We were discussing Gardenias here: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/722280/
I was thrilled to find a Chuck Hayes today!!! The Kleims Hardy is the only other hardy one (that I know of) that I don't have right now.
The following have been rec. to me since the Gardenias like the more acidic soil: Hollytone and Garden Sulfur...I've also been told Epsom salt is good for Gardenias. Are ALL of these to be used? If not which ones would be the best and in want quantities? I can't tell you how thrilled I'd be if I could get even ONE of the 5 varieties I've purchased to thrive for me. I've noticed yellowing leaves n some (still in their pots) - any thoughts as to what this is from and/or how to correct it? Thanks so much for any help you can provide.
Gardenia Help - Please!!!
I also know that the occasional cup of cold coffee is good for them, re: acidic soil. :)
Congrads!!! :)
-Joe
Thanks, Joe...LOL...I guess if I ask if that's black or w/cream and sugar it will begin to sound like the infamous Gardenia Thread
I have been told that the occasional cold cup of coffee helps keep the soil acid. (I'm not sure if gardenias prefer cream, powdered creamer, flavored creamer, milk, or soy milk, not to mention choice of sweetener :) )
I pulled mine last weekend. It looked dead. BIG mistake. The trunk was/is green. We'll see if it comes back. :( Chuck Hayes is my next victim, I mean, plant. :)
-Joe
P.S. And flavored coffee, I have an excellent vanilla ... Hmmmmm.
This message was edited May 19, 2007 10:35 PM
Hmmm, hazelnut maybe? Ok...bumping this up as I've got to get these babies in the ground today and I'm depending on ya'll for some wisdom...
Howdy, Chantell...
Congrats on getting some gardenias (and no, I haven't forgotten ya...will still be checking for Frostproof for you).
If you haven't already planted I'd recommend you water them in with some fish emulsion rather than feed them the Hollytone right away. That will get them off to a good start but yet not chance any burn of new roots that will be developing soon. After 10 days or so then lightly broadcast your Hollytone on the surface of the soil and scratch it in. (There is also a "Miracle Gro for Azalea, Camellia, Rhododendron" food that is excellent for gardenias if you can't find the Hollytone.)
I wouldn't mulch right away, if you do it'll only block the sun from warming the soil and contribute to "cold feet", which is not what the newly-planted gardenias like. They need warm soil to encourage root growth as well as nutrient uptake.
As for the Epsom's salts, I use it sparingly, usually as a foliar spray to encourage flowering. However, if you are planning on using the sulphur to lower your pH plus using Epsom's directly in the soil they'll be competing with each other to do their job (Epsom's will tend to raise the pH slightly, thus my recommendation to use it more as a foliar spray, and do it when the plants are well on their way).
As for your yellow leaves on your store-bought plants, that could be from over-watering, under-watering, or if it is the older leaves then perhaps a N deficiency and all those problems should disappear once they are in the ground.
Hope this finds everyone having a great day!
Happy Growing, in all the Gardens of Life!
Shoe.
Edited due to speed typing/thinking: Note: "(Epsom's will tend to raise the pH slightly,...") should've been typed as "Epsom's will tend to change the pH slightly", not raise it, but work to slightly lower it , thus no need to use the sulfur.) I apologize for my mental malfoogerty. (I sometimes type faster than I think.).
This message was edited May 26, 2007 2:45 PM
Shoe,
You ARE incredible!!! Only one is in the ground...will the fish emulsion do its job if I water the one already in the ground with it? And I know I promised not to bug you...but (and this, I hope, is the last of my questions)
1) Which do you prefer: Miracle Gro for Azalea, Camellia, Rhododendron or the Hollytone/
2) And if I'm using one of those, should I use the garden sulfer as well?
Shoe, I told you not to worry about the Griffith/Kleim/Frostproof (I've forgotten which one - LOL) esp. with all that's been going on in your corner of the world. Continuing to keep you in my prayers!! Let's see how many survive my care by next year at this time and then see if there's something I have you'd like to trade for. You are such a sweetheart, thank you again!
Chantell
Sorry for the delay in answering...I ended up planting veggie seedlings all day yesterday (and then had grilled veggies for supper.) Guess I was really "veggie out", eh!?
As for Hollytone vs Miracle Gro-etc...I've used both and have good results when using them at certain stages (and reasons).
Miracle Gro products are derived from "chemical ingredients" (and yes 'all things are chemical') but in this case I'm referring to the nutrients being offered are derived from Ammonium phosphate, Urea, Potassium phosphate, Chloride, Boric acid, etc (plus a few others). Those are readily available to the plant but don't tend to really contribute to the soil growth the plant is living in.
On the other hand, Hollytone (for acid lovers) offer its nutrients from more "natural" sources; Dehydrated manure, Feather meal, Crab meal, cocoa meal, corn gluten, cottonseed meal, dried blood, sunflower meal, kelp meal, alfalfa meal, greensand, etc. Those are sources that contribute to the life of the soil and tend to offer an ongoing/slower release nutrition. So....for me....
I used the Miracle Gro for a quick pick-me-up when plants are stressed or looking a bit sickly. The M-Gro can be applied foliarly and will immediately get to work helping the plant through stress and back to good health. I use the Hollytone for a more long-term feeding.
Lastly, before I get too long-winded (as if I haven't already, eh?), remember, Miracle-Gro products have to be used every 7-14 days whereas the Hollytone is used only twice a year. Big savings there in money and time, eh?
And now, off to the greenhouse or gardens to commence more planting.
Happy Gardening, Folks!
Shoe
Shoe - no worries you are such a great teacher, I'm happy to wait as long as I need to for you to share your exp. with us. And YOU most certainly are NOT long winded...those were wonderful explanations.
Ok...so I've got the Miracle Grow vs. Hollytone down pat. Is there a need for the garden sulfer then, when using the Hollytone? My poor teens are thinking, at this point, more plant "stuff?"
Any thoughts on messenger for plants?
Shoe - thank you again SO much...gonna print this all out and keep at home on the fridge for ref!!
Hi Chantell the yellowing this time of the year is normal. I give mine ironite and they will green right up and flower big time.
Jeri
Shoe - this was what I was wondering about:
"Ok...so I've got the Miracle Grow vs. Hollytone down pat. Is there a need for the garden sulfer then, when using the Hollytone? Any thoughts on messenger for plants?"
And yes, your thoughts on the ironite...please and thank you
Hollytone works well without having to use the sulfur unless your soil is very alkaline, then you might want to incorporate some sulfur at planting time. However, as far as I know, more often than not alkaline soils tend to be further west than you; perhaps you might be in a special pocket that has alkaline soil?
Methinks you should pick up a pH analyzer (about $12 or so) and then you'll know. And of course, you can always incorporate sphagnum peat into your planting hole which will give you a lower pH.
I've not used Messenger and am one of those that don't see the need for it. There are quite a few threads on DG with the supposed pros and cons though.
As for ironite/adding iron to the soil or plants...if you use the Miracle Gro that has iron in it already so you should save yourself the expense of purchasing iron separately. Most soils are not iron-deficient but rather tend to bind up the availability of iron to the plant so people "short cut" it by applying liquid/chelated iron directly to the plant. Too much lime in the soil, raising the pH to a more alkaline state, will make the iron in the soil unavailable. For long term availability of iron using plenty of manure, dried blood, or compost would be your best bet.
Have fun!
Shoe
Excellent, Shoe...thank you, thank you...thank you!!! I'm all done with questions for now...whew...what a relief eh? Going to combine all the helpful hints on to one sheet and print it!!!
I think you'll soon be the "Gardenia Queen" of Virginia!
Enjoy!
Shoe.
LOL and here I thought I held the Cactus Queen title for VA...(yeah, right - although I can get THOSE to bloom for me, even here)
IO1, you're welcome....glad to be of help from time to time.
And yes, aren't DG Folks the best!!!!
Happy growing, in all the gardens of Life!
Shoe
Shoe - you done good!!! My first bloom...'shooting star'
Great! I can almost smell it!
Congrats! Gardenias will make ya happy!
Shoe
Hi all, I have a Gardenia that looks worse for wear after the winter. It does have some new growth but looks no where near wanting to bloom. The one I have I think Is called 'August Beauty'. I got beautifuls blooms last year but the winter just took it's toll. I need to take a pic of her and post it so you can see it.
Any suggestions to help "perk it up"?
Thanks!
GG - shoe is a great one for suggestions on these pretties!! Maybe you could describe what exactly is going on i.e. leaf drop, yellow leaves etc. to help others in making suggestions.
I have just received (last week)2 hardy Gardenias : Kleim's. How far apart should I plant them? I am putting them in my planter next to the garage and protected. How big do they get? They are dwarfs, aren't they?
anastatia...Kleim's usually top our around 4 ft tall X 3-4 ft wide. (Plant Files shows them getting to 6-8 ft tall but perhaps that is an incorrect entry as Kleim's is well-known to be a "compact shrub".) I'd suggest planting them 3 to 3.5 ft apart if you want them to appear to be a hedge. If you want them to stand out as individual bushes plant them 4-5 ft apart.
GardenGirl, I hope your plant has revived by now. If not you might want to topdress it with some good compost/humus or the like and give it a good dose of a foliar application of a fertilizer for acid-loving plants.
Shoe.
Thanks Horseshoe. I actually went in and cut all the dead stuff and put new mulch around it and it looks much better. I don't know if I'll get an flowers in the next month or not but we'll see.
Thanks again!
yall...do gardenias need moist soil? i have mine in a container
They are very easy to overwater. Try letting it dry a bit before watering, and then water thoroughly, filling up the pot to the brim at least twice, and then let it dry a little again, down the first knuckle of your pointer finger.
is the knuckle the first bendy thing or the second (grin)
Gardenias need moisture retaining but good draining peaty potting mix in the pots ...and a similar situation in the garden....if they are interplanted with other things the other things help to shelter and drink excess water.....gardenias are jungle plants.They are pretty hungry so feed small amounts but pretty regularly (not too much in the pots)....they love cow poo....fish emulsion etc.Don't leave pots sitting in saucers unless you are prepared to ensure that you empty the saucers after heavy rain etc. :)
I just bought a gardenia at walmart ...I had to I just moved to Texas and I love the smell.
I was planning on planting it outside near the house but after reading everything in this post and the at the top I'm not sure what to do now. Gardening in Texas is different then Illinois of course in a new zone I am learning things all over again now.
Suggestions?????
oh lordy...is gardening alot differnt here in texas...don't believe the 'full sun' things on the tags....it will fry...
as for the gardenia...mine is in the shade...but i just got mine and it is in a container...i will keep watching this thread to
hear what the xperts say:)
For now mine is still in the pot it came home in and is on my back porch with the hibiscus's .... where it gets morning sun till maybe 10:30 then it is shade the rest of the day and I have been watering it almost every day from the top as most of the water comes out the bottom anyway.
I had read not to sit them where water stands at the bottom of the pot so I just check it and if it is dry down in the soil I give it some water.
Mibus2 - what type was it? Our Walmarts generally only carry the August Beauty...which does not appear to be hardy at least to my zone. There is 3 that I believe are hardy to zone 7: Shooting Star, Kleims Hardy, and Chuck Hayes
It just says Gardenia.
I just went out to check and a few of the leaves are turning brown between the veins.
too much water or too much sun?
Probably too much sun. In a climate like yours, they'll like a good bit of shade in the hot afternoons. And I think you'll have a hard time overwatering them if it's hot out (not to say it's impossible, but they are pretty thirsty plants especially if they're in a pot) If they're being overwatered, the leaves will start to turn yellow and fall off.
mibus...i have mine to where it will get morning sun and that is is...and it is doing well
I've moved it in towards the post so hopefully that will take care of too much sun. I'm going to check tomorrow since it is my day off to see just how the sun goes I thought i was in the shade by 11:30am but I could be wrong since I am not home but 2 days a week to see how the sun goes at that time of day to tell *S*
Phyllis
I've placed Elephant Ears (their pots) in front of mine - since some are in a south facing bed...seems to help.