right now and they will bloom and root in like 2 weeks. Yes, you can buy seed, but the seed percentage of germination was very poor for me. As far as I know, the seed grown varieties do not have the 3 colors in the foliage. These don't set seed to my knowledge. but I was told that a lot of sterile hybrids -- and this is of flowers in general, not Impatiens -- WILL set seed if you have non-hybrid varieties of the same plant growing nearby. I'm trying that this year,,, but as yet I don't have anything.
The third kind is the doubles -- these also have fairly poor germination and slow growth. They are just a little bit harder to do. The seed selection is poor -- no a lot of colors and it's expensive seed. I don't think they set seed, but I am not sure.
The 4th kind are the specialty ones -- Jungle kinds from South Africa. I have seed for these, but was too scared to try it :) I'm sure they are cutting grown when you seed them. Expensive and the seed is also expensive. I'm sure a lot of these do not set seed.
The 5th kind are the misc species...these are a lot of plant and a little bit of flower, but still they can be fun. Seed is set on species, so you can collect it.
I hope this helps you and you can build on it.
Dear all -- As I wrote the above, I would like to add some commentary on the sterile varieties grown from cuttings being offered in all the garden centers...Proven Winners is one company. I don't think the flowers have any nectar, and I don't think they have any seed. The birds, butterflies, bees and other wildlife depend on the seeds and nectar of flowers for their food. So, in addition to their loss of natural habitat, we are now pulling away ornamental plants from their food supply. With the proliferation of these mutant plants, and each year this gets worse and worse, I just wanted people to be alert to what I see as a problem. If you have a few containers and a larger home landscape, it's probably not a problem, but when I was at Home Depot this past weekend, nearly every single plant they sold was one of these sterile mutants -- and that is a problem. The HD was smack in the middle of a strip mall which was smackin the middle of what had been acres and acres and acres of woods and soybean farms. Now it is filled with homes on 1/4 & 1/2 acre lots, zero lot line homes and patio homes. People buy what is available for purchase, and suburbanites IMHO especially need to make some concessions and install plants which have food available year 'round to make up for the land that was stripped & taken from the wildlife.
Off soapbox :(
Suzy
I get the part about the wildlife not having seeds if plants are sterile, but I've never heard that the flowers don't have nectar, I really don't see why they wouldn't so I'm curious where you heard that? I have plenty of hybrid plants and the hummingbirds, butterflies, and bees seem to like them just fine. And a lot of hybrids do produce seed too, there are some that don't but many do, they just usually won't come true from seed so people generally don't collect them and try to grow them.
Suzy,
Thanks so much for your very informative reply. I had no idea these plants were sterile. I guess I'm not going to be growing them from seed. Oh well. I also worry about the environment. Luckily our property has dozens of flowering bushes and trees, and hundreds of perrenials, so hopefully the birds are okay. Is it really true that these sterile plants also don't produce nectar? I wonder whether that's contributing to the lack of bee problem that the US is having?
Now, if I take all of my containers down to my basement, and buy a bunch of special lights, can I keep them alive all winter to use again in the spring? Or do they only last a year even if they are in the South? Or, is the goal just to keep them marginally alive during the winter so I can propagate them through cuttings?
Thanks so much, you guys are amazing!
ecrane, I didn't mean to imply hybrids don't have nectar -- of course they do. I'm talking about those sterile mutant flowers usually sold at the garden center and Home Depot, especially annuals, that go for $4.95 each....things like Angelonia, Bacopa, Callibrocha, & maybe Verbena from Proven Winners. These have nothing of interest to bees, butterflies or birds as far as I can tell here. I'm sure there are a whole lot more, I just can't think of them, but they are almost always plants that bloom all summer and never need deadheading.
You want to know what else I noticed? I bought a number of annual poppy varieties (seed) this year and the bees are not interested in them at all. Not one little bit. I also sowed a few packs of collected poppies from swaps and trades. Things like "red mix poppies". The bees are all over those - 4 and 5 bees at a time on a single flower.
pgt, No I don't think that has anything to do with the bees...primarily because the bee problem is so widespread. You can go to areas of the country where they have never heard of Bacopa and they still have a problem.
I pretty much answered whether I think they will stay alive all winter, but as I said, the only one I have experience with is the Angelonia, and I feel certain I had to take cuttings of it for it to stay alive....I just didn't know how. I have seen impatiens in greenhouses over winter, so those wll stay alive. I think the answer is different on them all, but if it is perennial, then you can over winter them. Do you know how to get the bugs off them and also out of the pots before you bring them inside? (I don't)
Suzy
Some of your plants may not be sterile, just because something's a hybrid doesn't mean it's sterile. They're all reproduced by cuttings because if they do make seeds they won't be true to the parent, but many hybrids will still produce seeds. So I definitely wouldn't panic about what you're doing to your wildlife, sounds like you have plenty of plants if one or two happen to sterile I don't think your wildlife is going to starve to death due to lack of seeds.
As far as overwintering--at least Fuchsia, verbena, angelonia, and bacopa can be perennials in a warm enough climate, so you can probably save them. And the sweet potato vine you can sometimes dig up the tuber and save those over the winter. The others I've never grown and I'm not as familiar with so I'm not sure if they're true annuals or just annuals because of your climate.
I know how to get the bugs off. (I credit Mom with this.) Put a plastic bag tightly over the plant when its still warm but not overly hot outside. The bugs will try to escape and crawl out of the plant and onto the plastic. Once or twice a day take the bag off and knock all the bugs out and replace the bag tightly over the plant until you find no more bugs coming out of it.
Thank you guys for all your answers as well. I swear I learn something new here every time I log on. Oh and Illoquin I don't know if you got my Dmail but thanks for the info on the butterflies here in Indiana.
Chevy,
Thats good to know. I sometimes submerge them in a bucket of water. I thought that worked pretty well, but sometimes all the loose soil floats away from the plant and has to be replaced and not everything dies. Your method sounds more labor intensive, but cleaner and more reliable.
Suzy